This is eSports Federation President Won Jong Wook.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Also I would like to apologize to the many companies involved in e-sports and I apologize the fans who have cheered us on and trusted us, I am sorry to have disappointed you. With this I bow down to you and ask for forgiveness.
I am taking this time to say that I will be resigning from this position and I am full aware of what has happened. I want to apologize to all the people who have helped us and loved us before, even the fans, and I also want to thank you for all your previous support.
eSports Federation is looking back at what it has done and full regret it and we will work harder to prevent this kind of event in the future. If we make any sort of mistakes in the future please let us know of our wrong doings.
Lastly I want say that I am truly sorry to Team Slayers and its players.
Won Jong Wook, Kang Dong Hoon, Choi Yoon Sang, Park Wae Shik, Lee Hyung Sub.
Translation by Min Soo Park Sad to see him go but seems like the right decision considering all the drama lately.
I bet all the people who made their minds up about who was at fault for the drama already, probably feel quite silly.
Hopefully people will learn to reserve an opinion until all the facts are out, and it seems like there are a lot more facts to come. Especially with the MMA / Crank interviews slated to be released soon.
On October 19 2012 18:01 TAMinator wrote: Nice, now we're just waiting for the statement from MMA and Crank then we'll soon sort of have opinions from most members
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
I don't know why everyone doubted Jessica's credibility, sure she may be hot tempered, but not a liar. I'm pretty sure her statements also reflect the feelings of her partner, Boxer.
On October 19 2012 18:22 Martijn wrote: Wait what, suddenly Jessica gains a lot of credibility..Plot twist!
this is the part when savior takes off his jessica mask, right?
Fucking spoiler tag that shit jackass, you just ruined the next 5 episodes ;/
Though the tendency to "take responsibility" even if you didn't do anything surely exists in Asian culture (and no, I definitely don't pretend to be an expert here) it certainly sounds like they're confirming Jessica's story which I honestly didn't take as very credible when I first read it.. Purely the timing and the way it was put out there made it seem like an excuse and an attempt to dodge responsibility for SlayerS shutting down, not a legitimate case.
He did lie straight up several times about Jessica and ESF's actions towards Slayers.
He just didn't think he'll be caught out with email proofs. While the foreign community hates on Jessica, in Korea, the public reaction was incredibly anti Coach Won and anti-ESF.
I wish it will stop devolving into Jessica right vs Jessica wrong
What needs to be made clear is that the ESF made some very unethical decisions that caused great harm to the sc2 scene. Slayers is not the only casualty, their credibility and the credibility of sc2 in Korea has also taken a nosedive. No association should ever stoop so low to do what they did.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
On October 19 2012 18:31 shadymmj wrote: I wish it will stop devolving into Jessica right vs Jessica wrong
I understand what you're saying, but I and I'm sure some others too were thoroughly caught with our pants down when this turned out to be credible. Let the shock wear off haha.
I don't understand how anyone can doubt Jessica about the allegations that she brought up.
Jessica has warned Coach Won about her having evidences, and with Coach Won stepping down, it's pretty sure that Jessica's evidences are pretty spot on.
It's sad that SlayerS are no more, this could've been avoided.
Is it just me or does it seem like the business of sc2 esports in korea is just a bunch of immature shit flinging?
So much little petty drama shit like Coach lee and players getting "poached." Now all the silly stuff about telling teams not to practice with slayers.. It's elementary school shit.
i don't think this really solves anything not that it wasn't necessary it seemed he had no choice as everyone wanted this just to start the process of fixing things
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Yes, fully agreed with you.
Indeed. A step down and a vague apology without any details doesn't really tell us much. If I wanted to paint it in a good light for Coach Won and ESF, I could say that he's "sacrificing himself" for the greater good of eSports or something. Afterall, what seems like a peaceful resolution looks nicer than continued fighting for who knows how long. Neutral viewpoint by the way
On October 19 2012 18:15 TechNoTrance wrote: Seems like something that could have been addressed before Slayers was destroyed completely :/
I agree ten times with this. It's sucks that it's always after the problems blows out of proportion that they are solved.
Won from Startale lied about it multiple times, that he's the victim. IM, MVP, Prime, FXO, and ST were all in it together. It's just too bad that the apology had to be forced out of them so painfully, after Jessica fought for it with tooth and nail.
Just in case people don't remember, Won was responsible for falsely accusing TSL coach Lee for swindling team's sponsor money and Fruitdealer/Tricksters salaries. He stepped down from his position as the head of federation of that time to take responsibility, just like what he's doing now. Same shit, different organizations.
On October 19 2012 18:36 Glurkenspurk wrote: Is it just me or does it seem like the business of sc2 esports in korea is just a bunch of immature shit flinging?
So much little petty drama shit like Coach lee and players getting "poached." Now all the silly stuff about telling teams not to practice with slayers.. It's elementary school shit.
Almost like they have no business sense or understanding of how to handle things in house without causing a shit storm?
On October 19 2012 18:15 TechNoTrance wrote: Seems like something that could have been addressed before Slayers was destroyed completely :/
I agree ten times with this. It's sucks that it's always after the problems blows out of proportion that they are solved.
Won from Startale lied about it multiple times, that he's the victim. IM, MVP, Prime, FXO, and ST were all in it together. It's just too bad that the apology had to be forced out of them so painfully, after Jessica fought for it with tooth and nail.
Just in case people don't remember, Won was responsible for falsely accusing TSL coach Lee for swindling team's sponsor money and Fruitdealer/Tricksters salaries. He stepped down from his position as the head of federation of that time to take responsibility, just like what he's doing now. Same shit, different organizations.
Translating the top comments emotively rather than a direct translation(most upped comments from netizens)
뭐여. 지들이 무슨 동호회같은 집단인 연맹 만들어놓고 연맹회장놀이하더니 거기에서 내려오면 그만이야?? 왕따시킨집단이 계속 e스포츠판 안에있다는거 자체가 짜증나는데 ? 그리고 지금 원종욱만 징계받는분위기인데 동참한 감독 , 선수들도 마찬가지아니여? 모두 징계받아. 언제 또 터트릴지모르는 집단들이자나 안그래?
What the hell? After forming a hobby group and pretending to be some e-sports federation leader do you think it's the end of the problem because you resigned? I'm pretty angry at the fact that the leader of the bullies is still working in E-sports? Why is only the chairman getting disciplined when everyone involved including the managers and players are equally responsible for the bullying? Everyone involved should be disciplined because isn't the systematic bullying likely to occur again?
임요환과 그가 만든 팀을 상대로 왕따놀이를 하는 분들이 무슨 이스포츠 미래를 위해 일하겠습니까. 더구나 더욱 힘없는 팀이나 개인을 상대로 무슨 짓을 못하겠습니까. 저런 사람들은 이 판에 있을 자격이 없다고 봐요
Everyone who bullied the team Boxer built are not the type of people who can ever work for the good of Esports. Furthermore how would they act towards much weaker teams when they were so merciless towards Boxers team. Those bullies have no right to be where they are now (ESF).
연맹 이 쓰렉 놈들 하는짓이 개스파 보다 더하네 한수 배워야 할 정도 ㅋㅋㅋ
These trash of humanity(ESF) could teach Kespa how to be bigger trash. ----
ESF has lost too much creditability already that damage control is already past the point of zone where things can be salvaged. As things are headed people are more likely to embrace Kespa taking control of the scene.
Everyone who ruined Boxer's team is done for, including certain members of his team. No on in korea is going to forgive those who have already been named as part of the problem of why Slayers team imploded.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
You mean admit to your bad moves and step down only after you've been outed and pressure's been put on so you're basically forced to.
On October 19 2012 18:31 shadymmj wrote: I wish it will stop devolving into Jessica right vs Jessica wrong
What needs to be made clear is that the ESF made some very unethical decisions that caused great harm to the sc2 scene. Slayers is not the only casualty, their credibility and the credibility of sc2 in Korea has also taken a nosedive. No association should ever stoop so low to do what they did.
Yes! I find it incredibly absurd that people go on harping about whether the practice ban against Slayers lasted as long as Jessica claimed. This sort of thing shouldn't even exist at all.
Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
On October 19 2012 18:47 nihlon wrote: This will shatter a few Jessica-haters world view.
I don't see how, the people that believed her 100% in the first place were the ones that caused this to happen. I think everyone needs to open their eyes and realize that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
On October 19 2012 18:15 TechNoTrance wrote: Seems like something that could have been addressed before Slayers was destroyed completely :/
I agree ten times with this. It's sucks that it's always after the problems blows out of proportion that they are solved.
Won from Startale lied about it multiple times, that he's the victim. IM, MVP, Prime, FXO, and ST were all in it together. It's just too bad that the apology had to be forced out of them so painfully, after Jessica fought for it with tooth and nail.
Just in case people don't remember, Won was responsible for falsely accusing TSL coach Lee for swindling team's sponsor money and Fruitdealer/Tricksters salaries. He stepped down from his position as the head of federation of that time to take responsibility, just like what he's doing now. Same shit, different organizations.
This is not over yet.
No. You're thinking of the TSL coach.
Not really, Lee (TSL coach) was completely in his right and Won (startale coach) waas wrong.
On October 19 2012 18:43 kanchome wrote: Translating the top comments emotively rather than a direct translation(most upped comments from netizens)
뭐여. 지들이 무슨 동호회같은 집단인 연맹 만들어놓고 연맹회장놀이하더니 거기에서 내려오면 그만이야?? 왕따시킨집단이 계속 e스포츠판 안에있다는거 자체가 짜증나는데 ? 그리고 지금 원종욱만 징계받는분위기인데 동참한 감독 , 선수들도 마찬가지아니여? 모두 징계받아. 언제 또 터트릴지모르는 집단들이자나 안그래?
What the hell? After forming a hobby group and pretending to be some e-sports federation leader do you think it's the end of the problem because you resigned? I'm pretty angry at the fact that the leader of the bullies is still working in E-sports? Why is only the chairman getting disciplined when everyone involved including the managers and players are equally responsible for the bullying? Everyone involved should be disciplined because isn't the systematic bullying likely to occur again?
임요환과 그가 만든 팀을 상대로 왕따놀이를 하는 분들이 무슨 이스포츠 미래를 위해 일하겠습니까. 더구나 더욱 힘없는 팀이나 개인을 상대로 무슨 짓을 못하겠습니까. 저런 사람들은 이 판에 있을 자격이 없다고 봐요
Everyone who bullied the team Boxer built are not the type of people who can ever work for the good of Esports. Furthermore how would they act towards much weaker teams when they were so merciless towards Boxers team. Those bullies have no right to be where they are now (ESF).
연맹 이 쓰렉 놈들 하는짓이 개스파 보다 더하네 한수 배워야 할 정도 ㅋㅋㅋ
These trash of humanity(ESF) could teach Kespa how to be bigger trash. ----
ESF has lost too much creditability already that damage control is already past the point of zone where things can be salvaged. As things are headed people are more likely to embrace Kespa taking control of the scene.
Everyone who ruined Boxer's team is done for, including certain members of his team. No on in korea is going to forgive those who have already been named as part of the problem of why Slayers team imploded.
I'd really rather see the organization completely player driven, instead of player/coach driven. Nestea, wake up and put things to right.
(Never liked that eSF was run more by coaches.)
Also, Won stepping down with this kind of apology (the wording is quite extreme) does indicate that he did something wrong or at the very least acknowledges that public opinion very much blames him. I still have no idea what the whole truth is - Jessica has proved a few points, but even so the entire thing is distasteful on all sides.
It shouldn't be a drama-filled shitfest, but I guess it just is.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
We have exactly this in politics. Mess up, wait until people find out. Then step down and pretend like you are being responsible when in fact you are just trying to save face. This is exactly what happens in politics. If he had really recognised his bad moves, he woul dhave stepped down before it got this far and caused the collapse of a team.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
We have exactly this in politics. Mess up, wait until people find out. Then step down and pretend like you are being responsible when in fact you are just trying to save face. This is exactly what happens in politics. If he had really recognised his bad moves, he woul dhave stepped down before it got this far and caused the collapse of a team.
The damage has already been done. Him stepping down is just to save face and try to limit the PR damage.
On October 19 2012 18:54 felisconcolori wrote: So who is taking over as new head of ESF?
I'd really rather see the organization completely player driven, instead of player/coach driven. Nestea, wake up and put things to right.
(Never liked that eSF was run more by coaches.)
Also, Won stepping down with this kind of apology (the wording is quite extreme) does indicate that he did something wrong or at the very least acknowledges that public opinion very much blames him. I still have no idea what the whole truth is - Jessica has proved a few points, but even so the entire thing is distasteful on all sides.
It shouldn't be a drama-filled shitfest, but I guess it just is.
This is actually what should have happened in the first place. A player's association similar to the MLBPA/NFLPA. I think Nestea would be a great choice as well after he organized the players to boycott OSL.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
This is entirely not what has happened. In fact what has happened is exactly what we get in politics on a daily basis. When confronted with pressure from the community at large after all the irrevocable damage has been done one solitary symbolic scapegoat is pushed.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
You mean admit to your bad moves and step down only after you've been outed and pressure's been put on so you're basically forced to.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
This is entirely not what has happened. In fact what has happened is exactly what we get in politics on a daily basis. When confronted with pressure from the community at large after all the irrevocable damage has been done one solitary symbolic scapegoat is pushed.
Please don't interpret this as an honorable move.
Yeah I didn't follow the whole story I got to admit...
On October 19 2012 18:43 kanchome wrote: Translating the top comments emotively rather than a direct translation(most upped comments from netizens)
뭐여. 지들이 무슨 동호회같은 집단인 연맹 만들어놓고 연맹회장놀이하더니 거기에서 내려오면 그만이야?? 왕따시킨집단이 계속 e스포츠판 안에있다는거 자체가 짜증나는데 ? 그리고 지금 원종욱만 징계받는분위기인데 동참한 감독 , 선수들도 마찬가지아니여? 모두 징계받아. 언제 또 터트릴지모르는 집단들이자나 안그래?
What the hell? After forming a hobby group and pretending to be some e-sports federation leader do you think it's the end of the problem because you resigned? I'm pretty angry at the fact that the leader of the bullies is still working in E-sports? Why is only the chairman getting disciplined when everyone involved including the managers and players are equally responsible for the bullying? Everyone involved should be disciplined because isn't the systematic bullying likely to occur again?
임요환과 그가 만든 팀을 상대로 왕따놀이를 하는 분들이 무슨 이스포츠 미래를 위해 일하겠습니까. 더구나 더욱 힘없는 팀이나 개인을 상대로 무슨 짓을 못하겠습니까. 저런 사람들은 이 판에 있을 자격이 없다고 봐요
Everyone who bullied the team Boxer built are not the type of people who can ever work for the good of Esports. Furthermore how would they act towards much weaker teams when they were so merciless towards Boxers team. Those bullies have no right to be where they are now (ESF).
연맹 이 쓰렉 놈들 하는짓이 개스파 보다 더하네 한수 배워야 할 정도 ㅋㅋㅋ
These trash of humanity(ESF) could teach Kespa how to be bigger trash. ----
ESF has lost too much creditability already that damage control is already past the point of zone where things can be salvaged. As things are headed people are more likely to embrace Kespa taking control of the scene.
Everyone who ruined Boxer's team is done for, including certain members of his team. No on in korea is going to forgive those who have already been named as part of the problem of why Slayers team imploded.
Wow. I mean, I know Boxer has credibility and all but Korea really is a different place. Sort of got the exact same gist from a lot of people with Korea as their locale for profiles in the other threads. Basically trashing on anyone that isn't Boxer or Jessica.
Bet you this wouldn't be the reaction if it happened to NSHS. I mean, it would have drama, but the responses wouldn't be this good.
Yeah, ESF seem to have really messed up by going for Boxer's team, and then basically making Boxer head back to Kespa.
Might have serious long term ramifications, especially given the por condition some ESF teams seem to have. (Not that Kespa is doing great right now either, but more support to one side over the other could swing things).
It's good to see him stepping down from his seat but I don't think this is "justice" yet. I believe that he had to step down simply due to the pure pressure the S-Koreans were putting on him. And wasn't the whole federation involved and not just the head? We are going to have interesting times ahead of us people.
Wonder if this was truly a adequate reply from Jessica's post about the mistreatment of her and her team as well as the lack of communication on their means of acquiring players. Something just doesn't seem right with this statement. Overly accepting responsibility seems like a someone taking a blow without any sort of resistance. Just curious, is all.
On October 19 2012 18:43 kanchome wrote: Translating the top comments emotively rather than a direct translation(most upped comments from netizens)
뭐여. 지들이 무슨 동호회같은 집단인 연맹 만들어놓고 연맹회장놀이하더니 거기에서 내려오면 그만이야?? 왕따시킨집단이 계속 e스포츠판 안에있다는거 자체가 짜증나는데 ? 그리고 지금 원종욱만 징계받는분위기인데 동참한 감독 , 선수들도 마찬가지아니여? 모두 징계받아. 언제 또 터트릴지모르는 집단들이자나 안그래?
What the hell? After forming a hobby group and pretending to be some e-sports federation leader do you think it's the end of the problem because you resigned? I'm pretty angry at the fact that the leader of the bullies is still working in E-sports? Why is only the chairman getting disciplined when everyone involved including the managers and players are equally responsible for the bullying? Everyone involved should be disciplined because isn't the systematic bullying likely to occur again?
임요환과 그가 만든 팀을 상대로 왕따놀이를 하는 분들이 무슨 이스포츠 미래를 위해 일하겠습니까. 더구나 더욱 힘없는 팀이나 개인을 상대로 무슨 짓을 못하겠습니까. 저런 사람들은 이 판에 있을 자격이 없다고 봐요
Everyone who bullied the team Boxer built are not the type of people who can ever work for the good of Esports. Furthermore how would they act towards much weaker teams when they were so merciless towards Boxers team. Those bullies have no right to be where they are now (ESF).
연맹 이 쓰렉 놈들 하는짓이 개스파 보다 더하네 한수 배워야 할 정도 ㅋㅋㅋ
These trash of humanity(ESF) could teach Kespa how to be bigger trash. ----
ESF has lost too much creditability already that damage control is already past the point of zone where things can be salvaged. As things are headed people are more likely to embrace Kespa taking control of the scene.
Everyone who ruined Boxer's team is done for, including certain members of his team. No on in korea is going to forgive those who have already been named as part of the problem of why Slayers team imploded.
Wow. I mean, I know Boxer has credibility and all but Korea really is a different place. Sort of got the exact same gist from a lot of people with Korea as their locale for profiles in the other threads. Basically trashing on anyone that isn't Boxer or Jessica.
Bet you this wouldn't be the reaction if it happened to NSHS. I mean, it would have drama, but the responses wouldn't be this good.
Yep, you better not fuck with Boxer or anything related to him it seems, well let's see how Kespa can exploit the new hate against ESF. Also at least the drama is way better in sc2 than in lol.
On October 19 2012 19:05 Lonyo wrote: Yeah, ESF seem to have really messed up by going for Boxer's team, and then basically making Boxer head back to Kespa.
Might have serious long term ramifications, especially given the por condition some ESF teams seem to have. (Not that Kespa is doing great right now either, but more support to one side over the other could swing things).
...
This is not what I get when I'm reading Jessica's initial and follow up statements. The practice block and not treating SlayerS as part of the eSF (because, well, they're not) certainly added stress to the team as a whole, but the real catalyst seems to be "Manager J" and players losing faith in the team. Possibly also whatever mystery wrong Alicia has done. The shitstorm focus seems to be entirely on the eSF/SlayerS friction, though, not on the manager that induced cancer in the team.
And yeah, if this hadn't been Boxer's team, I don't think it would have the same impact. But it is Boxer's team, and Boxer is a legend in Korean eSports.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
Even if Jessica was 100% correct about ESF's actions towards their team/players, that doesn't mean that Jessica is necessarily being truthful in the REST of her reasons/story for why SlayerS disbanded. There was a LOT of stuff in there, including accusations against her own SlayerS players (such as MMA, Alicia). Are we suddenly required to believe that she is telling the truth about them, too?
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
No one knows what are the motives, this is highly political situation. Boxer, Kespa, ESF, Jessica all of them gain or lose something from this. Whether the gain was intended or not you will have to speculate. Just like trying to read whats really going on in politics. GL
That is if you agree that was a planned move. Or do you believe whats written.
Kinda ironic that the organization that was created to prevent Kespa from pulling that kind of behavior is doing exactly what they were supposed to prevent. I thought things were a bit over dramatized by everyone but its going to take a long time to clean up this thing.Seems alot of things need to change.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
Yeah right, really elegant. Screw up and let someone else clean up the mess.
On October 19 2012 19:14 Jacmert wrote: Even if Jessica was 100% correct about ESF's actions towards their team/players, that doesn't mean that Jessica is necessarily being truthful in the REST of her reasons/story for why SlayerS disbanded. There was a LOT of stuff in there, including accusations against her own SlayerS players (such as MMA, Alicia). Are we suddenly required to believe that she is telling the truth about them, too?
Next time someone tell Jessica to film her life for jacmert so he can sleep at night. Wait for the MMA interviews to confirm/ deny then accuse her of what you wish.
On October 19 2012 19:14 Jacmert wrote: Even if Jessica was 100% correct about ESF's actions towards their team/players, that doesn't mean that Jessica is necessarily being truthful in the REST of her reasons/story for why SlayerS disbanded. There was a LOT of stuff in there, including accusations against her own SlayerS players (such as MMA, Alicia). Are we suddenly required to believe that she is telling the truth about them, too?
Well we need to wait till everything comes out. But this is at least 1 battle (i hate it to call it like this) won for her which gives a boost.
i think there is more at the back stage. Jessica must be holding some really critical evidence that Mr Won would rather step down than revealing it. In fact that he only apologize without giving much explanation further proves my speculation
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now...
I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation...
The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless.
And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.)
Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything.
But now all the teams that stay are part of this federation right ? Or is there teams that are not a part of this federation ?
Because maybe that's conspiracy theory but ok, the head of the federation bow down and resign, but now they can do whatever they want because all of the teams or in the federation. They succeded in destroying Slayers so now they have free reign. But only with A different president ?
On October 19 2012 19:20 Raid wrote: Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now...
I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation...
The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up.
Right. Boxer is the reason behind Korean e-sports and people are still taking the other side's word for it. Even if it was the entire eSF versus Boxer, Boxer would still hold more weight.
People seem to think this is just Jessica talking. Hello, they are in a relationship, emotionally and professionally, meaning her statements have probably been read by Boxer even before they were published. Thus, it's not just Jessica's word but Boxer's word that people are going against here.
I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
On October 19 2012 19:20 Raid wrote: Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now...
I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation...
The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up.
I really wouldn't call Boxer the biggest victim tbh. Even if he got bullied and stuff at least he had a ton of supporters and people cheering for him cause he is Boxer. Hell he should because head coach of SKT how many months after he left Slayers? Jessica however seemed to get flack and being called a drama queen the moment she opened her mouth.
On October 19 2012 19:20 Raid wrote: Koreans been watching too much Kdrama, their whole life revolves around drama and pop culture now...
I don't think coach Lee was ever wrong, he was bullied like crazy, I felt bad for TSL. The issue is coach Won from Startale went on a serious power trip and did some nasty drama moves. The other teams are just as bad for consenting to this BS. Jealousy is so absurd, just because Slayers was being majorly endorsed because of Boxer's reputation...
The biggest victim of all of this, that took the most pain was Boxer. Poor Boxer... Our hero had to put up with so much BS without us knowing. I wish we can do something for him to cheer up.
Right. Boxer is the reason behind Korean e-sports and people are still taking the other side's word for it. Even if it was the entire eSF versus Boxer, Boxer would still hold more weight.
People seem to think this is just Jessica talking. Hello, they are in a relationship, emotionally and professionally, meaning her statements have probably been read by Boxer even before they were published. Thus, it's not just Jessica's word but Boxer's word that people are going against here.
I don't know, Boxer doensn't feal like someone into politics. When you see Boxer's wing or read is biography (forgot the name damnit) he just look like a really optimistic guy with a passion. I think he read it and your right but i don't feal that he conducted the thing. As with all my post, and beacause that's a sensitive subject and i'm not english native. I hope that i understood your post
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
I'm going to hate myself for replying to this, but here goes...
What's ironic is that a smaller team with less financial resources was victimized in similar if not the same ways as SlayerS but didn't implode. This suggests that such victimization in and off itself is not the cause for SlayerS disbanding. Luck doesn't have much to do with it.
You want the eSF to burn because of this, so they can... do exactly what happened to SC2con did? Disband, then reform (with the same group minus one) under a new name? We won't have transparency, there isn't a compelling reason for it from a business perspective. (Look at KeSPA. Do you know how they work inside?) I'd rather keep eSF but have it become more transparent and reform policies in a way that we can see - making mistakes happens, no matter the cause or motivation, but they can be learned from and can strengthen organizations and individuals. Or you can just forget about them, change names, and hope no one notices.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent people with her irrational emo dump.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
Do you understand how it works? ESF was proved by this to only be a simple player council but a political power(within esports of course). Whenever you join politics you have to accept the risk. When you lose you die. They should never ever touch politics in first place if they didnt want to get burned.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless.
And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.)
Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything.
I can take this kind of discussion and I admit I am heavily emotionally invested in Boxer's contributions to e-sports and therefore Jessica's connection with him. Still, he could've stepped down WITHOUT apologizing if this was just about the propaganda, and again, he did this before against TSL when the sc2con was around. Good for Coach Lee that he is still alive now with his team.
Again, to repeat my argument, sure, the MMA and Crank situations are unrelated to this but I believe that Jessica and Boxer bringing eSF down or at least rattling them is good for the teams. This is because they'd at least be forced to form somewhat of a defined set of rules in dealing with these kinds of issues. The practice ban was a vague sanction that did not come out of any sort of code or whatever. It was a simple act of bullying that the eSF did because they could.
Mobs with pitch forks? Well, Jessica has kept quiet up to now and she has managed to keep all the evidence she has needed, including emails and what-not. If the eSF was as professional as other people have imagined, they'd have their own counter-evidence against Jessica even with her very rhetorical and emotional opening.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
Impossible? Solely, maybe but it's actually a combination of things. But if you want a root reason, it's most due to that initial J manager incident creating fissure from inside. The ESF actions are supporting reasons that amplify the problems. Well done Jessica? No, ESF deserves it. Esports deserves it... to have better people running it.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
Yeah, it's Jessica killing esports by revealing the corruption (if it exists) and not the corrupted ones. And I thought kids say the darnest things, but I really think it's the new teamliquidians.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
I'm going to hate myself for replying to this, but here goes...
What's ironic is that a smaller team with less financial resources was victimized in similar if not the same ways as SlayerS but didn't implode. This suggests that such victimization in and off itself is not the cause for SlayerS disbanding. Luck doesn't have much to do with it.
You want the eSF to burn because of this, so they can... do exactly what happened to SC2con did? Disband, then reform (with the same group minus one) under a new name? We won't have transparency, there isn't a compelling reason for it from a business perspective. (Look at KeSPA. Do you know how they work inside?) I'd rather keep eSF but have it become more transparent and reform policies in a way that we can see - making mistakes happens, no matter the cause or motivation, but they can be learned from and can strengthen organizations and individuals. Or you can just forget about them, change names, and hope no one notices.
This, I agree with and like your points here. I, however, believe it was necessary for Jessica to point these out. And yes, the eSF is not wholly responsible for the SlayerS team demise, however with this much of a blow, at least the eSF would be forced toward what you're saying which is also the point I'm trying to make.
eSF, as it is now, should feel the heat and either reform under a new name and WITH DIFFERENT POLICIES or, as you said, at least implement a greater transparency in their own dealings.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her (and him).
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
This, of course, is assuming that the pressure on the ESF is so great from the korean community that it reverberates on the teams themselves. Which I'm pretty sure it will, considering how vitriolic they apparently are.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless.
And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.)
Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything.
I can take this kind of discussion and I admit I am heavily emotionally invested in Boxer's contributions to e-sports and therefore Jessica's connection with him. Still, he could've stepped down WITHOUT apologizing if this was just about the propaganda, and again, he did this before against TSL when the sc2con was around. Good for Coach Lee that he is still alive now with his team.
Again, to repeat my argument, sure, the MMA and Crank situations are unrelated to this but I believe that Jessica and Boxer bringing eSF down or at least rattling them is good for the teams. This is because they'd at least be forced to form somewhat of a defined set of rules in dealing with these kinds of issues. The practice ban was a vague sanction that did not come out of any sort of code or whatever. It was a simple act of bullying that the eSF did because they could.
Mobs with pitch forks? Well, Jessica has kept quiet up to now and she has managed to keep all the evidence she has needed, including emails and what-not. If the eSF was as professional as other people have imagined, they'd have their own counter-evidence against Jessica even with her very rhetorical and emotional opening.
I agree, a shakeup within eSF could help make the organization a lot better. However, if you want to discuss professionalism... if you act professionally, there is no need for evidence of the kind Jessica is keeping. Publishing private correspondence, chat logs, etc... (all of which is trivial to fake, although to be clear Jessica DID NOT fake any of it) is not a professional action. That's why there are contracts, lawyers, memorandums for record, memorandums of understanding/agreement, press releases, official statements, etc. It was not necessary for Jessica to repeatedly and consistently utilize strong, emotional statements along with the argument that she tried, she really really tried, to not blow up a drama shitstorm but in the end couldn't stay silent because the truth must be known and it hurt her so much she had to tell the world.
From a cold, analytical and divorced political science/mob psychology/propagandist perspective, Jessica set herself up in the eyes of public perception as the poor, victimized woman who only wanted to be a mother to her players and was bullied by a big organization of cruel men bent on crushing her team because she wouldn't go along with them. There is no argument Won could ever make that would counteract that, especially given that Jessica DOES have a number of very good reasons and arguments as why she was the victim.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless.
And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.)
Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything.
I can take this kind of discussion and I admit I am heavily emotionally invested in Boxer's contributions to e-sports and therefore Jessica's connection with him. Still, he could've stepped down WITHOUT apologizing if this was just about the propaganda, and again, he did this before against TSL when the sc2con was around. Good for Coach Lee that he is still alive now with his team.
Again, to repeat my argument, sure, the MMA and Crank situations are unrelated to this but I believe that Jessica and Boxer bringing eSF down or at least rattling them is good for the teams. This is because they'd at least be forced to form somewhat of a defined set of rules in dealing with these kinds of issues. The practice ban was a vague sanction that did not come out of any sort of code or whatever. It was a simple act of bullying that the eSF did because they could.
Mobs with pitch forks? Well, Jessica has kept quiet up to now and she has managed to keep all the evidence she has needed, including emails and what-not. If the eSF was as professional as other people have imagined, they'd have their own counter-evidence against Jessica even with her very rhetorical and emotional opening.
I agree, a shakeup within eSF could help make the organization a lot better. However, if you want to discuss professionalism... if you act professionally, there is no need for evidence of the kind Jessica is keeping. Publishing private correspondence, chat logs, etc... (all of which is trivial to fake, although to be clear Jessica DID NOT fake any of it) is not a professional action. That's why there are contracts, lawyers, memorandums for record, memorandums of understanding/agreement, press releases, official statements, etc. It was not necessary for Jessica to repeatedly and consistently utilize strong, emotional statements along with the argument that she tried, she really really tried, to not blow up a drama shitstorm but in the end couldn't stay silent because the truth must be known and it hurt her so much she had to tell the world.
From a cold, analytical and divorced political science/mob psychology/propagandist perspective, Jessica set herself up in the eyes of public perception as the poor, victimized woman who only wanted to be a mother to her players and was bullied by a big organization of cruel men bent on crushing her team because she wouldn't go along with them. There is no argument Won could ever make that would counteract that, especially given that Jessica DOES have a number of very good reasons and arguments as why she was the victim.
I acknowledge your points, they are good ones. Well, anyway, I don't think this is the end of the Korean SC2 scene though.
Let's just hope for the best. I, in turn, apologize if I came on a little too strong.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you don't even care what happens =/ If any of the parties involved at any stage did something differently, we wouldn't be in such a dire place right now.
Seems so strange that all of this is coming out now, why didn't they protest earlier? Were they just trying to keep quit their internal drama and external complications? I need to go back and reread the Slayers thread.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you don't even care what happens =/
Alright, I have a cooler head now. Anyway, I don't think the entire Korean SC2 scene is going down because of this. Something similar happened to the sc2con which just reformed becoming the eSF.
At the most, I think it's just forcing the eSF to rethink the way they handle things.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her (and him).
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
This, of course, is assuming that the pressure on the ESF is so great from the korean community that it reverberates on the teams themselves. Which I'm pretty sure it will, considering how vitriolic they apparently are.
This ordeal does not threaten the scene in anyway. I am so glad Jessica exposed all these underhanded tactics ESF was taking. The threats, penalties, and ridiculous embargoes ESF were throwing at SlayerS threatened to destroy the sc2 scene, not her.
edit: If anything Jessica has been threatening to expose this story for a while now on twitter. Back then, we all thought she was over exaggerating. Guess not.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you don't even care what happens =/
Alright, I have a cooler head now. Anyway, I don't think the entire Korean SC2 scene is going down because of this. Something similar happened to the sc2con which just reformed becoming the eSF.
At the most, I think it's just forcing the eSF to rethink the way they handle things.
Well I hope it goes that way. I just have a feeling it might not go down so easily this time.
this isn't the end of sc2 esports or in korea, jeez, the head of esf has simply stepped down from his position as an act of apology to everyone for his wrong doings. this does 2 things, 1) validates that they need to be careful about what they do to other teams (which was jessica's main goal in coming out, to make sure these types of activities aren't repeated against other teams) and 2) makes them suffer a consequence so the media and others can point at some 'punishment' enacted on the esf.
All those jessica haters need to face the facts, if she was in the wrong about stuff, or lied, or just drama queen, coach Won wouldn't have stepped down so quickly. He knew he fucked up along with the esf decisions and as such is now going to take a less significant role in the esf.
the whole crank/mma/aliace issues are entirely different situations, but judging by what's been presented thus far, and if jessica does have written evidence, crank did say end up in a foreign team despite missing gstl time for 'injuries', and alicia was proven to be cared for and congratulated by jessica for his achievements in june/july.
Jessica is 3 for 5 now. The whole slasher reveal about mma having a large transfer fee, is being taken out of context, we need to know timings of such things because if it was right after blizzcup, of course they're going to ask for large transfer fee's, if nothing else, to stop the trade requests from people who weren't being 100% serious. Then when the situation deteriorated, and mma expressed his want to leave, she was probably willing to let him go for free, because she just wanted to fulfill his wishes of finding another team. See how easy it is to just say '90k requested, then dropped when no one bit! obviously she's a money grubbing bad manager!'
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her (and him).
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
This, of course, is assuming that the pressure on the ESF is so great from the korean community that it reverberates on the teams themselves. Which I'm pretty sure it will, considering how vitriolic they apparently are.
This ordeal does not threaten the scene in anyway. I am so glad Jessica exposed all these underhanded tactics ESF was taking. The threats, penalties, and ridiculous embargoes ESF were throwing at SlayerS threatened to destroy the sc2 scene, not her.
If eSF damaged the scene by malice, then SlayerS damaged it by incompetence. I better negotiator probably would have gotten out of that mess, and a better manager would spot internal problems quicker.
On October 19 2012 19:34 zenkicker wrote: Now Won has left, can anyone lift the ban on Kespa hiring esf players?
Well the ESF still exists right? And I'm pretty sure it wasn't a dictatorship. The ban was a joint decision and clearly in all the ESF team's best interests since they can't be bullied into extinction with the typically greater financial support of a Kespa team. Honestly I expect the ban was pretty unanimous.
EDIT: Hey Boss. Hope things work out alright, would as always like to hear your two cents
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Lol. You're so affected. If he had any evidence to prove that he was innocent then that would put the fans to rest. He doesn't. Therefore, he steps down because there's nothing else left for him to do. Jessica and Boxer made sure they had the evidence they needed to push their cases forward.
Any defense from Coach Won? None? Okay, well then he has nothing left to do but to step down.
... you apparently are unfamiliar with mobs with pitchforks. "The truth shall set you free" is a hollow, optimistic idealism that does not function in mob psychology. No matter his defense, Jessica already had a very emotional and powerful opening statement against him and the eSF. Unless he had completely verifying video coverage of all his moves and it indicated the complete opposite of what he was accused of (and possibly not even then) he was going to have to step down. From a purely "propaganda" point of view, he's in a hole he can't possibly dig himself out of even if he is completely blameless.
And indeed, he was not blameless. Apologizing and stepping down however can help the entire shitstorm to be closed, die down, and give things a chance to move on so that the larger organization can hopefully recover and continue to operate, letting all the crap stick to him. (That's a horrible bit of mental imagery, but it's also pretty normal in business/politics.)
Of course, to pre-empt what I can see as future ad-hominem attacks against my viewpoint, I am old, jaded, and have worked heavily in soul-destroying industries like telemarketing, telephone tech support, and security. So of course I don't believe anyone, ever, about anything.
I can take this kind of discussion and I admit I am heavily emotionally invested in Boxer's contributions to e-sports and therefore Jessica's connection with him. Still, he could've stepped down WITHOUT apologizing if this was just about the propaganda, and again, he did this before against TSL when the sc2con was around. Good for Coach Lee that he is still alive now with his team.
Again, to repeat my argument, sure, the MMA and Crank situations are unrelated to this but I believe that Jessica and Boxer bringing eSF down or at least rattling them is good for the teams. This is because they'd at least be forced to form somewhat of a defined set of rules in dealing with these kinds of issues. The practice ban was a vague sanction that did not come out of any sort of code or whatever. It was a simple act of bullying that the eSF did because they could.
Mobs with pitch forks? Well, Jessica has kept quiet up to now and she has managed to keep all the evidence she has needed, including emails and what-not. If the eSF was as professional as other people have imagined, they'd have their own counter-evidence against Jessica even with her very rhetorical and emotional opening.
I agree, a shakeup within eSF could help make the organization a lot better. However, if you want to discuss professionalism... if you act professionally, there is no need for evidence of the kind Jessica is keeping. Publishing private correspondence, chat logs, etc... (all of which is trivial to fake, although to be clear Jessica DID NOT fake any of it) is not a professional action. That's why there are contracts, lawyers, memorandums for record, memorandums of understanding/agreement, press releases, official statements, etc. It was not necessary for Jessica to repeatedly and consistently utilize strong, emotional statements along with the argument that she tried, she really really tried, to not blow up a drama shitstorm but in the end couldn't stay silent because the truth must be known and it hurt her so much she had to tell the world.
From a cold, analytical and divorced political science/mob psychology/propagandist perspective, Jessica set herself up in the eyes of public perception as the poor, victimized woman who only wanted to be a mother to her players and was bullied by a big organization of cruel men bent on crushing her team because she wouldn't go along with them. There is no argument Won could ever make that would counteract that, especially given that Jessica DOES have a number of very good reasons and arguments as why she was the victim.
I acknowledge your points, they are good ones. Well, anyway, I don't think this is the end of the Korean SC2 scene though.
Let's just hope for the best. I, in turn, apologize if I came on a little too strong.
It's an emotional subject, and it's pretty bad all around. No worries. I agree, let's hope for the best to come out of all of this.
Now, see, if we could just convince all the teams to communicate like this maybe things would go better... :D
On October 19 2012 19:39 ragz_gt wrote: Wait... Lee Hyung Sub is Choya right?
Why is his name on there and not Boss'?
Because Choya is FXO's representative in the ESF? I do wonder if Boss/Unstable was aware of this going on, though.
Not aware, and extremely pissed.
It's OK, if you need a new coach I hear there's this guy called Cella who is pretty awesome and might be looking for a team if he's planning to continue in Starcraft.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
TSL is a miracle. they lost fd,trickster, killer, puma, alive, jyp, clide.... dunni how coach lee did it. i think slayers had the potential to bounce back with miya, arthur, miso, genius etc. but yeah... would have been hard
On October 19 2012 19:39 ragz_gt wrote: Wait... Lee Hyung Sub is Choya right?
Why is his name on there and not Boss'?
Because Choya is FXO's representative in the ESF? I do wonder if Boss/Unstable was aware of this going on, though.
Not aware, and extremely pissed.
It's OK, if you need a new coach I hear there's this guy called Cella who is pretty awesome and might be looking for a team if he's planning to continue in Starcraft.
Choya is a very good coach and all around good player. He looks like a very genuine person. Esf did badly but there is no reason to fuck someone's life over just to calm the kids down. It's not like SlayerS disbanded for the sole reason Esf did some bullying, it's a combination of things like this J manager guy + gullible players + Esf bullying etc etc. Esf admitted their fault through their head representative who stepped down and apologize, no need to sanction this further IMO. It's already bad enough we lost a team, the pitchforks have to be brought down now.
I feel that Jessica should've come out with everything sooner. If it was done 8 months ago, maybe it could've saved SlayerS. Maybe not tho because you know some people will have resentment over the team. They were prob doomed either way...
On October 19 2012 19:39 ragz_gt wrote: Wait... Lee Hyung Sub is Choya right?
Why is his name on there and not Boss'?
Because Choya is FXO's representative in the ESF? I do wonder if Boss/Unstable was aware of this going on, though.
Not aware, and extremely pissed.
It's OK, if you need a new coach I hear there's this guy called Cella who is pretty awesome and might be looking for a team if he's planning to continue in Starcraft.
Choya is a very good coach and all around good player. He looks like a very genuine person. Esf did badly but there is no reason to fuck someone's life over just to calm the kids down. It's not like SlayerS disbanded for the sole reason Esf did some bullying, it's a combination of things like this J manager guy + gullible players + Esf bullying etc etc. Esf admitted their fault through their head representative who stepped down and apologize, no need to sanction this further IMO. It's already bad enough we lost a team, the pitchforks have to be brought down now.
the thing is that the same shit happened with tsl..
they accused him and when the facts were revealed coach won steppes down and organized a new association soon afterwards
On October 19 2012 19:39 ragz_gt wrote: Wait... Lee Hyung Sub is Choya right?
Why is his name on there and not Boss'?
Because Choya is FXO's representative in the ESF? I do wonder if Boss/Unstable was aware of this going on, though.
Not aware, and extremely pissed.
It's OK, if you need a new coach I hear there's this guy called Cella who is pretty awesome and might be looking for a team if he's planning to continue in Starcraft.
Choya is a very good coach and all around good player. He looks like a very genuine person. Esf did badly but there is no reason to fuck someone's life over just to calm the kids down. It's not like SlayerS disbanded for the sole reason Esf did some bullying, it's a combination of things like this J manager guy + gullible players + Esf bullying etc etc. Esf admitted their fault through their head representative who stepped down and apologize, no need to sanction this further IMO. It's already bad enough we lost a team, the pitchforks have to be brought down now.
the thing is that the same shit happened with tsl..
they accused him and when the facts were revealed coach won steppes down and organized a new association soon afterwards
I don't know, it might be true and i can't pretend knowing him at all. He might not be the best to fulfill any political job but i think Choya does a great job at coaching the FXO guys. He might be very bad at politics and maybe needs to be brought down to earth. In this case, it was not an individual decision, if every Esf members have to be sanctionned, i think no team would have a coach right after this. That's taking things out of proportion IMO.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Nothing will satisfy a sad, sad person such as yourself.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Because you have ALL the sources in the world right?
God, its people like you that create the effect you're talking about in the first place.
On October 19 2012 18:15 TechNoTrance wrote: Seems like something that could have been addressed before Slayers was destroyed completely :/
Yeah, thats what i am thinking. Why did Jessica waited so long before bringing this matter up? She was worried that people wont treat this matter seriously enough perhaps?
On October 19 2012 20:12 Sent. wrote: "I am truly sorry to Team Slayers" hahahahahaa... It's ridiculous. He's very sorry not because he did bad stuff, but because bad stuff was revealed.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
TSL is a miracle. they lost fd,trickster, killer, puma, alive, jyp, clide.... dunni how coach lee did it. i think slayers had the potential to bounce back with miya, arthur, miso, genius etc. but yeah... would have been hard
Maybe because coach lee focused on rebuilding the team instead of dumping a 10 meg emo broadcast all over the interwebs
Edit: Actually maybe TSL should get the 'incredible miracle' moniker
as others have said, this kind of smells like a political damage control move rather than a genuinely right one, but I don't know if we'll ever know which one it is (nor do I know Korean culture enough to say with any authority). What it does say however is that there was indeed some legitimacy to Jessica's claims.
I guess everyone that wanted to blame Jessica for everything will have to bite their tounge.
Honestly it's really brave of someone to accept responsibility for their actions. To even step down from his position? It's sad that it's come to this but Won really rose in my eyes now. I just wish the ESF players that accepted the "no practice" orders without a fight would issue an apology, because it's a shame some didnt.
TeeTS, nice of you to laugh in this situation, but even if he is a scapegoat this proves Jessica was right. I guess you just can't accept that. But the saddest thing is that she will come out okay, and so will Won. The only ones that will be affected in the long run by the actions of ESF and Jessica are the SlayerS players, which if you believe some sources werent all that innocent either.
I don't care about his apology. The damage is already done and all this situation caused all this ruckus and shattered boxers dream. I won't even forgive him or ESF teams who participated in that embargo.
Interesting, I knew it couldn't be Jessica's fault with the way she openly publicized this blitzkrieg style, I had originally thought she may not be malicious, but certainly incompenent
Confession b the IEF says differently though, clearly they intentionally tried to ostricized Slayers, one factor to Jessica and Boxer's woes
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
TSL is a miracle. they lost fd,trickster, killer, puma, alive, jyp, clide.... dunni how coach lee did it. i think slayers had the potential to bounce back with miya, arthur, miso, genius etc. but yeah... would have been hard
Maybe because coach lee focused on rebuilding the team instead of dumping a 10 meg emo broadcast all over the interwebs
Edit: Actually maybe TSL should get the 'incredible miracle' moniker
No, he threw a massive bitchfit all across the interwebs first (alive etc. drama). Why do people make out that Jessica has been the only one to take this route =/
One thing I still don't understand about this kind of situation these days- everytime something like this happens, someone writes out a short apology and steps down to dodge the hail storm rather than actually shouldering the responsibility of fixing the mess they have created... If everything worked that way, the entire world would be 'third-world'...
Hi guys. I'm not that updated with esports news. Could I have a very very short simple summary of what happened? Or a link to where I can possibly find it without searching through the pages?
On October 19 2012 21:11 Logginurkeyz wrote: One thing I still don't understand about this kind of situation these days- everytime something like this happens, someone writes out a short apology and steps down to dodge the hail storm rather than actually shouldering the responsibility of fixing the mess they have created... If everything worked that way, the entire world would be 'third-world'...
A third party can't exactly un-disband a team rofl
This is taking about as much responsibility as possible. "I fucked up, I shouldn't keep doing this. Here, this guy will do it better".
I didn't really understand why he stepped out of his position still. Due the conflict yeah, but he was very serious (atleast this looked like it) in apologizing for what happened. People make mistakes.
On October 19 2012 21:13 Gianttt wrote: I didn't really understand why he stepped out of his position still. Due the conflict yeah, but he was very serious (atleast this looked like it) in apologizing for what happened. People make mistakes.
not the first time. he fucked with tsl previously.
On October 19 2012 21:17 MrCon wrote: But they're sorry for what. I read op and I see 'i am sorry", but about what ?
From the translation that I read, they're sorry about the restrictions on practice. "No matter the reason, no matter the length of time, it was wrong of us to put the order to restrict practice with the Slayers players." And then he says that it's a wrong decision made, and about the damage caused to the team and Kim Ga Yeon, and apologises for that.
Apart from that, the rest of the translation I read is kinda similar to the one in the OP. Of course, I'm not 100% certain about the translation I'm reading, so maybe someone who reads Korean could verify this, or dispel it.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
What's ironic is TSL was also victimized by this and TSL was victimized in the past by Coach Won as someone pointed out up there.
Jessica is not the only affected party here and bringing down a bully organization is justice, not just for Boxer and Jessica, but for TSL too. Props to TSL, they've already recuperated from all the accusations pushed against their coach. Jessica did what was right, unfortunately, Boxer and Jessica weren't as lucky as TSL in these matters.
Shiny world? The eSF deserves to burn because of this. Without the eSF, the teams would still survive and they'd DO BETTER in forming another organization with better and more clear-cut policies on dealing with inter-team politics. If the eSF is weakened at all by this, THANK GOD!
EDIT: When sc2con disbanded, did the teams disband too? NO! Your argument that they'd disband as well as eSF is unfounded.
TSL is a miracle. they lost fd,trickster, killer, puma, alive, jyp, clide.... dunni how coach lee did it. i think slayers had the potential to bounce back with miya, arthur, miso, genius etc. but yeah... would have been hard
Maybe because coach lee focused on rebuilding the team instead of dumping a 10 meg emo broadcast all over the interwebs
Edit: Actually maybe TSL should get the 'incredible miracle' moniker
No, he threw a massive bitchfit all across the interwebs first (alive etc. drama). Why do people make out that Jessica has been the only one to take this route =/
Oh yeah you're totally right on that count -- lol L2google, me.
Maybe ESF should focus on providing coaches and all community-facing members lessons in business communication and like, basic etiquette :S
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
On October 19 2012 19:39 ragz_gt wrote: Wait... Lee Hyung Sub is Choya right?
Why is his name on there and not Boss'?
Because Choya is FXO's representative in the ESF? I do wonder if Boss/Unstable was aware of this going on, though.
Not aware, and extremely pissed.
It's OK, if you need a new coach I hear there's this guy called Cella who is pretty awesome and might be looking for a team if he's planning to continue in Starcraft.
Choya is a very good coach and all around good player. He looks like a very genuine person. Esf did badly but there is no reason to fuck someone's life over just to calm the kids down. It's not like SlayerS disbanded for the sole reason Esf did some bullying, it's a combination of things like this J manager guy + gullible players + Esf bullying etc etc. Esf admitted their fault through their head representative who stepped down and apologize, no need to sanction this further IMO. It's already bad enough we lost a team, the pitchforks have to be brought down now.
the thing is that the same shit happened with tsl..
they accused him and when the facts were revealed coach won steppes down and organized a new association soon afterwards
TSL is part of ESF, was part of sc2con, and whenever there were no organization/federation or whatever, the coaches still got together and came to a consensus. They had their own issues with sc2con but they were still part of it.
wow, this is bad politics.. head steps down and everything continues as it did so far.. nothing will change, this was only the best and easiest way out.. pathetic
Although Boxer has not commented publicly on this, I think it is apparent that Jessica is speaking with his blessing. I cannot imagine Boxer would allow Jessica to go on the record and make these claims and statements, if he did not think they were accurate. If she was misrepresenting things, Boxer could gag her or contradict her, but he has done neither, which to me implies he agrees with her statements. Boxer's silence infers that Jessica is telling the truth, as he sees it. So while it is Jessica who is speaking about these things, in effect it is also Boxer.
Coach Won was just a scapegoat. So who is leading eSF from the shadows, in their quest to eliminate all opposition and become Neo Kespa? Is it NesTea? Coach Kang? Scoots? Or is it the elusive "Manager J"? Only time will tell.
On October 19 2012 21:42 Zane wrote: Coach Won was just a scapegoat. So who is leading eSF from the shadows, in their quest to eliminate all opposition and become Neo Kespa? Is it NesTea? Coach Kang? Scoots? Or is it the elusive "Manager J"? Only time will tell.
I, for one, would like to ask Nestea why he is dreaming such a complex dream for us. What are you trying to teach us, Nestea?!?!
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
Is this kid serious... SO YOUR TELLING ME IF YOUR TEAM WAS FUCKED OVER YOU WOULD STAY QUIET!!! If anyone has these stupid comments, post them on reddit or even better, on a piece of paper written in your diary! I am sick of hearing them T.T
On October 19 2012 20:12 Sent. wrote: "I am truly sorry to Team Slayers" hahahahahaa... It's ridiculous. He's very sorry not because he did bad stuff, but because bad stuff was revealed.
On October 19 2012 18:49 Telcontar wrote: Are you people delusional? He wouldn't step down or apologise like this if what Jessica said wasn't true (well, mostly). This damages him, his team, and the eSF organisation. He isn't being noble or sacrificing himself for the greater good. He's taking responsibility for fucking up, for which I applaud him. Still, it should never have happened in the first place and this just shows how immature and fucking amateurish a lot of the people in the scene are. I wouldn't be surprised if eSF breaks up like SC2Con did previously. They'll probably just reform under a different name to try and start again with a blank slate. However, with the same people in charge nothing will change.
Of course there is truth in what she said. But do you see where this goes? I mentioned yesterday in the other post, that this attack by Jessica has only the reason to weaken or destroy the eSF. Otherwise she would've acted in a total different way. And by reading some comments of the korean scene, I have to admit: she was pretty successful. eSF is in big trouble now, they were not prepared at all for such a case. They made one big mistake in the past and now everything they build up besides that is destroyed by a single person. I say it again: It's absolutely impossible, that the practice embargo has caused Slayers to disband!
But now eSF and probably its teams with the organisation is going fall apart. Well done Jessica!
Is this kid serious... SO YOUR TELLING ME IF YOUR TEAM WAS FUCKED OVER YOU WOULD STAY QUIET!!! If anyone has these stupid comments, post them on reddit or even better, on a piece of paper written in your diary! I am sick of hearing them T.T
Couldn't agree more and this just proves, how immature and childish our community is overall... This OR there really are lot's of people with a serious fucked up state of mind.
Honorable that he stepped down, but I feel that his apology should have included more details to exactly what he was apologizing for. The way he worded it, it makes it look like he was guilty of everything. Also it seems that he is implicating the other managers.
Shitstorm on Korean SC2 scene has been delivered...
in first instance, eSF was never be ruled for a coach, who is in charge of an active team, if Coach Won wanted (or if he was designated to) that position, he should leave to be coach of ST.
Second, eSF most important feature is the free they give to their teams, so, I supose that teams also have free will to do whatever they want, but it wasn't...
I want to know, if the idea to boycott OSL was a really thought of eSF players, of only Coach Won judgement.
in the end, KeSPA and eSF aren't so different after all...
(Sorry for my english, is really bad, but I don't like use goggle translator, so I can learn more and faster from my mistakes :D)
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
The problem with this apology is that he just ask to be excused without saying for what, so people think he's taking the blame for everything that happened bad to Slayers, when he's only responsible of the training boycott which alone isn't a reason enough for a team falling apart.
Coach won is sorry for not helping jessica's team in practicing for competitions they're playing for too. I for one am disappointed that coach won is not more confident in his principles. Every team has their own practice conditions. You don't expect teams from outside your own to help your team. That's just absurd.
Teams should hold the right to with hold practicing with other teams since they're in the same competition. There's nothing wrong with that... it happens all the time... in almost all sports and e-sports. what kind of bullshit is this.
On October 19 2012 21:42 Zane wrote: Coach Won was just a scapegoat. So who is leading eSF from the shadows, in their quest to eliminate all opposition and become Neo Kespa? Is it NesTea? Coach Kang? Scoots? Or is it the elusive "Manager J"? Only time will tell.
No see, this is all a scheme composed by Slayers and IM post-GanZi incident!
Slayers and IM are working together to undermine the ESF before the GSL S4 season finals so that Coach Won would have to step down and ST would be in a state of confusion before MVP plays Life!
On October 19 2012 22:34 Lokian wrote: Coach won is sorry for not helping jessica's team in practicing for competitions they're playing for too. I for one am disappointed that coach won is not more confident in his principles. Every team has their own practice conditions. You don't expect teams from outside your own to help your team. That's just absurd.
Teams should hold the right to with hold practicing with other teams since they're in the same competition. There's nothing wrong with that... it happens all the time... in almost all sports and e-sports. what kind of bullshit is this.
The problem isn't really the refusal to practice with opposing teams... the problem was that it was a forced embargo started by an organization in power. The very same organization that bashed KeSPA and expressly stated that they wouldn't turn into an organization like them. Then this incident is revealed and people begin to view this group as just another KeSPA and a bunch of bullies. It kind of puts a more negative spin on everything they've done recently.
HAHA i go to work bust my ass some free time im like lets see what happended in the SlayerS drama BOOM Jessica did it.. this needs to be turned into a korean drama show so many plot twists and turns
On October 19 2012 21:13 Gianttt wrote: I didn't really understand why he stepped out of his position still. Due the conflict yeah, but he was very serious (atleast this looked like it) in apologizing for what happened. People make mistakes.
not the first time. he fucked with tsl previously.
Changes thing if he did it before, not sure what happened, but than I would defenitely start thinking harder :D
On October 19 2012 22:34 Lokian wrote: Coach won is sorry for not helping jessica's team in practicing for competitions they're playing for too. I for one am disappointed that coach won is not more confident in his principles. Every team has their own practice conditions. You don't expect teams from outside your own to help your team. That's just absurd.
Teams should hold the right to with hold practicing with other teams since they're in the same competition. There's nothing wrong with that... it happens all the time... in almost all sports and e-sports. what kind of bullshit is this.
Teams practice in all sorts of sports. I can't see how you protecting this buillshit. The E sports scene is still way too small to have one of the most renown being ostracized by almost all the other big teams. Its important that this comes to light to make sure it doesnt happen again any time soon.
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
She stayed quite when there was still time to change anything and then unleashes a shitstorm when it's too late to do anything about it.
Not saying she's necesarilly in the wrong to release the info now, but she should have never let it get this far out of hand.
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
She stayed quite when there was still time to change anything and then unleashes a shitstorm when it's too late to do anything about it.
Not saying she's necesarilly in the wrong to release the info now, but she should have never let it get this far out of hand.
That's Korean for you. They usually try to withstand the ordeal and pray that things will get well soon. When things starts getting desperate and they lose everything, they will then go all out to bring their enemies down with them.
OK, got home late yesterday, there are a good 5 OP's I have to read, but this definitely gives credence to at least some of Jessica's post. Still didn't like the tone and formatting of her statement but wow >.> This Week in Starcraft is gonna be lultastically long haha.
sending boxer to skt, sending clide to kt rolster.. Jessica might set something else up with kespa with remaining slayers players? hopefully.... it seems ESF is done in korea and kespa has the upper hand if another OSL boycott like event happens
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
From what i heard from multiple SlayerS players, she didnt really care for all of them, only the ones who were active in GSTL, players like Alicia who didnt play very much teamleague, felt misstreated and left out due a huge gap in the amount of attention given through pr and tournaments.
Also the SlayerS players were not even payed a saliry, and in some talkshow that was joined by Genna Bain, she explained why Axiom decided to pick up CranK... and im not going to explain the entire reason, but in short: CranK explained that when he was in SlayerS, he did not even get to live in the teamhouse because they didnt have room, so instead he had to sleep on the floor at a friends apartment, and go to the teamhouse to practise... and unless he yielded good results at online tournaments / GSL, he wouldnt have money to pay for food.
tl:dr - Dont start cheering for jessica just yet, there is still alot of players running around saying that SlayerS were treating some of them like slaves and that there were a huge gap between how the players were treated.
Now that Jessica and Boxer got some credibility back, it should fix some of the misunderstanding they had with some players within SlayerS. MMA and Crank statement better be perfectly prepared because it's going to be hard to justify their decisions.
Also we still don't know what happened to this slayers coach who tried to recruit players behind Jessica's back. This guy should at least be kicked out of e-sports.
When everyone realized it was all misunderstanding the team will get together again, stronger than ever. One can dream...
Wow everything is all tied together with this drama T_T Still sucks about everything that happened with SlayerS. I hope the ESF can regroup and improve on everything for the future!
On October 19 2012 23:52 Jaedong4thOSL wrote: Anybody still think Jessica is totally wrong in this case? This gives Jessica's statements a lot of credibility.
I don't think many people (I'm sure there are) think Jessica is totally wrong. At least I think she is right in a lot of issues with ESF, just incompetent. FXO had issues with them and went public early and get it solved. TSL had more problems with them and quietly rebuilt one of the strongest team. That says competency. What Jessica was / is doing does not really say that.
Also what leave me a bad taste is how Jessica threw Slayers players under a bus, even taking swipes at Ganzi and Taeja. Any responsible organization would said "We had our difficulties and we are sad that things did not work out. We wish the best for everyone" instead of publishing all players' problems, most of which are petty issues that naturally occur when young people live together in a high pressure competitive environment, and issues that are responsibility of the team management to address and solve.
It's amazing that Slayers imploded because of internal fighting and Jessica supposedly giving full sponsor control to some random dude, but she's managed to completely shift everyone away from that by slinging poo at the ESF.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
From what i heard from multiple SlayerS players, she didnt really care for all of them, only the ones who were active in GSTL, players like Alicia who didnt play very much teamleague, felt misstreated and left out due a huge gap in the amount of attention given through pr and tournaments.
Wait you talk to SlayerS players regularly or where are you getting this from because I'd like to read.
Starcraft is really molting here isn't it... it's going to be bare, and without a shell for awhile. But once the new one grows in its place we will be much more comfortable with the evolved scene. We may even be able to move forwards!
On October 19 2012 21:27 redviper wrote: Man I am really beginning to dislike Slayers. Well ex-Slayers and particularly Jessica. She is basically leaving a trail of tears behind her.
If someone did something horrible to you and those you care for would you stay quiet about it?
From what i heard from multiple SlayerS players, she didnt really care for all of them, only the ones who were active in GSTL, players like Alicia who didnt play very much teamleague, felt misstreated and left out due a huge gap in the amount of attention given through pr and tournaments.
Wait you talk to SlayerS players regularly or where are you getting this from because I'd like to read.
I think he is basing on Alicia's comment which should take with a big grin of salt. But I also think there is no excuse for her to throw players under a bus like that, no matter what difficulties they had, if she really cared about them.
I believe this is the right action that needed to take place. Good to see people admit their mistakes, but it sucks that it couldn't be solved before it tore apart Slayers. I honestly feel horrible for Jessica and Boxer.
On October 20 2012 00:33 malady wrote: I guess kespa not so bad lmao
I expect any business entity to behave shady like that really. The difference is that ESF is more foreign friendly.
But ESF is just a team committee, basically team coaches sitting together, not big company controlled. So it's worse if they did the same evil thing as KeSPA did. KeSPA is controlled by several big companies, they have a big company mask.
How does a team lose all their sponsors after winning Team League? How exactly iss random manager "J" responsible for losing the teams sponsors, when Jessica was the person running/in ownership of the team?
A lot of people come off as if this is "boxer's team" Boxer accepted a job with SKT1 and never "owned" Slayers. Sure, it had his name in the title, and he was a player on the team, but he also has close ties with SKT. Who can say if he would or would not have gone to SKT1 even if all this drama never took place, perhaps he would have been the one jumping ship to join SKT1 regardless of drama?
I'm not making statements, such as "slayers vs kespa" or "jessica is guilty/innocent" I'm just asking questions, something a lot more people need to do in this thread. We don't know all the information, so either wait for it, or be aware that you might be spouting a fountain of shit.
Don't miss tomorrow episode of ESF more twist and turns did SlayerS really disbanded or was it all just to get the head of ESF to step down, will Life overcome his fears and defeat MVP. find out tomorrow on the most exiting episode yet...
I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
Either he is guilty, then it proves he was wrong. Or he has no spine, if he succumbs to that bit of "pressure". I am sure you also believe L. Armstrong just gave in to "pressure", right?
The world might not be good and bad, but sometimes some things are indeed.
I really don't think that this is very legally complicated. As for mobs with pitchforks, well all we've seen is hearsay. i haven't seen a single email, and all i have is some quotation marks and an apology. In korean society i suppose face is more important than law, so in a way Coach Won already lost (see what i did there lol)
In any case, the internet in S Korea is a snake pit for anyone with a little bit of celebrity. get caught just out of position once... not even a rattle...
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
On October 20 2012 01:12 Nuclease wrote: This isn't just drama. This is a responsible and admirable decision made in a tough situation. Hope it works out for Mr. Won.
are you kidding me
he stated yesterday that he wants to publish everything and defend his position
then jessica published the e-mail and now as he ees now way of explaining this he just pulled out (but is staying coach of startale)
I know this seems like a bad thing, but i think its an opportunity for things to change, and it just shows how much esports matters in the world. I for one would like to think that all parties will be better off after all this negativity.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
No he is the person who thinks scandals should be covered up because people "might lose their jobs" or "it might tarnish the reputation of Organization x".
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad.
its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
On October 20 2012 00:51 Mo0Rauder wrote: How does a team lose all their sponsors after winning Team League? How exactly iss random manager "J" responsible for losing the teams sponsors, when Jessica was the person running/in ownership of the team?
A lot of people come off as if this is "boxer's team" Boxer accepted a job with SKT1 and never "owned" Slayers. Sure, it had his name in the title, and he was a player on the team, but he also has close ties with SKT. Who can say if he would or would not have gone to SKT1 even if all this drama never took place, perhaps he would have been the one jumping ship to join SKT1 regardless of drama?
I'm not making statements, such as "slayers vs kespa" or "jessica is guilty/innocent" I'm just asking questions, something a lot more people need to do in this thread. We don't know all the information, so either wait for it, or be aware that you might be spouting a fountain of shit.
I will miss SlayerS, good luck to the players.
slayers would have gotten Dongsan Contructions sponsorship easily. her father owns that firm.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad.
its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
So you really think the coaches told their players to bully, too? It's far more likely that those sorts of things arose naturally, yet none of that has anything to do with making Jessica look bad.
On October 19 2012 18:26 Douillos wrote: Man these guys always have elegance. Recognise your bad moves, and step down. If only we had more of this in Politics
The reason for this is quite obvious. Being in power you will always make some bad moves and ppl that recognise there bad moves and steps down will no longer be in politics. So the ones that are left are the one that are lying and ambitious.
On October 20 2012 00:51 Mo0Rauder wrote: How does a team lose all their sponsors after winning Team League? How exactly iss random manager "J" responsible for losing the teams sponsors, when Jessica was the person running/in ownership of the team?
A lot of people come off as if this is "boxer's team" Boxer accepted a job with SKT1 and never "owned" Slayers. Sure, it had his name in the title, and he was a player on the team, but he also has close ties with SKT. Who can say if he would or would not have gone to SKT1 even if all this drama never took place, perhaps he would have been the one jumping ship to join SKT1 regardless of drama?
I'm not making statements, such as "slayers vs kespa" or "jessica is guilty/innocent" I'm just asking questions, something a lot more people need to do in this thread. We don't know all the information, so either wait for it, or be aware that you might be spouting a fountain of shit.
I will miss SlayerS, good luck to the players.
well its actually very easy, if jessica did indeed allow manager J to handle all foreign sponsorship like she said. here's one scenario where they lose sponsorship easy:
slayers wins team league, manager J thinks 'oh this is a great time to ask for more money from the sponsors', but the sponsors refuse to put more money and sponsorship is lost. and manager j just turns around and tells jessica 'oh they dont want to continue their sponsorship anymore, sorry'
theres many different ways u can lose a sponsor. but i dont know why there seems to be no communication between the sponsors and jessica, like if manager j was asking for too much or asking for stupid deals, i think the sponsors would just go over him and contact jessica directly.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad.
its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc.
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad.
its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc.
cause there... was a screenshot..... of MC... saying it T_T
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING?
An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight.
How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO.
That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward.
There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair.
As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger.
wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad.
its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc.
cause there... was a screenshot..... of MC... saying it T_T
OK. Just seen that latest development in this drama.
It does appear to support Jessica's claims about Slayers members being discriminated against and ostracized by other Korean teams and players. Sad to see. Ironically the Slayer's players must have felt Idra was less BM towards them than some other Korean players!
On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote: I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing.
On October 20 2012 00:51 Mo0Rauder wrote: How does a team lose all their sponsors after winning Team League? How exactly iss random manager "J" responsible for losing the teams sponsors, when Jessica was the person running/in ownership of the team?
A lot of people come off as if this is "boxer's team" Boxer accepted a job with SKT1 and never "owned" Slayers. Sure, it had his name in the title, and he was a player on the team, but he also has close ties with SKT. Who can say if he would or would not have gone to SKT1 even if all this drama never took place, perhaps he would have been the one jumping ship to join SKT1 regardless of drama?
I'm not making statements, such as "slayers vs kespa" or "jessica is guilty/innocent" I'm just asking questions, something a lot more people need to do in this thread. We don't know all the information, so either wait for it, or be aware that you might be spouting a fountain of shit.
I will miss SlayerS, good luck to the players.
well its actually very easy, if jessica did indeed allow manager J to handle all foreign sponsorship like she said. here's one scenario where they lose sponsorship easy:
slayers wins team league, manager J thinks 'oh this is a great time to ask for more money from the sponsors', but the sponsors refuse to put more money and sponsorship is lost. and manager j just turns around and tells jessica 'oh they dont want to continue their sponsorship anymore, sorry'
theres many different ways u can lose a sponsor. but i dont know why there seems to be no communication between the sponsors and jessica, like if manager j was asking for too much or asking for stupid deals, i think the sponsors would just go over him and contact jessica directly.
We both know how ridiculous that scenario is, you even said hinted as such. It would make no sense to have "Manager J" in charge of the sponsors and not be checking up on things on both the sponsors end and "J's" end on a frequent basis if you are in Jessica's shoes is not good for business. If somehow "Manager J" did fuck up the sponsors, why did it fester for so long? How was he able to influence anything without Jessica knowing about it? Why wouldn't the sponsors contact Jessica and say inquire as to what the situation was? I have more questions but I'll save them for another post.
I'm not going to form a a conclusion on the matter until there is more information, but to me it seems like Jessica completely lost control of the situation.. but does that really come as a shock to anyone?
I knew the Emporess wasn't crazy! I mean it wasn't well handled but she didn't imagine it all. A little too late but at least ESF is accepting responsibility for their actions. They haven't gone full KeSPA on us.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
No he is the person who thinks scandals should be covered up because people "might lose their jobs" or "it might tarnish the reputation of Organization x".
The usual one around here is "if we don't cover this up IT'LL HURT ESPORTS!" (for reference see every single drama thread in recent weeks where people use the words "pitchfork", "witch hunt" and "feminazi redditers"). Of course ignoring the fact that covering things up generally makes things exponentially worse when they're inevitably found out (which, in fact, this situation demonstrates as all of this was covered up for so long and now its only come out in the process of taking down Slayers along with it).
I just don't understand the immaturity of some people. Some people in this community have a lot to learn with regards to the real world and how things work in it; especially with regard to public relations. Covering things up is rarely ever the best way to handle things.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
QFT, why all the hate towards Jessica guys??? I guess next time I see corruption... I'll sit by and let it happen, hey it doesn't effect me right? And you wonder why big companies don't sponsor ESF. Would have never imagined that SC2 would create the younger evil brother of KeSPA who would destroy Boxers team. By the way, hes the main reason starcraft is an Esport still, especially in Korea.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote: I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing.
In a ring or an octagon?
I already proposed that they should have both, in the same spirit as chess-boxing. Alternate rounds of SC2 and MMA (the sport, not the player lol)
On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote: I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_>
So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right?
That's a stupid analogy.
I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly.
No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy.
Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her.
They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene.
that's a logical failure
you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
QFT, why all the hate towards Jessica guys??? I guess next time I see corruption... I'll sit by and let it happen, hey it doesn't effect me right? And you wonder why big companies don't sponsor ESF. Would have never imagined that SC2 would create the younger evil brother of KeSPA who would destroy Boxers team. By the way, hes the main reason starcraft is an Esport still, especially in Korea.
I dislike this because she threw her players under a bus. Respectable person do not do that no matter what difficulties they had.
On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote: I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing.
In a ring or an octagon?
I already proposed that they should have both, in the same spirit as chess-boxing. Alternate rounds of SC2 and MMA (the sport, not the player lol)
ESF are a piece of sh*. They made SlayerS's players feel like outcasts, bullying them, and mocking them at foreign tournaments. Stuff like this can lead to team turmoil. I mean you can only endure bullying for so long until you want out.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
LOL esf, fighting kespa by becoming kespa. That being said, does that make everything Jessica said true? I'm not used to thinking of her in the victim role, but it looks like she might be in this case.
wait I thought the tl community was on the side of esf. when esf blackmailed kespa with the gsl and osl thing you were all cheering for them. so they are dicks to kespa and you love them? now they are dicks to slayers and you don't like them?
and yeah I'm generalizing but a large part of the tl community has that kind of thinking from what I have seen.
honestly if everyone was kind and attempted not to be douchebags stuff like this would never happen.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
On October 20 2012 02:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: LOL esf, fighting kespa by becoming kespa. That being said, does that make everything Jessica said true? I'm not used to thinking of her in the victim role, but it looks like she might be in this case.
When she run a team into ground, she is not a victim. Not alot of business skill (dealing with ESF) or management skill (dealing with own players) were displayed.
On the korean side we have this level of commitment and professionalism (though jessica seriously needs to figure out how to use anything other than twitter).
And on our side we spam #shitontwitterandreddit like 12 year olds and talk about how great of an idea it is.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
On October 20 2012 02:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: LOL esf, fighting kespa by becoming kespa. That being said, does that make everything Jessica said true? I'm not used to thinking of her in the victim role, but it looks like she might be in this case.
When she run a team into ground, she is not a victim. Not alot of business skill (dealing with ESF) or management skill (dealing with own players) were displayed.
ESFs conditions where join or die
there was no room to negotiate.
her own players where victims to the practice ban and were not loyal to her. which is understandable but still not honorable (especially in case of MMA)
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
in this case it is like this
I murdered the cat
the cat owner accused me of murdering his cat
i said I didnt do it
the cat owner brings evidence (knife, blood strains, DNA test etc)
I say i might have scratched it with a knife but didnt kill it
On October 20 2012 02:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: LOL esf, fighting kespa by becoming kespa. That being said, does that make everything Jessica said true? I'm not used to thinking of her in the victim role, but it looks like she might be in this case.
When she run a team into ground, she is not a victim. Not alot of business skill (dealing with ESF) or management skill (dealing with own players) were displayed.
ESFs conditions where join or die
there was no room to negotiate.
her own players where victims to the practice ban and were not loyal to her. which is understandable but still not honorable (especially in case of MMA)
The situation were against her sure. But that's what leadership and negotiation skills are for. FXO had issues and went public early and get stuff resolved. TSL had issues and quietly rebuilt into one of the strongest team. If it's supposed to be easy then everyone would be doing it.
i honestly wouldnt mind watching a korean drama based on starcraft, i think there's a few bits and pieces here and there to make one interesting. get to work(pitching it to the industry) jessica!
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
in this case it is like this
I murdered the cat
the cat owner accused me of murdering his cat
i said I didnt do it
the cat owner brings evidence (knife, blood strains, DNA test etc)
I say i might have scratched it with a knife but didnt kill it
the cat owner brings more evidence (vid)
I apologize
Actually, it's more along the lines of...
You put the cat in a box with a radioactive isotope with a half life of about a year.
The owner of the cat is angry, and wants you to take the cat out of the box.
You say "It's okay, you can take the cat out of the box."
The cat's owner looks in the box, sees the cat, and invites other cats into the box.
You don't talk about the cat, or ask about it, or acknowledge the cat is there.
After a year, the cat is dead. Testing is inconclusive whether it was the box, the radioactivity, or another cat that killed it.
The cat's owner says "You killed my cat!"
You say "I did not!"
The cat's owner posts a screenshot of you, the cat, the box, and some packing tape on reddit under the title "This asshole killed my cat!"
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
in this case it is like this
I murdered the cat
the cat owner accused me of murdering his cat
i said I didnt do it
the cat owner brings evidence (knife, blood strains, DNA test etc)
I say i might have scratched it with a knife but didnt kill it
the cat owner brings more evidence (vid)
I apologize
Actually, it's more along the lines of...
You put the cat in a box with a radioactive isotope with a half life of about a year.
The owner of the cat is angry, and wants you to take the cat out of the box.
You say "It's okay, you can take the cat out of the box."
The cat's owner looks in the box, sees the cat, and invites other cats into the box.
You don't talk about the cat, or ask about it, or acknowledge the cat is there.
After a year, the cat is dead. Testing is inconclusive whether it was the box, the radioactivity, or another cat that killed it.
The cat's owner says "You killed my cat!"
You say "I did not!"
The cat's owner posts a screenshot of you, the cat, the box, and some packing tape on reddit under the title "This asshole killed my cat!"
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
in this case it is like this
I murdered the cat
the cat owner accused me of murdering his cat
i said I didnt do it
the cat owner brings evidence (knife, blood strains, DNA test etc)
I say i might have scratched it with a knife but didnt kill it
the cat owner brings more evidence (vid)
I apologize
Actually, it's more along the lines of...
You put the cat in a box with a radioactive isotope with a half life of about a year.
The owner of the cat is angry, and wants you to take the cat out of the box.
You say "It's okay, you can take the cat out of the box."
The cat's owner looks in the box, sees the cat, and invites other cats into the box.
You don't talk about the cat, or ask about it, or acknowledge the cat is there.
After a year, the cat is dead. Testing is inconclusive whether it was the box, the radioactivity, or another cat that killed it.
The cat's owner says "You killed my cat!"
You say "I did not!"
The cat's owner posts a screenshot of you, the cat, the box, and some packing tape on reddit under the title "This asshole killed my cat!"
You apologize for putting the cat in the box.
what the...
The situation surrounding the upcoming disbandment of SlayerS is just that clear.
The ban was a factor, and it was bad, but it is not the sole cause of death. Unfortunately I don't think there's an eSports coroner that will be able to do a full autopsy of the situation and find out, and the myriad rumors, accusations, and shadings don't help to shine a light on the impartial truth of it all.
---- off topic - don't people know about Schroedinger's cat these days?
With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
So say that I've murdered your cat.
And then later I apologized for it.
Would that still makes it okay?
No, but it's better than not apologizing. Wrong then right thing makes it better than wrong then wrong thing again.
in this case it is like this
I murdered the cat
the cat owner accused me of murdering his cat
i said I didnt do it
the cat owner brings evidence (knife, blood strains, DNA test etc)
I say i might have scratched it with a knife but didnt kill it
the cat owner brings more evidence (vid)
I apologize
Actually, it's more along the lines of...
You put the cat in a box with a radioactive isotope with a half life of about a year.
The owner of the cat is angry, and wants you to take the cat out of the box.
You say "It's okay, you can take the cat out of the box."
The cat's owner looks in the box, sees the cat, and invites other cats into the box.
You don't talk about the cat, or ask about it, or acknowledge the cat is there.
After a year, the cat is dead. Testing is inconclusive whether it was the box, the radioactivity, or another cat that killed it.
The cat's owner says "You killed my cat!"
You say "I did not!"
The cat's owner posts a screenshot of you, the cat, the box, and some packing tape on reddit under the title "This asshole killed my cat!"
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
Sounds like eSF is doing great. I'm sure they didn't overextend the market and can handle KeSPA competing with them.
It is a matter of time before KeSPA disbands 8th team and replaces 8th Team and Air Force Ace with LG-IM and StarTale. Next season?
Only certainty at the moment is that there cannot be 2 SC2 team leagues in Korea with the current market. The Purse for GSL hasn't really been going up, many GSL teams are having trouble putting up their names deep in the major tournaments, and several GSL teams have disbanded: Slayers and ogs, others are on the verge of disbanding: NSHS.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
Their response is completely justified. Pandora's box is open, and ESF has lost almost all of its credibility. I hope that it does fall.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
OP needs to add this, also wow, this is exactly how I feel, I dont think I can actually like Startales anymore, I love their players, but their coach was a total dick and singled out one team to hate.
Wow, Korean business seem to have alot more morals than Western companies. I could not see anyother sports league coming out and admitting fault like this with full apology after being called out by a very small group of people. It's nice to know people can still admit when there wrong.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
OP needs to add this, also wow, this is exactly how I feel, I dont think I can actually like Startales anymore, I love their players, but their coach was a total dick and singled out one team to hate.
Wasn't he on the first episode of GSL GNN this season (#1 - coach Won, #2 - MKP, #3 - Nestea). He seemed nice, but now I'm not sure I can bring myself to rewatch it knowing how he acted. Also, Nestea would be great as head of esf if he wanted to do it.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
This is why I say it should be a player, not a coach, and one with stature and credibility. Players look at things differently than coaches, and there are players who are also good, ethical people that could take a lead on ensuring that eSF doesn't do such things again.
As far as a witch hunt... sure, eSF could have started a witch hunt. Under the glaring spotlight of the public scrutiny, and the various communities of fans that would probably scream bloody murder first about the action itself (as they are now) and then any fall-out that could fall on SlayerS (for speaking up about it) and the players who told Jessica. Because of the nature of both the eSports industry and the very public facing nature of the eSF, they must maintain the goodwill of their fans or they lack any kind of credibility and sustainability. Any kind of backlash would be quickly outed - anything that even looked like backlash would be questioned, loudly and publicly. The bane of any shady business practices is the harsh spotlight brought on by the court of public opinion. (Any entertainment professional can tell you this - for example, Jessica. Whatever faults she may have, she is an accomplished actress and understands the importance of public reputation.)
On October 20 2012 03:03 jinorazi wrote: i honestly wouldnt mind watching a korean drama based on starcraft, i think there's a few bits and pieces here and there to make one interesting. get to work(pitching it to the industry) jessica!
Maybe it's time for another fanfic... ideas are in my head.
Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
lol so people who think jessica was telling the truth are ignorant and people who think shes lying aren't? What the fuck kind of logic is that? Unless you can show some definitive proof that he's just some "Scapegoat" and not actually responsible for some mistakes, then you just made yourself an arrogant ass
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
On October 20 2012 04:01 TeeTS wrote: Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
it was already proven indirectly by SKMC that the embargo started before january 2012 since he said that he helped slayers when he was in ogs
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid.
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
Seriously mate, you have more egg on your face today than Coach Won. We get it, you love MMA and hate Jessica and you are steadfastly ignoring all the facts that have been revealed that seem to support Jessica's claims. We get it.
Posting interviews from early in 2011 has no bearing whatsover on this practice ban because no-one anywhere has claimed that the practice ban was in effect at that time. Nice try to obsfucate the issue though.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid.
In the Jessica's reaction to the "Preliminary ESF reaction in fomos article." (link to TLs 'Slayers to disband' post), she mentioned dates around end of December, when she claims she known about the practice ban (probably she has known that even before that). Since we have October so we can say its about 10 months
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid.
In the Jessica's reaction to the "Preliminary ESF reaction in fomos article." (link to TLs 'Slayers to disband' post), she mentioned dates around end of December, when she claims she known about the practice ban (probably she has known that even before that). Since we have October so we can say its about 10 months
That's correct. I'm just saying his reasoning (NASL3 date) doesn't make any sense.
On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote: Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports
The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism.
Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish.
So typical. There always has to be 1 person some where that happens to be a conspiracy nut. Randomly point out things and attempts to link them some how to prove a point that makes no sense.
Jessica mentioned that the practice ban started when she allow her players to apply for the NASL season 3 preliminary. The preliminary was held in early Feb. so the players would have to make their intention to participate known sometimes in January or earlier which would make sense in term of the ban length
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote: Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports
The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism.
Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish.
He isn't the best PR, but that's not his job. Regardless, he is still much better than Jessica. As for what he does? He's effectively a sponsor.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
Besides, playing nice =/= fair deals. So, yes, revealing it in public would hurt Slayers.
On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote: Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports
The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism.
Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish.
He isn't the best PR, but that's not his job. Regardless, he is still much better than Jessica.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
Just because FXO is a finance company does not mean that BoSs is a finance genius. Secondly, finance is not the same thing as negotiation and PR. Thirdly, never underestimate the power of having strong relationships and networks. Only a fool ruins business relationships thoughtlessly.
As for Jessica, she has her own PR issues and problems, and a lot of them. As for PR, everyone affliated with the team FXO has PR responsibilities. If Gumiho tweets something offensive, that hurts FXO's PR, even though he is just a player. BoSs might have other responsibilities, but maintaining good PR is definitely something he needs to do, and him neglecting it just seems foolish and detrimental to FXO.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter. From all sides, I should add.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
I read his blog, and I am still chuckling about that guy caught tossing off on stream! My point is that if you get into a public slanging match with someone, is that going to improve your relationship with that person? Are Jessica and MC going to be closer after their recent back and forth on twitter? No, is the answer.
Jessica was trying to work with her counter-parts in order to mend this breach in their relationship and she must have felt that public disclosure of their behaviour would have irreparably destroyed the possibility of any working relationship in the future. People DO hold grudges. It is hard to judge without being on the inside of this particular situation.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote: [quote]
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote: [quote]
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
If, indeed. How to know for sure though? (Actually, isn't this part of the fall of Slayers? Monsieur J?)
Still doesn't show that Jessica or Boxer have been incompetent throughout Slayer's timeline.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
If, indeed. How to know for sure though?
Still doesn't show that Jessica or Boxer have been incompetent throughout Slayer's timeline.
If the Mr. J issue does not scream incompetence, I don't know what does.
On October 20 2012 04:01 TeeTS wrote: Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
If, indeed. How to know for sure though?
Still doesn't show that Jessica or Boxer have been incompetent throughout Slayer's timeline.
If the Mr. J issue does not scream incompetence, I don't know what does.
Again, we don't know if that's due to incompetence or something else. Actually I'd rather think that's a prime example of how dangerous maliciously inclined people are.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
Wouldn't it be actually illegal to put on those bans against teams outside of your association but in the same competition? Sounds quite like monopoly and cartel forming to push out competition.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
Even so, it builds a bad relationship and forces one team to be the red headed step child to all the others. In public everything can look hunky dory, but behind the scenes it's still a terrible thing for one team to be more or less outcast for practice with others.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
Brush up on your reading comprehension. Did I say it was the sole reason ? No.
It's impossible to quantify just how much of an impact this had on the team, so I find the fact that you are attempting to... to be fully retarded.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on?
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
how incompetent is that?
Doesn't that make the whole "PraCtiCe EmBaRgO KiLLeD SlayerS!!!111!" point is kind of null and void, then...?
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on?
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
how incompetent is that?
Doesn't that make the whole "PraCtiCe EmBaRgO KiLLeD SlayerS!!!111!" point is kind of null and void, then...?
the results where made last year.. the practice embargo started sometime before january this year
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
how incompetent is that?
Indeed :D.
Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on?
Point one: Already explained earlier in this thread and the 'Slayers to disband', there's loads of reasons why it would've been bad for Slayers to bring it to light earlier. Besides, first going the road through private channels is more competent than bringing it to light early.
Point two: He's been an employee for a while, and may very well have had excellent qualifications. We don't have enough information on this subject to say how and when he ruined the team. Like I've said earlier on this subject, it only shows how dangerous maliciously inclined people are.
Point three: Poor management of players? I'd say the opposite, they have done alot for their players. It's not their fault they're spoiled and immature brats.
Point four: Poor management of situations? When? I say this situation quite clearly shows they're competent but a competent person cannot fight when the entire conglomeration is fighting against you.
On October 20 2012 04:01 TeeTS wrote: Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
It's indeed a very sad day for SC2
the 17 days lie was already debunked
TeeTs is good at reading.
MC's comments prove nothing on the issue. The problem is, that there was definately no forced general practice embargo over such an amount of time (10 months) - Why should Slayers players thank people for practicing with them if it wasn't true? And a ruling, that is not forced, has basically no meaning. We can't say exactly how long it was and when it was. But it is impossible to be as dramatic as Jessica claimed it to be in the first place. And that was basically all this part of my post was about.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on?
Point one: Already explained earlier in this thread and the 'Slayers to disband', there's loads of reasons why it would've been bad for Slayers to bring it to light earlier. Besides, first going the road through private channels is more competent than bringing it to light early.
Point two: He's been an employee for a while, and may very well have had excellent qualifications. We don't have enough information on this subject to say how and when he ruined the team. Like I've said earlier on this subject, it only shows how dangerous maliciously inclined people are.
Point three: Poor management of players? I'd say the opposite, they have done alot for their players. It's not their fault they're spoiled and immature brats.
Point four: Poor management of situations? When? I say this situation quite clearly shows they're competent but a competent person cannot fight when the entire conglomeration is fighting against you.
Please do continue.
There are also loads of reasons why to bring it to light earlier. eSF had no problems publicly outing KeSPA when they pulled out of GSL and look at the quick results that provided.
Regardless of how long someone has been an employee, you don't stop monitoring them, especially when they aren't providing very good results.
They handled plenty of players very poorly. Tons of pro gamers are fucking divas and a half, learning to deal with those types of personalities is part of the business. They clearly did not learn to deal with those personalities and instead just shunned/punished them while trying to ruin their image or just not bolster it. This is very, very poor player management.
Attempting to bring down an organization after everything is all said and done is a sign of competence? What? It seems more to me like this is a revenge plot than some noble crusade to oust poor practices. If this was some noble crusade, then this would have been made public much earlier. Jessica has shown time and again that she is very poor at handling situations in a... civil manner. Hell, look at her recent twitter war with MC. She's on a sinking ship and suddenly grew about 100 arms to grab everyone around her and bring them down as well.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was.
Care to explain what incompetence?
they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships
how incompetent is that?
Indeed :D.
Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on?
Point one: Already explained earlier in this thread and the 'Slayers to disband', there's loads of reasons why it would've been bad for Slayers to bring it to light earlier. Besides, first going the road through private channels is more competent than bringing it to light early.
Point two: He's been an employee for a while, and may very well have had excellent qualifications. We don't have enough information on this subject to say how and when he ruined the team. Like I've said earlier on this subject, it only shows how dangerous maliciously inclined people are.
Point three: Poor management of players? I'd say the opposite, they have done alot for their players. It's not their fault they're spoiled and immature brats.
Point four: Poor management of situations? When? I say this situation quite clearly shows they're competent but a competent person cannot fight when the entire conglomeration is fighting against you.
Please do continue.
There are also loads of reasons why to bring it to light earlier. eSF had no problems publicly outing KeSPA when they pulled out of GSL and look at the quick results that provided.
Regardless of how long someone has been an employee, you don't stop monitoring them, especially when they aren't providing very good results.
They handled plenty of players very poorly. Tons of pro gamers are fucking divas and a half, learning to deal with those types of personalities is part of the business. They clearly did not learn to deal with those personalities and instead just shunned/punished them while trying to ruin their image or just not bolster it. This is very, very poor player management.
Attempting to bring down an organization after everything is all said and done is a sign of competence? What? It seems more to me like this is a revenge plot than some noble crusade to oust poor practices. If this was some noble crusade, then this would have been made public much earlier. Jessica has shown time and again that she is very poor at handling situations in a... civil manner. Hell, look at her recent twitter war with MC. She's on a sinking ship and suddenly grew about 100 arms to grab everyone around her and bring them down as well.
Dosey please, read up this thread and the last 20 pages of ´Slayers to disband´ thread. There´s loads of reasons explained by various persons including me as to why it would´ve been bad to release this earlier. I won´t state them all here again as that would require me copy/pasting an entire page. Besides the eSF - KeSPA conflict has no bearing on this conflict, it's entirely different, and you would've known if you had examined the other explanations (closer) earlier in this thread.
Wrong, and wrong. We don't know if Mr. J hasn't been providing good results previously, most likely he actually has or he wouldn't have gotten promoted. Secondly, monitoring your employee can only go so far. There's been countless of legal cases of excessive monitoring. Besides I doubt if Victor for example monitors every employee he has so closely as to notice malice ASAP.
Also wrong, I'd like to refer to Ballotelli for example, we all know how much of a diva he is. How are they handling him? Exactly just like Slayers was. It's unacceptable behaviour and that behaviour shouldn't be shown in players you're paying for. It's perfectly fine to punish them. You expect professional behaviour from your players, especially so if BoxeR is your mentor.
Yes, it is competence, she has managed to keep this bottled up all the way till now as to not hurt her team and players when there still was a chance to keep the team afloat. She has all the right to bring this out to light now that they have disbanded the team, as it's Boxer and Jessica that have been wronged, not the other way around. As for the twitter responses, maybe you should check the responses she is getting from her opposition. I find Jessica's responses alot more socially acceptable than others. She may be threatening quite a bit, but that's more than reasonable judging by the lying and utter ridiculousness she has to deal with.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
I always knew Jessica was right. Seem to be too many people hating on her because they don't understand how hard her position really is and for being a female. It made me mad seeing people make comments like "oh she is just a girl starting drama."
Behind the scenes this is the type of stuff people have to deal with! I hope everyone learns to not jump to wild conclusions ever again without having all the information.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Will do, might take me a while to find the correct information though. Not sure myself on what page they reside. In the meantime, you may think on why everyone has uptill now apologised to Jessica with Coach Won even stepping down. Would be very unlikely that Jessica's story isn't true, no?
On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
Sure, in the end the responsibilities may lie with Jessica, that however doesn't mean that the blame also lies with her. Contrary to popular opinion the highest employee can't know everything or prevent everything, it's scapegoating if you put the blame on the manager when she had nothing to do with what Mr. J. has done. If anything you can say she might've been a bit late on noticing the wrongdoings of Mr. J, but we don't know how exactly he has done it, and how it came to light.
The Slayers players couldn't look her in the eye because they believed she embezzled money from them, which were most probably unfounded lies spread by Mr. J. Good luck trying to have them look you in the eye again when they unconditionally seem to believe in the lies spread.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
so it looks like slayers players did help ESF players for their matches while the same was not true vice versa
also its already proven fact that the ban was in place back in january
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
SKMC said this :
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Who cares if he steps down and apologizes? He harassed a team and shunted it down the stairs for not doing exactly as he wished... he deserves to get sued for damages.
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
Sadly, I have to agree on that.
On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote: SKMC said this :
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
You're making assumptions based on no facts as well
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
On October 20 2012 07:28 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Holy shit Jessica was actually right. Like, I had faith in her, but the stuff she said seemed to be ripped straight out of a soap opera. Holy shit.
You know, Jessica is well known for over-reacting, not making stuff up. So I guess it was always a matter of 'how true' her allegations were. So far it's looking pretty bad for everyone else even though it's pretty much impossible for her to have be completely blameless in this.
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
Sadly, I have to agree on that.
On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote: SKMC said this :
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
Sadly, I have to agree on that.
On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote: SKMC said this :
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that!
also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률)
Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases.
Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea.
So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one.
Thanks for looking that up and translating, I'm afraid my knowledge of the korean language is not sufficient enough to understand that untranslated.
Again, thanks for translating, quite interesting to know.
seems pretty shitty way to deal with cartel activities imho as companies will find new ways to collude
in europe its a very broad principle in article 101 Treaty on the functioning of the european union having a very broad language and block exemption regulations exempting specific behavior from that regulation.
On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote: I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry.
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote: Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
Sadly, I have to agree on that.
On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote: SKMC said this :
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that!
also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률)
Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases.
Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea.
So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one.
Thanks for looking that up and translating, I'm afraid my knowledge of the korean language is not sufficient enough to understand that untranslated.
Again, thanks for translating, quite interesting to know.
seems pretty shitty way to deal with cartel activities imho as companies will find new ways to collude
in europe its a very broad principle in article 101 Treaty on the functioning of the european union having a very broad language and block exemption regulations exempting specific behavior from that regulation.
Exactly, surprised you knew of it. That's also why I figured it may have been illegal in South Korea aswell, but then again, laws differ quite alot between countries, I suppose.
On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote: [quote] Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
is sk gamings president on that list? no
Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote: [quote] 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
is sk gamings president on that list? no
Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote: [quote] There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
is sk gamings president on that list? no
Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote: [quote] Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo.
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
is sk gamings president on that list? no
Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
이유를 막론하고 이번 사태와 길고 짧음의 기간에 상관없이 슬레이어스팀을 대상으로 한 연습 제재는 옳지 못한 결정이었습니다. 또한 연맹은 당시 8개 팀의 감독들의 잘못된 결정으로 인해 슬레이어스 선수 분들과 김가연 게임단주를 비롯한 코칭스태프 분들께 마음의 상처와 정신적 피해를 드린 점에 대하여 인정합니다. 이에 연맹은 이번 사태의 논란과 관련해 용서를 구하고 진심으로 고개 숙여 사과 드립니다.
또한 이러한 일련의 사태들로 e스포츠 업계와 많은 관계사 및 관계자분들 그리고 믿고 응원해 주셨던 많은 팬 분들께 큰 실망을 안겨 드려 죄송한 마음입니다. 이 자리를 빌어 제가 연맹을 대표하여 다시 한 번 고개 숙여 사죄 드립니다.
그리고 저는 이러한 일련의 사태에 대한 심각성을 통감하고 있으며, 이에 대한 모든 책임을 지고 e스포츠연맹 회장직을 사퇴하겠습니다. 그동안 많은 사랑을 주셨던 팬 분들과 도움을 주셨던 관계자 및 선수 분들께도 사과 드리며 또한 감사하다는 말씀을 함께 드리고 싶습니다.
앞으로 절대로 이전과 같은 실수를 하지 않도록 역지사지의 마음으로 초심을 잃지 않는 e스포츠 연맹이 되도록 저희 모두 노력해 나가겠습니다. 앞으로도 저희의 잘못된 판단이나 행동에 가차없는 비판과 많은 지도 편달 부탁 드리겠습니다.
마지막으로 다시 한번 슬레이어스팀의 선수 및 관계자 분들께 진심 어린 사과의 말씀을 드립니다.
On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote: [quote] 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
MC tweeted that his team said to him that he cannot practice with slayers.
On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote: [quote] 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
According to the apology from eSF, SK hasn't been included. Thus as farnham pointed out earlier, it's very unlikely that SK had been included in the ban.
And yes, it was rhetorical. Nor is it only about the stepping down of Coach Won, it's the entire apology of eSF, never once refering to the duration of the ban, just stating that they were wrong and in extrapolation Slayers right.
On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote: [quote] 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
SC2 Con fell apart because someone (unnamed person, supposely not part of SC2 anymore) tried to do something to FXO (who knows what, Boss never said). So FXO left.
Then they tried to 'sanction' TSL on hearsay, but didn't actually have the power to do anything to TSL. Plus, the story Tester and Fruitdealer told SC2Con was either made up or a severe misunderstanding (basically accused Coach Lee of embezzling money and withholding their salary). In any case, they got out of their contract with TSL and joined StarTale. TSL left SC2Con at this point (SC2Con says they were expelled for not accepting penalty, TSL says they left because the 'trial' was bull).
After all this, they were losing teams and credibility, not to mention they realized they had no power, so SC2 Con disbanded. In their disbanding message they said they would form a new organization with more power to actually enforce their rules and all that...
The head of SC2Con? Coach Won, the (now former) head of ESF. So yes, he's been in very similar scandals before.
On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote: [quote] There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
According to the apology from eSF, SK hasn't been included. Thus as farnham pointed out earlier, it's very unlikely that SK had been included in the ban.
And yes, it was rhetorical. Nor is it only about the stepping down of Coach Won, it's the entire apology of eSF, never once refering to the duration of the ban, just stating that they were wrong and in extrapolation Slayers right.
But according to Jessica the ban has only been in affect during the time that MC has been on SK. I obviously don't know which is correct, I'm just asking you to not post something as fact when it's not.
eSF being wrong doesn't automatically means that SlayerS is in the right. Imho pretty much everyone involved in this has acted incredibly stupid.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
According to the apology from eSF, SK hasn't been included. Thus as farnham pointed out earlier, it's very unlikely that SK had been included in the ban.
And yes, it was rhetorical. Nor is it only about the stepping down of Coach Won, it's the entire apology of eSF, never once refering to the duration of the ban, just stating that they were wrong and in extrapolation Slayers right.
But according to Jessica the ban has only been in affect during the time that MC has been on SK. I obviously don't know which is correct, I'm just asking you to not post something as fact when it's not.
eSF being wrong doesn't automatically means that SlayerS is in the right. Imho pretty much everyone involved in this has acted incredibly stupid.
I never said it was a fact, nor aluded to it being a fact. I merely said there's information to the contrary (when you stated it was 17 days). Which in turn farnham and I provided with the MC tweets and the more in depth view on the apology of eSF. Whether it's conclusive or not, that's not for me to say, I do think however it's highly likely it lasted quite a bit longer than 17 days, probably not 10 months, but somewhere near.
I do agree that eSF being wrong doesn't automatically means that Slayers is right, I shouldn't have put it the way I did. The sole thing I mean to say is that, eSF acknowledging it's mistake on the ban, but not writing how long it was even though Jessica claims a far higher number than Coach Won previously did, makes for a very good case that they're wrong and Slayers is right on that subject. Especially so after Jessica responded to a previously made statement of Coach Won on the ban, calling him out on his supposed lies and saying they have evidence on it (most likely Genius knows about the ongoing ban). What a coincidence that Coach Won didn't respond to it anymore and stepped down including an apology, don't you think?
While the practice and contact ban of SlayerS by SC2CON/ESF was deplorable, I think it's wrong to blame it all on Coach Won alone. After all, he's done an amazing and important job in actually creating a representative body for the SC2 teams able to stand up to KeSPA.
Coach Won actually gave an interview just last month when eSF stood up to KeSPA which may be worth reading:
Previously SC2CON, now ESF, is thought of to be the new model for an organizing association.
It's still far from completion. We still need basic necessities that KeSPA has. We need incorporation, administrative personnel, as well as an administrative office. We also need a right leader to direct us. These are some things I am unable to do. I haven't done things like these...only at an amatuer level. To become ESF that can rationally handle things like this in detail, to be ESF with certain powers and trust from the public, an incorporation is a must.
Once we incorporate, we can work on other things. Right now, ESF is simply a gathering of coaches and players, but we need to work on company-side matters as well in the future. Ideas for for-profit activities as well as developing a professional team system are needed. We need to include not only domestic teams but also many foreign Starcraft 2 teams as well. We did not put any limitations in the front of our name. There is no genre, no Korea, no World, or any prefixes like that. If anyone shares the same eSports vision as us and is willing to cooperate with us, our door is open. We want to build partnerships with as many foreign teams as possible.
On October 20 2012 10:30 Proseat wrote: While the practice and contact ban of SlayerS by SC2CON/ESF was deplorable, I think it's wrong to blame it all on Coach Won alone. After all, he's done an amazing and important job in actually creating a representative body for the SC2 teams able to stand up to KeSPA.
Coach Won actually gave an interview just last month when eSF stood up to KeSPA which may be worth reading:
Previously SC2CON, now ESF, is thought of to be the new model for an organizing association.
It's still far from completion. We still need basic necessities that KeSPA has. We need incorporation, administrative personnel, as well as an administrative office. We also need a right leader to direct us. These are some things I am unable to do. I haven't done things like these...only at an amatuer level. To become ESF that can rationally handle things like this in detail, to be ESF with certain powers and trust from the public, an incorporation is a must.
Once we incorporate, we can work on other things. Right now, ESF is simply a gathering of coaches and players, but we need to work on company-side matters as well in the future. Ideas for for-profit activities as well as developing a professional team system are needed. We need to include not only domestic teams but also many foreign Starcraft 2 teams as well. We did not put any limitations in the front of our name. There is no genre, no Korea, no World, or any prefixes like that. If anyone shares the same eSports vision as us and is willing to cooperate with us, our door is open. We want to build partnerships with as many foreign teams as possible.
I think you should read up on the subject, as no-one is blaming it solely on Coach Won. He did however play a role in all of it.
On October 20 2012 10:30 Proseat wrote: While the practice and contact ban of SlayerS by SC2CON/ESF was deplorable, I think it's wrong to blame it all on Coach Won alone. After all, he's done an amazing and important job in actually creating a representative body for the SC2 teams able to stand up to KeSPA.
Coach Won actually gave an interview just last month when eSF stood up to KeSPA which may be worth reading:
Previously SC2CON, now ESF, is thought of to be the new model for an organizing association.
It's still far from completion. We still need basic necessities that KeSPA has. We need incorporation, administrative personnel, as well as an administrative office. We also need a right leader to direct us. These are some things I am unable to do. I haven't done things like these...only at an amatuer level. To become ESF that can rationally handle things like this in detail, to be ESF with certain powers and trust from the public, an incorporation is a must.
Once we incorporate, we can work on other things. Right now, ESF is simply a gathering of coaches and players, but we need to work on company-side matters as well in the future. Ideas for for-profit activities as well as developing a professional team system are needed. We need to include not only domestic teams but also many foreign Starcraft 2 teams as well. We did not put any limitations in the front of our name. There is no genre, no Korea, no World, or any prefixes like that. If anyone shares the same eSports vision as us and is willing to cooperate with us, our door is open. We want to build partnerships with as many foreign teams as possible.
I think you should read up on the subject, as no-one is blaming it solely on Coach Won. He did however play a role in all of it.
I've only read 80+ pages of the Slayers Disbanding thread and this one, but is there any reason why Won was so vindictive towards Slayers? The whole thing reads (comes across) as petty jealously on his part.
On October 20 2012 10:30 Proseat wrote: While the practice and contact ban of SlayerS by SC2CON/ESF was deplorable, I think it's wrong to blame it all on Coach Won alone. After all, he's done an amazing and important job in actually creating a representative body for the SC2 teams able to stand up to KeSPA.
Coach Won actually gave an interview just last month when eSF stood up to KeSPA which may be worth reading:
Previously SC2CON, now ESF, is thought of to be the new model for an organizing association.
It's still far from completion. We still need basic necessities that KeSPA has. We need incorporation, administrative personnel, as well as an administrative office. We also need a right leader to direct us. These are some things I am unable to do. I haven't done things like these...only at an amatuer level. To become ESF that can rationally handle things like this in detail, to be ESF with certain powers and trust from the public, an incorporation is a must.
Once we incorporate, we can work on other things. Right now, ESF is simply a gathering of coaches and players, but we need to work on company-side matters as well in the future. Ideas for for-profit activities as well as developing a professional team system are needed. We need to include not only domestic teams but also many foreign Starcraft 2 teams as well. We did not put any limitations in the front of our name. There is no genre, no Korea, no World, or any prefixes like that. If anyone shares the same eSports vision as us and is willing to cooperate with us, our door is open. We want to build partnerships with as many foreign teams as possible.
I think you should read up on the subject, as no-one is blaming it solely on Coach Won. He did however play a role in all of it.
I've only read 80+ pages of the Slayers Disbanding thread and this one, but is there any reason why Won was so vindictive towards Slayers? The whole thing reads (comes across) as petty jealously on his part.
No clue, apperantly he didn't like it that Slayers didn't join eSF, and went against some of their decisions. Whether jealousy or any other emotion was a part of it is anyone's guess but him.
Anyone who fights against SlayerS_BoxeR, the godfather of eSports, the most passionate eSports figure, should not work in eSports. BoxeR has been in the scene for more than a decade! He has NETWORK! He has EXPERIENCE! Most importantly, he has millions of people backing him! Him and Jessica. Jessica is like the most honest person that does everything fully with heart.. I don't get it.
Idk about Coach Won's past, but as for his SC2 career, seems he's been an idiot literally the entire time. The fact that he was the head of eSF was a big mistake, everything he seemed to do was ignorant and of poor judgement. He can't help eSports. Glad he stepped down, he's once again become too ashamed and made the right decision to give up his undeserved power.
Hey guys, in-case anyone missed it, I thought this is very relevant from Total Biscuit, has to do with Crank and the whole situation and mentioned the revelation in the OP. I stumbled onto this from the original post about Slayers disbanding but this helped clear up a lot of lingering emotions that tells the other side of the story so incase you missed it, have a listen, it's well worth it!
Edit: I think this audio actually deserves a thread of it's own and not just hidden with all of these pages where people have to sort through so much, but I'm a newb when it comes to post count and I normally just lurk here so I feel that is not up to me. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and share any info I stumbled on from other threads that is relevant.
On October 22 2012 03:58 Jimz1469 wrote: Hey guys, in-case anyone missed it, I thought this is very relevant from Total Biscuit, has to do with Crank and the whole situation and mentioned the revelation in the OP. I stumbled onto this from the original post about Slayers disbanding but this helped clear up a lot of lingering emotions that tells the other side of the story so incase you missed it, have a listen, it's well worth it!
Edit: I think this audio actually deserves a thread of it's own and not just hidden with all of these pages where people have to sort through so much, but I'm a newb when it comes to post count and I normally just lurk here so I feel that is not up to me. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and share any info I stumbled on from other threads that is relevant.
On October 22 2012 03:58 Jimz1469 wrote: Hey guys, in-case anyone missed it, I thought this is very relevant from Total Biscuit, has to do with Crank and the whole situation and mentioned the revelation in the OP. I stumbled onto this from the original post about Slayers disbanding but this helped clear up a lot of lingering emotions that tells the other side of the story so incase you missed it, have a listen, it's well worth it!
Edit: I think this audio actually deserves a thread of it's own and not just hidden with all of these pages where people have to sort through so much, but I'm a newb when it comes to post count and I normally just lurk here so I feel that is not up to me. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and share any info I stumbled on from other threads that is relevant.
On October 22 2012 03:58 Jimz1469 wrote: Hey guys, in-case anyone missed it, I thought this is very relevant from Total Biscuit, has to do with Crank and the whole situation and mentioned the revelation in the OP. I stumbled onto this from the original post about Slayers disbanding but this helped clear up a lot of lingering emotions that tells the other side of the story so incase you missed it, have a listen, it's well worth it!
Edit: I think this audio actually deserves a thread of it's own and not just hidden with all of these pages where people have to sort through so much, but I'm a newb when it comes to post count and I normally just lurk here so I feel that is not up to me. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and share any info I stumbled on from other threads that is relevant.
Korean public backlash has to be huge. This is The Emperor's team and all his hard work and money that they have destroyed. Boxed is a beloved public figure. This is an e-sports equivalent to Tonya Harding's attack on Nancy Kerrigan in 1994. That ended with one accomplice serving 18 months for rackateering, Nancy was forced into retirement, fined 180,000$, served 3 years probation and 500 hours community service. Her previous olympic gold metal was also stripped. + Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonya_Harding Harding became notorious in conjunction with the January 6, 1994 attack on her competitor Nancy Kerrigan. The widely publicized attack took place during a practice session for the 1994 U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Detroit. Her ex-husband, Jeff Gillooly, and her bodyguard, Shawn Eckhardt,[2] hired Shane Stant to break Kerrigan's right leg so that she would be unable to skate. He followed her to Detroit after failing to find her at her training rink in Massachusetts, and struck her on the thigh a few inches above the knee with a tire iron from a rental car.[24] Her leg was only bruised, not broken, but the injury forced her to withdraw from the national championship. Harding won that event, and they both were selected for the 1994 Olympic team. After Harding admitted to helping to cover up the attack, the USFSA and United States Olympic Committee initiated proceedings to remove her from the Olympic team, but she retained her place after threatening legal action.[25] She finished eighth in Lillehammer, while Kerrigan, by then fully recovered from the injury, won the silver medal.
The attack on Kerrigan and the news of Harding's alleged involvement led to a media frenzy of saturation news coverage. She appeared on the cover of both Time and Newsweek magazines in January 1994. Reporters and TV news crews attended her practices in Portland and camped out in front of Kerrigan's home. CBS assigned Connie Chung to follow her every move in Lillehammer. Counting 400 members of the press jammed into the practice rink in Norway, Scott Hamilton complained that "the world press was turning the Olympics into just another sensational tabloid event".[26] The tape-delayed broadcast of the short program at the Olympics remains one of the most watched telecasts in American history.[27]
On February 1, 1994, Gillooly accepted a plea bargain in exchange for his testimony against Harding. Gillooly, Stant, Eckhardt, and getaway car driver Derrick Smith all served time in prison for the attack.[28] Eckhardt was sentenced to 18 months in prison for racketeering but was released four months early in September 1995.[2]
Harding avoided further prosecution and a possible jail sentence by pleading guilty on March 16 to conspiring to hinder prosecution of the attackers.[29] She received three years probation, 500 hours of community service and a $160,000 fine. As part of the plea bargain, she was also forced to withdraw from the 1994 World Figure Skating Championships and resign from the USFSA.[30] On June 30, 1994, after conducting its own investigation of the attack, the USFSA stripped her of her 1994 U.S. Championships title and banned her for life from participating in USFSA-run events as either a skater or a coach.[31] The USFSA concluded that she knew about the attack before it happened and displayed "a clear disregard for fairness, good sportsmanship and ethical behavior". Although the USFSA has no control over professional skating events, she was also persona non grata on the pro circuit because few skaters and promoters would work with her. Consequently, she failed to benefit from the pro skating boom that ensued in the aftermath of the scandal.[26]
Harding continued to maintain that she was innocent and professed her disgust with the attack, even going so far as to get an angel tattooed on her back, allegedly as a symbol of her innocence[citation needed]. In her 2008 autobiography, The Tonya Tapes, she said that she wanted to call the FBI to reveal what she knew, but refused when Gillooly allegedly threatened her with death following a gunpoint gang rape by him and two other men she did not know. He subsequently changed his name to Jeff Stone and called the allegations "utterly ridiculous".[3] Eckhardt, who legally changed his name to Brian Sean Griffith following his release from jail, died of natural causes at age 40 on December 12, 2007.[2]
You could argue these are different circumstances, in one situation a person was physically injured. The initial intent is still the same. Eliminate the competitors to gain an edge in competitions.
I personally have no respect for power hungry people who hurt others to increase their power. I think it's a shame that ESL was able to go as far as they did. Players should have stopped this long before it got to a breaking point. All the coaches should be held accountable. They could have stopped it. The fact that players don't dare to go against their coaches is sad. ESL is a joke. A public apology and 1 person steps down? If ESL had any shred of honor they would reconcile with Slayers. ESL should attempt to make the situation right rather then turning their back.
Can't say I'll be sad if the ESL league dies. It's a shame, I really want Starcraft e-sports to grow and flourish. I just can't support the current coaches. I hope Jessica is able to take legal action and hold ESL accountable for their actions.
Nooooo. Any person responsible enough to admit their mistakes and apologize so sincerely shouldn't be allowed to resign, particularly if they themselves are attempting to!
To whoever wonders how bad Slayers situation was, think about this. Boxer is loved by many, but he also has had huge anti-fan groups who hated him. Boxer's had to deal with all kinds of bullshit ever since his PC Bang days for the past 12+ years. Everyone always praised Boxer for having a mentality being able to handle bullshits like that. He made Oov who had a VERY bad reputation in his amateur days to become a person that now a lot of people love. Now, in Slayers, it took him only 2 years to call it quits on these players. So yeah.
On October 22 2012 16:01 X3GoldDot wrote: they should just make the ex-zenex coach the official head coach of startale, cuz the ex-zenex coach made Startale as good as it is now
Gotta love this post ^___^ Coach of StarTale was fun and all, but he wasn't a good person.
On October 22 2012 16:01 X3GoldDot wrote: they should just make the ex-zenex coach the official head coach of startale, cuz the ex-zenex coach made Startale as good as it is now
I don't really think he is bad. You just fuck up once or twice and Jessica crucifies you. It's sad that SlayerS was "pressured", but there should be benefits for being a member of the ESF.
In addition, even without the ESF, I think SlayerS would die when Boxer jumped the ship, due to the sad pandas they had almost every interview. Is there someone that should get out, it's the guys that went to LoL. Puzzle was good. Min had potential to be better. CoCa was great. Those are people I lost respect for. Waiting for a statement from MMA and Alicia before I judge them.
I don't really think he is bad. You just fuck up once or twice and Jessica crucifies you. It's sad that SlayerS was "pressured", but there should be benefits for being a member of the ESF.
In addition, even without the ESF, I think SlayerS would die when Boxer jumped the ship, due to the sad pandas they had almost every interview. Is there someone that should get out, it's the guys that went to LoL. Puzzle was good. Min had potential to be better. CoCa was great. Those are people I lost respect for. Waiting for a statement from MMA and Alicia before I judge them.
Sorry disagree with you there. Coach Won basically abused his position as head of ESF to ostracize and blackball an entire pro-gaming team. He also obfuscated and lied when confronted with his actions. What's worse is that this is not the first time he's done something like this. He deserves the boot and good riddance.
Alicia already released a statement but that didn't go too well for him to put it mildly.
Crank released a statement through Axiom and Total Biscuit. It ended up being a he said / she said piece. Pissed off Jessica enough (Crank's statement obviously was very critical of her) that she's going to respond sometime soon.
MMA probably won't release anything until he finalizes his deal with whatever foreign team (cough..EG... cough...) picks him up.
I don't really think he is bad. You just fuck up once or twice and Jessica crucifies you. It's sad that SlayerS was "pressured", but there should be benefits for being a member of the ESF.
In addition, even without the ESF, I think SlayerS would die when Boxer jumped the ship, due to the sad pandas they had almost every interview. Is there someone that should get out, it's the guys that went to LoL. Puzzle was good. Min had potential to be better. CoCa was great. Those are people I lost respect for. Waiting for a statement from MMA and Alicia before I judge them.
Sorry disagree with you there. Coach Won basically abused his position as head of ESF to ostracize and blackball an entire pro-gaming team. He also obfuscated and lied when confronted with his actions. What's worse is that this is not the first time he's done something like this. He deserves the boot and good riddance.
Alicia already released a statement but that didn't go too well for him to put it mildly.
Crank released a statement through Axiom and Total Biscuit. TB hyped it as going to disprove everything Jessica stated but it ended up being a he said / she said piece. Pissed off Jessica enough (Crank's statement obviously was very critical of her) that she's going to respond sometime soon.
MMA probably won't release anything until he finalizes his deal with whatever foreign team (cough..EG... cough...) picks him up.
Jessica's already contemplating on releasing a 58 minute recorded audio of a call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words to none other than Boxer himself so.... TB might have put too much trust into Crank.
On October 22 2012 12:45 Kaz_Coaching wrote: Korean public backlash has to be huge. This is The Emperor's team and all his hard work and money that they have destroyed. Boxed is a beloved public figure. This is an e-sports equivalent to Tonya Harding's attack on Nancy Kerrigan in 1994. That ended with one accomplice serving 18 months for rackateering, Nancy was forced into retirement, fined 180,000$, served 3 years probation and 500 hours community service. Her previous olympic gold metal was also stripped. + Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonya_Harding Harding became notorious in conjunction with the January 6, 1994 attack on her competitor Nancy Kerrigan. The widely publicized attack took place during a practice session for the 1994 U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Detroit. Her ex-husband, Jeff Gillooly, and her bodyguard, Shawn Eckhardt,[2] hired Shane Stant to break Kerrigan's right leg so that she would be unable to skate. He followed her to Detroit after failing to find her at her training rink in Massachusetts, and struck her on the thigh a few inches above the knee with a tire iron from a rental car.[24] Her leg was only bruised, not broken, but the injury forced her to withdraw from the national championship. Harding won that event, and they both were selected for the 1994 Olympic team. After Harding admitted to helping to cover up the attack, the USFSA and United States Olympic Committee initiated proceedings to remove her from the Olympic team, but she retained her place after threatening legal action.[25] She finished eighth in Lillehammer, while Kerrigan, by then fully recovered from the injury, won the silver medal.
The attack on Kerrigan and the news of Harding's alleged involvement led to a media frenzy of saturation news coverage. She appeared on the cover of both Time and Newsweek magazines in January 1994. Reporters and TV news crews attended her practices in Portland and camped out in front of Kerrigan's home. CBS assigned Connie Chung to follow her every move in Lillehammer. Counting 400 members of the press jammed into the practice rink in Norway, Scott Hamilton complained that "the world press was turning the Olympics into just another sensational tabloid event".[26] The tape-delayed broadcast of the short program at the Olympics remains one of the most watched telecasts in American history.[27]
On February 1, 1994, Gillooly accepted a plea bargain in exchange for his testimony against Harding. Gillooly, Stant, Eckhardt, and getaway car driver Derrick Smith all served time in prison for the attack.[28] Eckhardt was sentenced to 18 months in prison for racketeering but was released four months early in September 1995.[2]
Harding avoided further prosecution and a possible jail sentence by pleading guilty on March 16 to conspiring to hinder prosecution of the attackers.[29] She received three years probation, 500 hours of community service and a $160,000 fine. As part of the plea bargain, she was also forced to withdraw from the 1994 World Figure Skating Championships and resign from the USFSA.[30] On June 30, 1994, after conducting its own investigation of the attack, the USFSA stripped her of her 1994 U.S. Championships title and banned her for life from participating in USFSA-run events as either a skater or a coach.[31] The USFSA concluded that she knew about the attack before it happened and displayed "a clear disregard for fairness, good sportsmanship and ethical behavior". Although the USFSA has no control over professional skating events, she was also persona non grata on the pro circuit because few skaters and promoters would work with her. Consequently, she failed to benefit from the pro skating boom that ensued in the aftermath of the scandal.[26]
Harding continued to maintain that she was innocent and professed her disgust with the attack, even going so far as to get an angel tattooed on her back, allegedly as a symbol of her innocence[citation needed]. In her 2008 autobiography, The Tonya Tapes, she said that she wanted to call the FBI to reveal what she knew, but refused when Gillooly allegedly threatened her with death following a gunpoint gang rape by him and two other men she did not know. He subsequently changed his name to Jeff Stone and called the allegations "utterly ridiculous".[3] Eckhardt, who legally changed his name to Brian Sean Griffith following his release from jail, died of natural causes at age 40 on December 12, 2007.[2]
You could argue these are different circumstances, in one situation a person was physically injured. The initial intent is still the same. Eliminate the competitors to gain an edge in competitions.
I personally have no respect for power hungry people who hurt others to increase their power. I think it's a shame that ESL was able to go as far as they did. Players should have stopped this long before it got to a breaking point. All the coaches should be held accountable. They could have stopped it. The fact that players don't dare to go against their coaches is sad. ESL is a joke. A public apology and 1 person steps down? If ESL had any shred of honor they would reconcile with Slayers. ESL should attempt to make the situation right rather then turning their back.
Can't say I'll be sad if the ESL league dies. It's a shame, I really want Starcraft e-sports to grow and flourish. I just can't support the current coaches. I hope Jessica is able to take legal action and hold ESL accountable for their actions.
1. they did not break his hand - this would have been an comparable example. Don't compare two different things with each other. Don't. 2. ESL (Electronic Sports League) has nothing to do with it.
I don't really think he is bad. You just fuck up once or twice and Jessica crucifies you. It's sad that SlayerS was "pressured", but there should be benefits for being a member of the ESF.
In addition, even without the ESF, I think SlayerS would die when Boxer jumped the ship, due to the sad pandas they had almost every interview. Is there someone that should get out, it's the guys that went to LoL. Puzzle was good. Min had potential to be better. CoCa was great. Those are people I lost respect for. Waiting for a statement from MMA and Alicia before I judge them.
Sorry disagree with you there. Coach Won basically abused his position as head of ESF to ostracize and blackball an entire pro-gaming team. He also obfuscated and lied when confronted with his actions. What's worse is that this is not the first time he's done something like this. He deserves the boot and good riddance.
Alicia already released a statement but that didn't go too well for him to put it mildly.
Crank released a statement through Axiom and Total Biscuit. TB hyped it as going to disprove everything Jessica stated but it ended up being a he said / she said piece. Pissed off Jessica enough (Crank's statement obviously was very critical of her) that she's going to respond sometime soon.
MMA probably won't release anything until he finalizes his deal with whatever foreign team (cough..EG... cough...) picks him up.
Jessica's already contemplating on releasing a 58 minute recorded audio of a call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words to none other than Boxer himself so.... TB might have put too much trust into Crank.
It depends on Jessica's willingness to watch the world burn. Crank may have insulted an elder and would get ostracized by Korean netizens. However he is now out of this crazy world and his salary doesn't depend on these kids opinions. I would add it doesn't depends on ours neither.
"All our teams never agreed to collectively ostracize Slayers. We never interfered with the personal connections and communications between the individual players."
(next paragraph)
"We never received any official statements from Slayers and there weren't any serious attempts to communicate or negotiate. Each of [ESF's] coaches explained the situation as listed above to their respective players and hoped that the players would understand and execute the directions as instructed. As a result, the practice ban started on March 10th following the end of NASL S3 preliminaries and ended on March 27th."
EPT
Still better than twilight 
