On April 21 2013 16:00 Barta wrote: I can't really wrap my head around NA players complaining about only koreans qualifying for WCS NA. All of the koreans left in the qualifier are on non-korean teams ( even all NA teams ?). So either the teams think that is a good idea to have koreans in the WCS NA or they dont care about their own player as long as they are not korean.
I don't think koreans should have been invited to the WCS NA, but complaining about koreans and have your own koreans qualifying is pretty hypocritical in my opinion.
You can't blame teams for doing what is best for their sponsors and players. You can blame organizers for making a terrible rule-set.
Not arguing the rule-set isn't terrible as it is now, but if they made it residential locked the same player would qualify. Making it only accessible by player born in NA/SA would be even more terrible than it is now
If the point is to develop NA scene then residency requirement may be good enough. As long as those players stay in NA, practice in a team house there and play the local ladder they develop the scene. On the other hand if all they do is stay in Korea and have a two week holiday for prize-money grab then not so much.
Not sure why anyone would even mention the EU qualifier in comparison to this. With Koreans like Alicia, JYP, Oz, CranK, TheStC, Heart, Revival, JD, Zenio and others the level of competition is ridiculous. Incomparable to the few Koreans who were playing in the EU qualifier who could never hold a candle to these players on top of having to deal with what is by all accounts much worse latency from Korea. What should be apparent however between these two tournaments is how Korean domination has crippled the foreigner scene in the Americas. Every NA tournament is dominated by amazing Korean players which is great for the tournament organizers who draw amazing viewership but starving to the home scene. People say the NA players don't deserve the prize money because they are so bad, but seriously it isn't about the prize money, it is about growth.
All we care about are the story lines that could be fostered by this sort of competition, but instead we are given more of the same. Go ahead and shift the majority of the prize money back to the GSL, they have earned it, but next season there need to be some serious changes.
On April 21 2013 15:07 JJH777 wrote: Expected and good news. I am not even slightly interested in watching WCS EU aside from the days MVP plays and even then watching him play with a huge amount of lag will be very sad.
WCS EU was one of the better tournaments I can recall, but hey people have different tastes
I didn't watch any of the WCS tournaments aside from Korea, Asia, and the finals. I know it got a lot of hype for it's production values and storyline but I don't really care about either of those things at least not for the players that were at that event. Even for GSL I almost always mute the stream and switch tabs in-between games because that is all I care about.
That was the best and most entertaining tournament I have ever watched.
doesn't sound exciting at all.. start watching some GSL or SPL man
I watch all SC2 leagues.
so... you've watched GSL and SPL, MLG...etc., and yet you think EU qualifiers was "the best and most entertaining tournament you've ever watched......ok....... lmao
Lol. He means wsc 2012 eu.
So, all this time when you have said that mgl hots tournament got viewers; you have been comparing it to wsc 2013 eu qualifications that got +40k viewers...
On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote: Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.
So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.
I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.
I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.
I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.
Fuck, get your infos about the players and stop bitching. There is no more or less story involved in NA players. Ignorance and stupiditiy really is rising. Don't want it and leave us alone, seriously.
On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote: Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.
So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.
I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.
I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.
I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.
Well I guess I can understand where you are coming from somewhat, but it's not like the Koreans are mindless robots with no personality. To the contrary, many of them have very unique and interesting personalities, and many of them do put on a good show (not just play, but also showmanship).
Anyways, here's to a great showing by Axiom, and hopefully Heart and Miya can rally in the LB tomorrow.
I don't think you're trying to paint me in a negative light, but to defend my point I agree, there are plenty of koreans with a ton of personality. In fact I'd argue that all of them are interesting in some way.
But we should be seeing players like QXC, Nony, and Fitzy representing North America rather than STC Miya and Crank. I don't think many would argue that the latter are currently... Better I guess, but I want to cheer on the hometown heroes. Yeah, so maybe the gameplay elitists wouldn't want to watch WCS NA at that point, but why should we be stuck watching our foreign hopes in streamed online team league cups where in order to stay competitive they have to recruit Korean players anyway?
I love Korean tournaments, but I would love to have a single North American tournament with MLG production levels that features only North American players even once a year. I don't really think that's too much to ask.
No we should not see fucking QXC, NonY or Fitze represent America or for that matter the region NA they chose in a high profile 250 000$ tournament. No one wants to see another Ro32 MLG 3-0 sweep by Koreans. If there are Americans worthy of getting that spot, they will get their spot and they will not lose horribly.
On April 21 2013 16:20 Champloo wrote: Well, we just have to wait for next year, where Blizzard hopefully will get it right.
This WCS "NA" is a joke so far and I believe by season 3 there will be 32 out of 32 Koreans in Premier Division.
Yeah, actually this sounds like a good plan. If there are 32 Koreans in WCS NA, there is no need to play in on NA server, there will be less lag on KR. Furthermore, the onsite rounds can be also played in KR to save some travel expenses.
Because the Koreans on WCS NA would be still less skilled on average compared to WCS KR, more and more eSF players will move to WCS NA, and we will have:
WCS NA = eFS + EG + TL + Axiom = old GSL WCS KR = Kespa = old OSL
Feel bad for Demuslim... Seems pretty likely he would have qualified easily for EU (or even would have gotten invited), and seems pretty likely he will not qualify for AM. And to top it all off, he's a better player than at least several of the players invited.
Edit: And if he doesn't qualify, it will most likely be exclusively due to losses to "teammates" :S
On April 21 2013 16:20 Champloo wrote: Well, we just have to wait for next year, where Blizzard hopefully will get it right.
This WCS "NA" is a joke so far and I believe by season 3 there will be 32 out of 32 Koreans in Premier Division.
Yeah, actually this sounds like a good plan. If there are 32 Koreans in WCS NA, there is no need to play in on NA server, there will be less lag on KR. Furthermore, the onsite rounds can be also played in KR to save some travel expenses.
Because the Koreans on WCS NA would be still less skilled on average compared to WCS KR, more and more eSF players will move to WCS NA, and we will have:
WCS NA = eFS + EG + TL + Axiom = old GSL WCS KR = Kespa = old OSL
Then we will have GSL vs OSL Season Finals.
Sick!
Yes, and after the first season of that, the viewership will drop tenfold, the prize money/team sponsorships will soon follow, and then the players will move on to LoL. Awesome plan. :D
It's unfortunate. If WCS stays how it is, non-korean Starcraft II will most likely end with our current generation of pros. Theres just no way to make a living off of it.
I hope I'm wrong! And I love watching koreans play anyway, but it is nice seeing foreigners.
-Region lock it based on teams. Teams will be required to have their members maintain an active ladder presence in the region they choose to play in. I have no idea how they'd enforce it, more conceptual than anything (free agents get free choice) -Disallow team switching past a certain point in a yearly season -Give more money to the regional finals of the region that won the last WCS, second highest to the region that placed closer to first than the other region. tie breakers if necessary.
This does quite a few things: 1- Breeds pride. Even if you don't win WCS, you want your highest ranking regional representative to take it for more possible money. 2- Forces commitment. Being locked in to regions/teams for a year is a huge commitment, and those that don't want to do it simply wont. Helps to make players care. 3- Allows us North American fans to have our league that we care about but doesn't hurt anyone else's viewing pleasure 4- Increases quality of game play. By forcing players to play with others in the same region, you increase overall quality. 5- Allows the option to have true LCS-like events completely offline with amazing production values.
The important thing I want to point to is my number 3. I don't understand what us wanting a North American populated North American Qualifier has any bearing on those of you who want to see Koreans play. Just simply don't watch the North American Qualifier?
Nobody who is for a North American populated qualifier wants to take away from other players. That's all Blizzard's doing and CatZ even said it in his state of the game address that he didn't care if the prize money was shit compared to Korea/EU. Give it all to them for all I care, but give us an opportunity to make names for ourselves, even if it's only within our own scene. In time the NA scene will start to grow, just like the EU scene will continue to grow, just like the KR scene will continue to... do whatever it's been doing.
So much animosity and elitism when all a lot of us want is the ability to watch our local pros stand proud in victory every now and again.
On April 21 2013 16:37 Type|NarutO wrote: No we should not see fucking QXC, NonY or Fitze represent America or for that matter the region NA they chose in a high profile 250 000$ tournament. No one wants to see another Ro32 MLG 3-0 sweep by Koreans. If there are Americans worthy of getting that spot, they will get their spot and they will not lose horribly.
I guess seeing code B Koreans is much better There's really very little reason to watch this when you can watch GSL. 4 hours/day is already more time than most people should be spending on this, even if it's only half watching it on the other monitor.
On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote: Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.
So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.
I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.
I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.
I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.
Fuck, get your infos about the players and stop bitching. There is no more or less story involved in NA players. Ignorance and stupiditiy really is rising. Don't want it and leave us alone, seriously.
On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote: Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.
So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.
I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.
I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.
I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.
Well I guess I can understand where you are coming from somewhat, but it's not like the Koreans are mindless robots with no personality. To the contrary, many of them have very unique and interesting personalities, and many of them do put on a good show (not just play, but also showmanship).
Anyways, here's to a great showing by Axiom, and hopefully Heart and Miya can rally in the LB tomorrow.
I don't think you're trying to paint me in a negative light, but to defend my point I agree, there are plenty of koreans with a ton of personality. In fact I'd argue that all of them are interesting in some way.
But we should be seeing players like QXC, Nony, and Fitzy representing North America rather than STC Miya and Crank. I don't think many would argue that the latter are currently... Better I guess, but I want to cheer on the hometown heroes. Yeah, so maybe the gameplay elitists wouldn't want to watch WCS NA at that point, but why should we be stuck watching our foreign hopes in streamed online team league cups where in order to stay competitive they have to recruit Korean players anyway?
I love Korean tournaments, but I would love to have a single North American tournament with MLG production levels that features only North American players even once a year. I don't really think that's too much to ask.
No we should not see fucking QXC, NonY or Fitze represent America or for that matter the region NA they chose in a high profile 250 000$ tournament. No one wants to see another Ro32 MLG 3-0 sweep by Koreans. If there are Americans worthy of getting that spot, they will get their spot and they will not lose horribly.
So aside from the fact that I don't think my posts warranted any of that insulting bullshit you spouted, I'm also not saying a goddamned thing about money.
Never did I say NA pros needed the same chance to win the same money that a korean player should have the chance to win. I do however think that in a tournament that's meant to represent us, we should have the opportunity to have our players do that.
And for the record, I would fucking love to see QXC, Nony and Fitzy take 3 spots in the region they live in, and quite possibly go out 0-3 in the wcs finals because they fucking made it there fighting their peers. I would watch every single game where they get demolished by Life, MC and MVP because I am proud of them. They play on my server. They live on my continent. They are people I can play if I get good enough. Don't underestimate the viewership and prestige these players could earn themselves and esports as a whole regardless of whether or not they go out 0-3 to a superior Korean player in the finals.
EPT
There's really very little reason to watch this when you can watch GSL. 4 hours/day is already more time than most people should be spending on this, even if it's only half watching it on the other monitor.
