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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Because maybe that's conspiracy theory but ok, the head of the federation bow down and resign, but now they can do whatever they want because all of the teams or in the federation. They succeded in destroying Slayers so now they have free reign. But only with A different president ? Am i understanding that well ? | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:20 Raid wrote: Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now... I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation... The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up. Right. Boxer is the reason behind Korean e-sports and people are still taking the other side's word for it. Even if it was the entire eSF versus Boxer, Boxer would still hold more weight. People seem to think this is just Jessica talking. Hello, they are in a relationship, emotionally and professionally, meaning her statements have probably been read by Boxer even before they were published. Thus, it's not just Jessica's word but Boxer's word that people are going against here. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this. This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:20 Raid wrote: Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now... I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation... The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up. I really wouldn't call Boxer the biggest victim tbh. Even if he got bullied and stuff at least he had a ton of supporters and people cheering for him cause he is Boxer. Hell he should because head coach of SKT how many months after he left Slayers? Jessica however seemed to get flack and being called a drama queen the moment she opened her mouth. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:22 silent_owl wrote: Right. Boxer is the reason behind Korean e-sports and people are still taking the other side's word for it. Even if it was the entire eSF versus Boxer, Boxer would still hold more weight. People seem to think this is just Jessica talking. Hello, they are in a relationship, emotionally and professionally, meaning her statements have probably been read by Boxer even before they were published. Thus, it's not just Jessica's word but Boxer's word that people are going against here. I don't know, Boxer doensn't feal like someone into politics. When you see Boxer's wing or read is biography (forgot the name damnit) he just look like a really optimistic guy with a passion. I think he read it and your right but i don't feal that he conducted the thing. As with all my post, and beacause that's a sensitive subject and i'm not english native. I hope that i understood your post  | ||
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ichnaschekot
380 Posts
On October 19 2012 18:28 nkr wrote: this is the part when savior takes off his jessica mask, right? Hahahaha | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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blarkh
Austria72 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out. That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this. This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right? | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:19 silent_owl wrote: What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there. Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters. Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD! EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded. I'm going to hate myself for replying to this, but here goes... What's ironic is that a smaller team with less financial resources was victimized in similar if not the same ways as SlayerS but didn't implode. This suggests that such victimization in and off itself is not the cause for SlayerS disbanding. Luck doesn't have much to do with it. You want the eSF to burn because of this, so they can... do exactly what happened to SC2con did? Disband, then reform (with the same group minus one) under a new name? We won't have transparency, there isn't a compelling reason for it from a business perspective. (Look at KeSPA. Do you know how they work inside?) I'd rather keep eSF but have it become more transparent and reform policies in a way that we can see - making mistakes happens, no matter the cause or motivation, but they can be learned from and can strengthen organizations and individuals. Or you can just forget about them, change names, and hope no one notices. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out. That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent people with her irrational emo dump. This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> Do you understand how it works? ESF was proved by this to only be a simple player council but a political power(within esports of course). Whenever you join politics you have to accept the risk. When you lose you die. They should never ever touch politics in first place if they didnt want to get burned. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:27 blarkh wrote: So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right? That's a stupid analogy. | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:21 felisconcolori wrote: ... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless. And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.) Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything. I can take this kind of discussion and I admit I am heavily emotionally invested in Boxer's contributions to e-sports and therefore Jessica's connection with him. Still, he could've stepped down WITHOUT apologizing if this was just about the propaganda, and again, he did this before against TSL when the sc2con was around. Good for Coach Lee that he is still alive now with his team. Again, to repeat my argument, sure, the MMA and Crank situations are unrelated to this but I believe that Jessica and Boxer bringing eSF down or at least rattling them is good for the teams. This is because they'd at least be forced to form somewhat of a defined set of rules in dealing with these kinds of issues. The practice ban was a vague sanction that did not come out of any sort of code or whatever. It was a simple act of bullying that the eSF did because they could. Mobs with pitch forks? Well, Jessica has kept quiet up to now and she has managed to keep all the evidence she has needed, including emails and what-not. If the eSF was as professional as other people have imagined, they'd have their own counter-evidence against Jessica even with her very rhetorical and emotional opening. | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
On October 19 2012 18:56 TeeTS wrote: Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband! But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica! Impossible? Solely, maybe but it's actually a combination of things. But if you want a root reason, it's most due to that initial J manager incident creating fissure from inside. The ESF actions are supporting reasons that amplify the problems. Well done Jessica? No, ESF deserves it. Esports deserves it... to have better people running it. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out. That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this. This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> Yeah, it's Jessica killing esports by revealing the corruption (if it exists) and not the corrupted ones. And I thought kids say the darnest things, but I really think it's the new teamliquidians. | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:27 felisconcolori wrote: I'm going to hate myself for replying to this, but here goes... What's ironic is that a smaller team with less financial resources was victimized in similar if not the same ways as SlayerS but didn't implode. This suggests that such victimization in and off itself is not the cause for SlayerS disbanding. Luck doesn't have much to do with it. You want the eSF to burn because of this, so they can... do exactly what happened to SC2con did? Disband, then reform (with the same group minus one) under a new name? We won't have transparency, there isn't a compelling reason for it from a business perspective. (Look at KeSPA. Do you know how they work inside?) I'd rather keep eSF but have it become more transparent and reform policies in a way that we can see - making mistakes happens, no matter the cause or motivation, but they can be learned from and can strengthen organizations and individuals. Or you can just forget about them, change names, and hope no one notices. This, I agree with and like your points here. I, however, believe it was necessary for Jessica to point these out. And yes, the eSF is not wholly responsible for the SlayerS team demise, however with this much of a blow, at least the eSF would be forced toward what you're saying which is also the point I'm trying to make. eSF, as it is now, should feel the heat and either reform under a new name and WITH DIFFERENT POLICIES or, as you said, at least implement a greater transparency in their own dealings. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly. | ||
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zenkicker
257 Posts
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ShakkaFL
Norway647 Posts
On October 19 2012 19:34 zenkicker wrote: Now Won has left, can anyone lift the ban on Kespa hiring esf players? Doubt they'll want them now considering the speed they're catching up to ESF players (with a few exceptions ofc) | ||
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