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On April 22 2013 03:02 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:56 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 02:49 krutopatkin wrote:On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way. Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC. What did he accomplish in sc2, remind me plz? That was probably sarcasm.
No plz tell me... what did jeadong and MC accomplish in sc2, remind me plz?
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Northern Ireland27480 Posts
Didn't NA start this particular ball rolling by MLG subsidising Korean invites way back when? They did improve the tournaments no doubt, but they didn't extend the same treatment to the EU elite?
Anyway regardless, it's the invite list that annoys me personally, but many make sense I guess. The EGTL guys who aren't in Code S can't jet around to foreign tournies without damaging their improved Proleague efforts
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On April 22 2013 02:38 azzih wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
The difference is that DeMuslim now lives in USA for like 1 year. And the koreans most likely dont even speak a word english nor did they ever live there. If i name a qualifier-tournament "EU" or "NA" there should be no doubt that the players belong to this region. If not the whole region-seperation doesnt maker any sense. Its no racism if i say: I dont want to see koreans at "our" qualifiers. They have their own, Its just lame to go to lower skilled regions to get slots with less effort. The hosts should have forbidden those cheating methods and give korea instead more slots to represent their higher skill-level. If i want to see korean.only tournaments i'd watch GSL...
Yes but look at moonGlade, is anybody pointing at him to say that he's stealing money away from NA. The Chinese players don't have their own qualifier, so they get to choose. So between NA and KR (since lag to EU is pretty bad), I think the choice is obvious. And yet the Chinese players are not viewed with the same level of priority or admiration as a moonGlade because they're from Asia which to most people you might as well be Korean.
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Must say that i am impressed with Australian scene. Did not know they had so many good players. They did pretty well
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On April 22 2013 02:38 azzih wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
The difference is that DeMuslim now lives in USA for like 1 year. And the koreans most likely dont even speak a word english nor did they ever live there. If i name a qualifier-tournament "EU" or "NA" there should be no doubt that the players belong to this region. If not the whole region-seperation doesnt maker any sense. Its no racism if i say: I dont want to see koreans at "our" qualifiers. They have their own, Its just lame to go to lower skilled regions to get slots with less effort. The hosts should have forbidden those cheating methods and give korea instead more slots to represent their higher skill-level. If i want to see korean.only tournaments i'd watch GSL...
So what about Moonglade or Snute? They don't live in na at all yet no fingers are being pointed at them. Do you now see the bias? It doesn't make any sense does it!
Also, shuttle is a korean who lives in new york and plays for a american team, clarity gaming, yet people point fingers at him for winning a spot in the WCS EU when he also has been living in the us for months while playing for an american team. So by your logic, shuttle is as deserving of a spot as demuslim is.
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On April 22 2013 02:32 SayTT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:30 shmget wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
As a pure spectator of the sport - I've never played the game in a multi-player setting, and only played maybe a dozen games over the years between SC1 and SC2 - I am interested in good entertaining games with quality casting - which for me means a balance mix of educational information, humour/banter/teasing and background information about the player/teams and the scene in general.
With that in mind, the whole 'nationalist' approach seems 'foreign' to me (pun intended).
In every sport the most prestigious tournament are 'Open'. They aim to attract the very best player of the entire world, regardless of nationality, creed or other irrelevant criteria.
The fact that WCS America Qualifiers do not produce any North-American qualified players is more a reflection of the current skill level in that region. There are too few world-class level player in that region... once you removed from the player pool the top dozen that were invited, the field left is apparently to weak to compete at that level.
Creating 'quota' would do nothing to improve the skill-level of that region, not that it is in itself desirable. After all shouldn't the goal is to identify and give a viable platform to the 'best' players... not the best German player or the best Jamaican players... but the very best player for a world-class competition.
Actually by creating these 'Region', I believe that Blizzard had in mind the viewers. by insuring that there are attractive high level tournament in each region -- that attract a significant group of top-level player -- there is a chance to develop a viewer base in each region, which in turn will create an increase player base, which statistically will increase the chance of the emergence of 'local' world-class players.
As a viewer, I am thrilled with the prospect of 3 high level, comprehensible, spread-out over time world-class tournaments, that I can follow entirely without having to do a SC2 non-stop week-end marathon once in a while.
This is the best post so far in this thread.
Yeah, he has a very good point.
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect this
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Northern Ireland27480 Posts
I don't know why Snute isn't inved to EU, he'd merit it on recent form
Moonglade, the Chinese players are kind of nomads who have (or should have been) accommodated better
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On April 22 2013 03:03 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 03:02 ZenithM wrote:On April 22 2013 02:56 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 02:49 krutopatkin wrote:On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way. Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC. What did he accomplish in sc2, remind me plz? That was probably sarcasm. No plz tell me... what did jeadong and MC accomplish in sc2, remind me plz?
JD has no big achievements yet, but MC has won more in terms of prize money than anyone else (about as much as MarineKing and Parting combined).
Also i think that NA players should really step up their game. I know there is not as many Koreans in WCS EU, but that does not change the fact that EU players in general is ahead of NA players. Thorzain was able to beat Polt in a Dreamhack finals before he joined EG, Naniwa has made it to ro8 in GSL twice in a row, and Stephano was at one point considered one of the best players in the world.
I know that people like CatZ tend to say that it is because there is no proper team houses in NA, but all of these players was playing at home. Even Taeja is playing at home and he seems to be doing fairly well compared to NA players.
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On April 22 2013 03:23 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 03:03 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 03:02 ZenithM wrote:On April 22 2013 02:56 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 02:49 krutopatkin wrote:On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way. Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC. What did he accomplish in sc2, remind me plz? That was probably sarcasm. No plz tell me... what did jeadong and MC accomplish in sc2, remind me plz? JD has no big achievements yet, but MC has won more in terms of prize money than anyone else (about as much as MarineKing and Parting combined).
Thx. for the help! seems i was right!:D
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On April 22 2013 03:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't know why Snute isn't inved to EU, he'd merit it on recent form
Moonglade, the Chinese players are kind of nomads who have (or should have been) accommodated better
Because Snute chose AM as his region rather than EU. He would have of course got a seed for EU if he had chosen it.
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On April 21 2013 21:57 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 15:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:15 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 21 2013 15:12 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote:
Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad. WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about. You realize that you are a minority viewer correct? WCS EU had numbers that were on par with WCS Finals, a tournament that had zero Koreans. There is a very large audience that wants to watch foreigners play. MLG was all Korean from the top 8 on and had more viewers than WCS EU. Let's see how WCS KR compares in viewers (at least for the numbers we get to see) to WCS EU. Right now WCS KR (GSL Code S) have about 23-28k viewers everything i check. I believe WCS EU Premier qualifiers had the same amount of viewers if you counted all Streams. WCS NA Premier qualifiers had about same amount of viewers as Code S.
That's purely the english twitch stream. There is also the gom stream and the korean stream that we don't get to see numbers of.
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On April 22 2013 04:19 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:57 Prog455 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:15 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 21 2013 15:12 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote:
Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad. WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about. You realize that you are a minority viewer correct? WCS EU had numbers that were on par with WCS Finals, a tournament that had zero Koreans. There is a very large audience that wants to watch foreigners play. MLG was all Korean from the top 8 on and had more viewers than WCS EU. Let's see how WCS KR compares in viewers (at least for the numbers we get to see) to WCS EU. Right now WCS KR (GSL Code S) have about 23-28k viewers everything i check. I believe WCS EU Premier qualifiers had the same amount of viewers if you counted all Streams. WCS NA Premier qualifiers had about same amount of viewers as Code S. That's purely the english twitch stream. There is also the gom stream and the korean stream that we don't get to see numbers of.
Also GSL Code S is on in the morning for the EU, i dont know about NA. Most people are at work or school. You would have to add vod-numbers to your equation to get a really good and accurate numbers.
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On April 22 2013 04:22 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 21:57 Prog455 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:15 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 21 2013 15:12 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote:
Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad. WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about. You realize that you are a minority viewer correct? WCS EU had numbers that were on par with WCS Finals, a tournament that had zero Koreans. There is a very large audience that wants to watch foreigners play. MLG was all Korean from the top 8 on and had more viewers than WCS EU. Let's see how WCS KR compares in viewers (at least for the numbers we get to see) to WCS EU. Right now WCS KR (GSL Code S) have about 23-28k viewers everything i check. I believe WCS EU Premier qualifiers had the same amount of viewers if you counted all Streams. WCS NA Premier qualifiers had about same amount of viewers as Code S. That's purely the english twitch stream. There is also the gom stream and the korean stream that we don't get to see numbers of. Also GSL Code S is on in the morning for the EU, i dont know about NA. Most people are at work or school. You would have to add vod-numbers to your equation to get a really good and accurate numbers.
In the US, GSL starts extremely early, before most people are awake.
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On April 22 2013 04:24 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:22 BlueFlames wrote:On April 22 2013 04:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 21:57 Prog455 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:15 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 21 2013 15:12 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote:
Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad. WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about. You realize that you are a minority viewer correct? WCS EU had numbers that were on par with WCS Finals, a tournament that had zero Koreans. There is a very large audience that wants to watch foreigners play. MLG was all Korean from the top 8 on and had more viewers than WCS EU. Let's see how WCS KR compares in viewers (at least for the numbers we get to see) to WCS EU. Right now WCS KR (GSL Code S) have about 23-28k viewers everything i check. I believe WCS EU Premier qualifiers had the same amount of viewers if you counted all Streams. WCS NA Premier qualifiers had about same amount of viewers as Code S. That's purely the english twitch stream. There is also the gom stream and the korean stream that we don't get to see numbers of. Also GSL Code S is on in the morning for the EU, i dont know about NA. Most people are at work or school. You would have to add vod-numbers to your equation to get a really good and accurate numbers. In the US, GSL starts extremely early, before most people are awake.
I get to watch the last 2 matches while I am making my coffee. I would love it if an event was on when I wasn't asleep or at work.
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Honestly, im not sure why everyones upset.
Theyre choosing to play in this WCS, instead of the korean one (GSL)
I dont see why its an issue. I get to see incredible games in all 3 regions. Regardless of country theyre from, color of their skin, or lifestyle. I get to see 3 REGIONS of better starcraft, and better games.
The burden isnt on Blizzard, or MLG, or anyone to "handicap" koreans for playing better. They arent GIFTED any more than any other race. They have a superior lifestyle, of which, some choose to go to korea and play -- but often times dont keep up with their strict practice routines and lifestyle.
So, youre going to give a free cookie to americans for being lazy? Sorry, Put in the time and effort, and youll improve. That simple.
Other races have shown they have players that can not only take games off koreans, but flat out beat them. Look at grubby in wc3.
Let the tournament be played, Rage when shit is bad (512 format, not letting pros in, no way to check for cheating) and enjoy the GREAT MATCHES WE WILL SEE.
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On April 22 2013 04:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:24 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On April 22 2013 04:22 BlueFlames wrote:On April 22 2013 04:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 21:57 Prog455 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:19 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:15 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 21 2013 15:12 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2013 15:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote:
Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad. WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about. You realize that you are a minority viewer correct? WCS EU had numbers that were on par with WCS Finals, a tournament that had zero Koreans. There is a very large audience that wants to watch foreigners play. MLG was all Korean from the top 8 on and had more viewers than WCS EU. Let's see how WCS KR compares in viewers (at least for the numbers we get to see) to WCS EU. Right now WCS KR (GSL Code S) have about 23-28k viewers everything i check. I believe WCS EU Premier qualifiers had the same amount of viewers if you counted all Streams. WCS NA Premier qualifiers had about same amount of viewers as Code S. That's purely the english twitch stream. There is also the gom stream and the korean stream that we don't get to see numbers of. Also GSL Code S is on in the morning for the EU, i dont know about NA. Most people are at work or school. You would have to add vod-numbers to your equation to get a really good and accurate numbers. In the US, GSL starts extremely early, before most people are awake. I get to watch the last 2 matches while I am making my coffee. I would love it if an event was on when I wasn't asleep or at work.
Well sadly that will never happen for korean events, because they are lucky enough to be on korean tv regularly, but i also would love to watch a GSL-finals on a Saturday or Friday evening.
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Wooot have a qualifier for NA and only koreans make it. Good job WCS you're really boosting the NA scene!
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On April 22 2013 02:38 azzih wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
The difference is that DeMuslim now lives in USA for like 1 year. And the koreans most likely dont even speak a word english nor did they ever live there. If i name a qualifier-tournament "EU" or "NA" there should be no doubt that the players belong to this region. If not the whole region-seperation doesnt maker any sense. Its no racism if i say: I dont want to see koreans at "our" qualifiers. They have their own, Its just lame to go to lower skilled regions to get slots with less effort. The hosts should have forbidden those cheating methods and give korea instead more slots to represent their higher skill-level. If i want to see korean.only tournaments i'd watch GSL...
So youd rather have the GRAND FINALS (be it 32 players, idk how many it is, honestly) be say, 12 top tier koreans, 6 top tier white people (im sure some from EU/NA can compete) and 14 people that are completely outclassed by those? No. I dont want to see that.
I dont want americans hands held. They need to play better.
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EPT
