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I think there is underlying xenophobic racism here.
Chinese players are also foreigner players. Also, they don't have their own WCS qualifier so they are entitled to pick whatever one they want to qualify for, as all players of all nationalities should be entitled to. Yet some people are saying they shouldn't play in the WCS NA qualifiers.
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
Blizzard already said anybody can play in any qualifier. This isn't an american qualifer. It's just one of 3 global qualifiers anybody can enter. The naming of the qualifier tbh was a bit shortsighted.
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On April 22 2013 01:21 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:04 Emzeeshady wrote:On April 22 2013 01:03 Bagi wrote:On April 22 2013 00:56 SayTT wrote:On April 22 2013 00:47 Bagi wrote:On April 22 2013 00:40 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 00:35 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
They took our job ! This!! says it all  Yeah because it's all xenophobia, not people trying to create a sustainable SC2 scene. Because if you think people will forever watch KR vs KR, well, with the way things are evolving I can only hope you are right. Speak for yourself, the player pool in EU is better than ever. If we disregard the Korean and had all the Americans in WCS NA try to qualify in WCS EU, I bet that no NA player would qualify. I am from EU and I do agree that the EU WCS is looking really good. The NA WCS however is an utter and complete joke, which really hurts the scene overall as a big part (majority?) of the viewers come from NA. Isn't there still about a 50/50 ratio of foreigners to Koreans in the main tournament? That is what Blizzard thinks we want to see. For season 1 sure, but the next season is when the shit truly hits the fan. 16 players were seeded purely because of their placement in NA WCS 2012, not because they can compete against koreans. Unless Blizzard changes the rules, season 2 will be more than half Koreans at the very least. Every season after that, their share will only grow.
At some point there will be a reckoning for EG-TL and Axiom. Close down their korean teamhouses and move all players to NA or drop most players from WCS NA. Before that decision is made public there is no way to tell how many koreans there will be in US Premier League in the future.
The question is will the decision have to be made this year or next.
On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
Blizzard already said anybody can play in any qualifier. This isn't an american qualifer. It's just one of 3 global qualifiers anybody can enter. The naming of the qualifier tbh was a bit shortsighted.
Hmm i actually like this idea... like there should be something like: WCS GSL Code S, WCS OSL, WCS MLG Premier League, and WCS ESL Premier league.
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On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
I think there is underlying xenophobic racism here.
Chinese players are also foreigner players. Also, they don't have their own WCS qualifier so they are entitled to pick whatever one they want to qualify for, as all players of all nationalities should be entitled to. Yet some people are saying they shouldn't play in the WCS NA qualifiers.
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
Blizzard already said anybody can play in any qualifier. This isn't an american qualifer. It's just one of 3 global qualifiers anybody can enter. The naming of the qualifier tbh was a bit shortsighted.
Well the Chinese players showed up late and are now claiming that they were on time, which appears to be incorrect. They are posting some selectively cropped chats with the admins claiming they were "good to go" but MLG said that was for the "late cue" if players did not show up.
Demuslim lives in NA, got a work visa and is invested in the NA scene. No one has a problem with Polt or Violet. People want players who are going to get invested in the NA scene, rather than come for the final event to pick up the prize money and then jet back to Korea.
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Would be nice to see some locals..
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On April 22 2013 01:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
I think there is underlying xenophobic racism here.
Chinese players are also foreigner players. Also, they don't have their own WCS qualifier so they are entitled to pick whatever one they want to qualify for, as all players of all nationalities should be entitled to. Yet some people are saying they shouldn't play in the WCS NA qualifiers.
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
Blizzard already said anybody can play in any qualifier. This isn't an american qualifer. It's just one of 3 global qualifiers anybody can enter. The naming of the qualifier tbh was a bit shortsighted. Well the Chinese players showed up late and are now claiming that they were on time, which appears to be incorrect. They are posting some selectively cropped chats with the admins claiming they were "good to go" but MLG said that was for the "late cue" if players did not show up. Demuslim lives in NA, got a work visa and is invested in the NA scene. No one has a problem with Polt or Violet. People want players who are going to get invested in the NA scene, rather than come for the final event to pick up the prize money and then jet back to Korea.
If the Chinese players showed up late then they should be rightly D/Q. But the fact remains that people are still singling them out whereas a player like demuslim who isn't american has no fingers pointed at him.
I assume you've never seen a gom tv code S or Code A match? or indeed a proleague match. Because if koreans win prize money at the WCS NA or indeed at mlg, they are taking that money to korea to help them survive (i.e buy food and essentials) and are able to participate in future tournaments for our entertainment. At mlg, those koreans player who won prize money, took that money to korea and it enabled them to buy food etc so they can partipate in code s and code a which was televised for free on gom tv for worldwide fans including north american fans!!!!
So when people make ignorant shortsighted comments and say koreans who win prize money take it back to korea and it doesn't do anything for the international scene is quite unbelievable.
There have been top NA/EU players who have watched the koreans play (in code s) and have been inspired by players like mvp, mma, polt, nestea, life, mc, parting, rain, flash, jaedong, bisu, stork etc. and thus have committed themselves to the life of a progamer. They have also been inspired by players such as stephano, idra, incontrol (guy is amazing), tlo, dimag, mana, naniwa, demuslim etc.
Please don't say such shortsighted comments that don't make any sense at all!
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Woohoo Alicia!I hope Jaedong qualifies today
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On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
I think there is underlying xenophobic racism here.
Chinese players are also foreigner players. Also, they don't have their own WCS qualifier so they are entitled to pick whatever one they want to qualify for, as all players of all nationalities should be entitled to. Yet some people are saying they shouldn't play in the WCS NA qualifiers.
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
Blizzard already said anybody can play in any qualifier. This isn't an american qualifer. It's just one of 3 global qualifiers anybody can enter. The naming of the qualifier tbh was a bit shortsighted.
It's always been this way. There have been so many occasions where Sen was the only foreigner left in a tournament, and we had people say things like "I don't want to watch anymore because there are no foreigners left". Chinese players are only treated as foreigners as a last resort.
What's funny is that no one in the history of SC2 ever complained about EU players coming to steal NA money, when Naniwa came and won an MLG for example before Koreans started showing up. The first MLG was won by Jinro, no one complained that it was an EU player taking NA money away. Catz didn't rant about EU players taking NA money hindering the growth of the local scene. No one complained about Stephano taking away the cash from IPL3, or 2 Lone Star Clashes.
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People didn't complain because those tourneys weren't directly tied to a global tourney seeded by region. This one is, and Blizzard has branded the regions geographically, so the expectation is to think of them geographically. I love watching Korean players, but I totally understand what the fuss is about.
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On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote:
Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.
So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.
I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.
I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.
I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.
It's really hard being a fan of the North American scene? More like it's really hard to be a fan of the North American scene. The play is just so terrible. You want your story line? Too bad. Fact of the matter is is that they're trash compared to the rest of the professional scene and if you really want to support them, you'll have to take their two wins in the lower bracket of an MLG qualifier to be the highlight of your e-sports watching career.
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What people seem to forget is that all those players are on "foreign" teams meaning USA based. They run off sponsor money and those teams may say "play where you want" but they just love the fact that they can show their players in USA. This is their priority they use players to display their sponsors so they value USA tournaments way way higher. For same reason there are no Kespa players there, they have Korean sponsors and they will not get any money to travel to another country which is not in the interest of their sponsors. The whole region locking, etc is totally different subject. From business point of view EG, Axiom Korean players are more "valuable" playing in USA.
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people shouldnt complain about korean dominance... Instead they should try to practise harder and more efficent.
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As a pure spectator of the sport - I've never played the game in a multi-player setting, and only played maybe a dozen games over the years between SC1 and SC2 - I am interested in good entertaining games with quality casting - which for me means a balance mix of educational information, humour/banter/teasing and background information about the player/teams and the scene in general.
With that in mind, the whole 'nationalist' approach seems 'foreign' to me (pun intended).
In every sport the most prestigious tournament are 'Open'. They aim to attract the very best player of the entire world, regardless of nationality, creed or other irrelevant criteria.
The fact that WCS America Qualifiers do not produce any North-American qualified players is more a reflection of the current skill level in that region. There are too few world-class level player in that region... once you removed from the player pool the top dozen that were invited, the field left is apparently to weak to compete at that level.
Creating 'quota' would do nothing to improve the skill-level of that region, not that it is in itself desirable. After all shouldn't the goal is to identify and give a viable platform to the 'best' players... not the best German player or the best Jamaican players... but the very best player for a world-class competition.
Actually by creating these 'Region', I believe that Blizzard had in mind the viewers. by insuring that there are attractive high level tournament in each region -- that attract a significant group of top-level player -- there is a chance to develop a viewer base in each region, which in turn will create an increase player base, which statistically will increase the chance of the emergence of 'local' world-class players.
As a viewer, I am thrilled with the prospect of 3 high level, comprehensible, spread-out over time world-class tournaments, that I can follow entirely without having to do a SC2 non-stop week-end marathon once in a while.
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On April 22 2013 02:30 shmget wrote:
As a pure spectator of the sport - I've never played the game in a multi-player setting, and only played maybe a dozen games over the years between SC1 and SC2 - I am interested in good entertaining games with quality casting - which for me means a balance mix of educational information, humour/banter/teasing and background information about the player/teams and the scene in general.
With that in mind, the whole 'nationalist' approach seems 'foreign' to me (pun intended).
In every sport the most prestigious tournament are 'Open'. They aim to attract the very best player of the entire world, regardless of nationality, creed or other irrelevant criteria.
The fact that WCS America Qualifiers do not produce any North-American qualified players is more a reflection of the current skill level in that region. There are too few world-class level player in that region... once you removed from the player pool the top dozen that were invited, the field left is apparently to weak to compete at that level.
Creating 'quota' would do nothing to improve the skill-level of that region, not that it is in itself desirable. After all shouldn't the goal is to identify and give a viable platform to the 'best' players... not the best German player or the best Jamaican players... but the very best player for a world-class competition.
Actually by creating these 'Region', I believe that Blizzard had in mind the viewers. by insuring that there are attractive high level tournament in each region -- that attract a significant group of top-level player -- there is a chance to develop a viewer base in each region, which in turn will create an increase player base, which statistically will increase the chance of the emergence of 'local' world-class players.
As a viewer, I am thrilled with the prospect of 3 high level, comprehensible, spread-out over time world-class tournaments, that I can follow entirely without having to do a SC2 non-stop week-end marathon once in a while.
This is the best post so far in this thread.
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On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
The difference is that DeMuslim now lives in USA for like 1 year. And the koreans most likely dont even speak a word english nor did they ever live there.
If i name a qualifier-tournament "EU" or "NA" there should be no doubt that the players belong to this region. If not the whole region-seperation doesnt maker any sense.
Its no racism if i say: I dont want to see koreans at "our" qualifiers. They have their own, Its just lame to go to lower skilled regions to get slots with less effort. The hosts should have forbidden those cheating methods and give korea instead more slots to represent their higher skill-level. If i want to see korean.only tournaments i'd watch GSL...
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Really dissapointing, WCS is supposed to nourish the country's scene, not give koreans another set of spots...
If you're going to copy the league of legends LCS, atleast do it right!
Even at the olympics, even though there are countries that are basically completely useless in some events, they still get to qualify.
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On April 22 2013 02:38 azzih wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:29 Xercen wrote:
What i don't understand is people like demuslim isn't getting any fingers pointing at him for playing WCS NA (he is English), yet any non white people/persons, are getting this xenophobic nonsense.
The difference is that DeMuslim now lives in USA for like 1 year. And the koreans most likely dont even speak a word english nor did they ever live there. If i name a qualifier-tournament "EU" or "NA" there should be no doubt that the players belong to this region. If not the whole region-seperation doesnt maker any sense. Its no racism if i say: I dont want to see koreans at "our" qualifiers. They have their own, Its just lame to go to lower skilled regions to get slots with less effort. The hosts should have forbidden those cheating methods and give korea instead more slots to represent their higher skill-level. If i want to see korean.only tournaments i'd watch GSL...
It's not fair to say most Korean's competing the the NA and EU qualifiers don't know a word of English. Most of them can certainly make themselves understood in English even if they often prefer not to for whatever reason.
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On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way.
Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC.
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On April 22 2013 02:49 krutopatkin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way. Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC.
What did he accomplish in sc2, remind me plz?
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On April 22 2013 02:56 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:49 krutopatkin wrote:On April 21 2013 21:07 revoN wrote:
I wonder why JaeDong didn't get an invite when a player like NesTea did. But I guess the entire invite system is broken. I'd rather they all qualified the hard (or easy for most Koreans) way. Yes especially considering the huge amount of achievements Jaedong has, unlike MC. What did he accomplish in sc2, remind me plz?
That was probably sarcasm.
Edit: Lol nevermind he didn't precise "SC2", so I guess that could have been serious.
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EPT
