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On April 21 2013 21:58 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:45 Zarahtra wrote:On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. Totally disagree, they should region lock it so that people contributing to each scene are in the pool. If Korean players, such as Code A or Code B feel their chances are better in NA, they should start contributing to the NA scene, and by that raising the competition and skill level of the whole of NA. Just swooping into each scene and taking all the money just fucks up the scenes that are already behind. If you want NA and EU to compete in any realistic manner, at some point a rope has to be thrown and the scenes given chance to develop. So should the NBA divide their money and fame evenly between Europe, USA and Asia? Should NBA players go to Korea and raise the Basketball competition level there so that the scene there can develop?
Bad comparison. Blizzard is more like FIBA, and the NBA would be more like Kespa. FIBA does a good job of promoting international basketball, and the NBA actually goes out of its way to promote the game to other markets. I think that the international community would be amazed if Kespa did half of what the NBA does to promote the game internationally.
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I hope Nony makes it, he deserves it.
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On April 21 2013 21:36 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. My opinion exactly. But even as it is, it is already a slap in the face of every GSL participant that these two tournaments are weighed the same. There are at least 30 GSL players who are all better than the third best player in WCS NA (only HerO and Polt can be considered Code S level) and yet the price pool is the same. It is like giving the same money and reputation to the NBA and the German basketball League.
I disagree, while the code A and code S format is brutal, plenty of these guys have what it takes to stand with the best. We haven't seen it as much in Hots, but there are those who were able to have solid results in wol.
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On April 21 2013 21:45 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. Uh this was a pretty offensive thing to say, both for the Special Olympics and to NA pros. And anyways, prizes are commensurate with the fans, not the skill of the players. If Korea WCS has 5x as many viewers as NA WCS, then yes, the winner of Korea WCS should get 5x the money. I will say that WCS is trying to walk the fine line between cultivating a foreign audience and providing the highest quality of games. Some fans are resisting this urge to cheer for any Korean, but I think if NA fans can get behind rooting for players like Polt or Nestea as their representative, this can work to make the regions more competitive. Empirically, the regions are NOT competitive if we take a hard line on residency. Korea will win, like they won WCS last year and win WCG every year. I think it would help if these players made a stronger effort to say they want to be the NA representative and not just for money or because the competition is easier. This isn't unprecedented in sports. Lionel Messi is the face of both Argentine soccer and FC Barcelona. Pau Gasol is the go-to guy for Spanish basketball and the Los Angeles Lakers. Maria Sharapova represented Russia in the Olympics but has lived in the United States for 3/4 of her life (in fairness, many US tennis fans are NOT happy with Sharapova).
I feels like majority of foreign eSports fans/players think that foreign scene deserves to be gifted a "bailout" for their lack of skill. All this stuff about difficulty of "breaking out" and lack of "motivation $" is ridiculous. It is much easier to get signed as a ""pro"" *cough* *cough* sc2 player than it is to get drafted or signed by an NFL or NBA team.
Football is the biggest sport in the US, however there is only one professional league that hires 1696 players. However, there is a huge following and development system set in place. From before middle school there are leagues for toddlers, one in almost every township. Most middle school programs have a team. All high schools have a team. Division 1-3 universities have a program. All these programs contain over 50 players and over 100 universities per division.
Many of my friends dedicated everything to the sport only to meet the dead end at high school or college.
The professional scene is over saturated, the prize pool is too spread out.
The NA/EU scene is more like college football, where fans cheer for their local/educational experiences. Quality and skill isn't there, but it is in development.
Kr scene is more like the NFL, where the weak are quickly exposed and purged out and hidden talents spring up.
Making the prize pool the same across regions is outrageous and the cause of Korean migration.
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On April 21 2013 22:08 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:58 Fenrax wrote:On April 21 2013 21:45 Zarahtra wrote:On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. Totally disagree, they should region lock it so that people contributing to each scene are in the pool. If Korean players, such as Code A or Code B feel their chances are better in NA, they should start contributing to the NA scene, and by that raising the competition and skill level of the whole of NA. Just swooping into each scene and taking all the money just fucks up the scenes that are already behind. If you want NA and EU to compete in any realistic manner, at some point a rope has to be thrown and the scenes given chance to develop. So should the NBA divide their money and fame evenly between Europe, USA and Asia? Should NBA players go to Korea and raise the Basketball competition level there so that the scene there can develop? Bad comparison. Blizzard is more like FIBA, and the NBA would be more like Kespa. FIBA does a good job of promoting international basketball, and the NBA actually goes out of its way to promote the game to other markets. I think that the international community would be amazed if Kespa did half of what the NBA does to promote the game internationally.
except kespa would get almost no benefit from doing such a thing, other than maybe getting more stream subscribers at most. the nba does it and is worth it to them because of all the merchandising revenue.
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On April 21 2013 22:38 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 22:08 Branman wrote:On April 21 2013 21:58 Fenrax wrote:On April 21 2013 21:45 Zarahtra wrote:On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. Totally disagree, they should region lock it so that people contributing to each scene are in the pool. If Korean players, such as Code A or Code B feel their chances are better in NA, they should start contributing to the NA scene, and by that raising the competition and skill level of the whole of NA. Just swooping into each scene and taking all the money just fucks up the scenes that are already behind. If you want NA and EU to compete in any realistic manner, at some point a rope has to be thrown and the scenes given chance to develop. So should the NBA divide their money and fame evenly between Europe, USA and Asia? Should NBA players go to Korea and raise the Basketball competition level there so that the scene there can develop? Bad comparison. Blizzard is more like FIBA, and the NBA would be more like Kespa. FIBA does a good job of promoting international basketball, and the NBA actually goes out of its way to promote the game to other markets. I think that the international community would be amazed if Kespa did half of what the NBA does to promote the game internationally. except kespa would get almost no benefit from doing such a thing, other than maybe getting more stream subscribers at most. the nba does it and is worth it to them because of all the merchandising revenue.
Agreed, which is why Blizzard is the one who has to work hard at promoting the international scene.
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Yankees are overreacting... these are the qualifiers.. did u really think NA/AU/Chinese semi proplayers could compete against so many Proleague koreans... u must be kidding me. Yes some have a chance but that is basically it.
The koreans deserve these spots if they win the qualifiers. NA-peeps should practise harder and stream less (just like ESF players have to step up to keep on par with kespa). This is pro esports and not christmas, there are no presents in pro esports.
Edit : Oh, and if u still think its unfair that better players get a code s spot over up and cumming semipros then go and whine at EG-management, as most koreans are EG anyway .. nuffsaid!
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On April 21 2013 22:08 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 21:58 Fenrax wrote:On April 21 2013 21:45 Zarahtra wrote:On April 21 2013 21:14 Pedrombom wrote:
If you want NA players only to play in their qualifiers, the prize pool would have to be massively reduced. Compared to the Korean qualifiers, NA's is like the special olympics. 100k prize pool to low tier players is a slap in the face to Koreans when they have to compete against high tier players. Îf this qualifier was NA only with low caliber players and the prize pool was something like 5-10k, there would be no problem. Totally disagree, they should region lock it so that people contributing to each scene are in the pool. If Korean players, such as Code A or Code B feel their chances are better in NA, they should start contributing to the NA scene, and by that raising the competition and skill level of the whole of NA. Just swooping into each scene and taking all the money just fucks up the scenes that are already behind. If you want NA and EU to compete in any realistic manner, at some point a rope has to be thrown and the scenes given chance to develop. So should the NBA divide their money and fame evenly between Europe, USA and Asia? Should NBA players go to Korea and raise the Basketball competition level there so that the scene there can develop? Bad comparison. Blizzard is more like FIBA, and the NBA would be more like Kespa. FIBA does a good job of promoting international basketball, and the NBA actually goes out of its way to promote the game to other markets. I think that the international community would be amazed if Kespa did half of what the NBA does to promote the game internationally.
also why would an american company wanting to run a sport in america sponsor that sport in a different country? If you want a league in america you put money in america
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I do not understand this whining. Even if Blizzard would have invited more NA players for the NA Code S, they would've been 2-0'ed in every game in the seasonal finals anyways; so where is the point? If NA players want more spots, they will have to earn them.
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On April 21 2013 23:00 SoulHarvester wrote:
I do not understand this whining. Even if Blizzard would have invited more NA players for the NA Code S, they would've been 2-0'ed in every game in the seasonal finals anyways; so where is the point? If NA players want more spots, they will have to earn them.
The problem is that no NA pro is willing to put his life on the line to potentially win money and sustain themselves. They risk is too high. I can understand that and I personally think its not a smart choice to give up on life and try to be progamer, but I don't think its a smart choice in Korea either. The only difference is, in Korea people do it regardless of the risk. They put education on the line and work their asses of and rise or not rise to the top.
Some people seem to think every player Korea breeds is a superstar, but they don't realize how many fail and retire and are left with nothing. Ofcourse Korea has houses with amateur players that makes it easier and the risk smaller, but if no one is willing to build infrastracture in NA/EU, the scene will not grow.
And the whining really doesn't get us anywhere.
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People still arguing about region locks... geez.
The region locks are 100% unnecessary, this will likely be the only season where koreans can play online from korea, and after that its either bye-bye proleague/gstl or bye-bye WCS EZ
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On April 21 2013 23:17 rename wrote:
People still arguing about region locks... geez.
The region locks are 100% unnecessary, this will likely be the only season where koreans can play online from korea, and after that its either bye-bye proleague/gstl or bye-bye WCS EZ
Thanks for your insight. It does help the here and now
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Such a shame, no oreigners will not be good for business or the scene... shooting themselves in the foot, gj.
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People whining about how koreans are taking money back to korea.
Meanwhile in NA, ROOTgaming holds a 24 fundraiser and nets 25,000 dollars.
A few more of them and ROOT is sorted.
There are plenty of fans that support the scene on NA and EU and they support the players.
If other teams hold fundraisers as well im sure they will be well supported.
Koreans don't get as much love. Koreans work hard and they get whined at for taking winnings they work so hard for back home.
It's a complete joke.
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On April 21 2013 23:00 SoulHarvester wrote:
I do not understand this whining. Even if Blizzard would have invited more NA players for the NA Code S, they would've been 2-0'ed in every game in the seasonal finals anyways; so where is the point? If NA players want more spots, they will have to earn them.
That's just being stupid... demuslim does not get 2-0d by every koreans lol... he would be way more interesting to watch than koreans or b list foreigners like hellokitty.
For my part, I'm not supporting korean only tournament on NA territory.
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On April 21 2013 23:57 Xercen wrote:
People whining about how koreans are taking money back to korea.
Meanwhile in NA, ROOTgaming holds a 24 fundraiser and nets 25,000 dollars.
A few more of them and ROOT is sorted.
There are plenty of fans that support the scene on NA and EU and they support the players.
If other teams hold fundraisers as well im sure they will be well supported.
Koreans don't get as much love. Koreans work hard and they get whined at for taking winnings they work so hard for back home.
It's a complete joke.
Taking money back to Korea, geez. Yeah all those Koreans are getting paid sooooo much already. Most of them aren't even getting a salary whereas EG continues to brag that one of it's players is paid more a year than the entire Axiom budget.
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If someone could provide a definition for "storyline" in Liquipedia, I would be grateful.
As I understand it, we use the word as such: when a random no-name foreigner nobody has ever heard of wins a game against a somewhat known player, it's a great storyline. When badass super-skilled players (incidentally: Koreans) win, we put on the unhappy face and blame the lack of storyline.
As for actual stories, we don't care about those. Gotta have the sick storyline man.
Please provide me with great storyline examples so that I can have a better understanding of the concept ("storyline", that is).
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On April 21 2013 23:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:57 Xercen wrote:
People whining about how koreans are taking money back to korea.
Meanwhile in NA, ROOTgaming holds a 24 fundraiser and nets 25,000 dollars.
A few more of them and ROOT is sorted.
There are plenty of fans that support the scene on NA and EU and they support the players.
If other teams hold fundraisers as well im sure they will be well supported.
Koreans don't get as much love. Koreans work hard and they get whined at for taking winnings they work so hard for back home.
It's a complete joke. Taking money back to Korea, geez. Yeah all those Koreans are getting paid sooooo much already. Most of them aren't even getting a salary whereas EG continues to brag that one of it's players is paid more a year than the entire Axiom budget.
hahaha wow, i bet its Machine!!
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EPT
