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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 07:36 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:26 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor. dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though Sadly, I have to agree on that. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:
SKMC said this :
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that! 
also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률)
Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases.
Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea.
So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one.
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
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On October 20 2012 07:52 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:36 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:26 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor. dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though Sadly, I have to agree on that. On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that! also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률) Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases. Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea. So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one.
Thanks for looking that up and translating, I'm afraid my knowledge of the korean language is not sufficient enough to understand that untranslated.
Again, thanks for translating, quite interesting to know.
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On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban?
I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't.
That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
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On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it.
But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban.
Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK.
Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 07:58 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:52 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:36 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:26 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor. dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though Sadly, I have to agree on that. On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that! also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률) Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases. Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea. So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one. Thanks for looking that up and translating, I'm afraid my knowledge of the korean language is not sufficient enough to understand that untranslated. Again, thanks for translating, quite interesting to know.
seems pretty shitty way to deal with cartel activities imho as companies will find new ways to collude
in europe its a very broad principle in article 101 Treaty on the functioning of the european union having a very broad language and block exemption regulations exempting specific behavior from that regulation.
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 07:59 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban? I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't. That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct.
look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits
is sk gamings president on that list? no
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On October 20 2012 08:03 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:58 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:52 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:36 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:26 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor. dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though Sadly, I have to agree on that. On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that! also i checked the korean law against monopoly and unfair trade (독점규제및 공정거래에관한 법률) Para 19 says that a Enterpreneur is not allowed to collude with another Enterpreneur to limit competition in certain cases. Then there are 9 clauses but it is not clear if these are examples or the 9 specific cases of cartel building in korea. So yeah the case is similar to a fobidden horizontal agreement but I dont think it is one. Thanks for looking that up and translating, I'm afraid my knowledge of the korean language is not sufficient enough to understand that untranslated. Again, thanks for translating, quite interesting to know. seems pretty shitty way to deal with cartel activities imho as companies will find new ways to collude in europe its a very broad principle in article 101 Treaty on the functioning of the european union having a very broad language and block exemption regulations exempting specific behavior from that regulation.
Exactly, surprised you knew of it. That's also why I figured it may have been illegal in South Korea aswell, but then again, laws differ quite alot between countries, I suppose.
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On October 20 2012 08:04 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:59 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:
[quote]
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban? I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't. That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct. look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits is sk gamings president on that list? no
Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 08:14 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:04 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:59 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:
[quote]
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban? I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't. That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct. look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits is sk gamings president on that list? no Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic.
박외식is gerrard prime
they were part of it
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On October 20 2012 08:15 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:14 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 08:04 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:59 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:[quote] There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban? I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't. That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct. look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits is sk gamings president on that list? no Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic. 박외식is gerrard prime they were part of it
OP translate only have NSH manager 박영식.
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On October 20 2012 08:03 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:
[quote]
Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to? I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban. Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations?
I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either.
You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it.
The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 08:17 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:15 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 08:14 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 08:04 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:59 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:54 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. so you are saying that SK is part of the ESF or the practice ban? I'm saying neither. I am saying that MC has been included by esf when he was on SK in other decisions. That would mean it's entirely possible he was asked to not practise with Slayers while on SK. We don't know that he was or wasn't. That does mean that your conclusion (that it happened before January) is flawed though. It could have happened on both oGs and SK, so we are back at not knowing the timeframe at all. Other than it's probably somewhere between 17 days and 10 months with neither being correct. look at the official esf apology.. there is a list of the culprits is sk gamings president on that list? no Prime and TSL are not on the list. We know about TSL but Prime is strange. I'd wish they didn't do anything but that feels unrealistic. 박외식is gerrard prime they were part of it OP translate only have NSH manager 박영식.
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1316628&board=&category=13438&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
e스포츠 연맹 사과 발표문
안녕하세요.
e스포츠 연맹 원종욱 회장입니다.
이유를 막론하고 이번 사태와 길고 짧음의 기간에 상관없이 슬레이어스팀을 대상으로 한 연습 제재는 옳지 못한 결정이었습니다. 또한 연맹은 당시 8개 팀의 감독들의 잘못된 결정으로 인해 슬레이어스 선수 분들과 김가연 게임단주를 비롯한 코칭스태프 분들께 마음의 상처와 정신적 피해를 드린 점에 대하여 인정합니다. 이에 연맹은 이번 사태의 논란과 관련해 용서를 구하고 진심으로 고개 숙여 사과 드립니다.
또한 이러한 일련의 사태들로 e스포츠 업계와 많은 관계사 및 관계자분들 그리고 믿고 응원해 주셨던 많은 팬 분들께 큰 실망을 안겨 드려 죄송한 마음입니다. 이 자리를 빌어 제가 연맹을 대표하여 다시 한 번 고개 숙여 사죄 드립니다.
그리고 저는 이러한 일련의 사태에 대한 심각성을 통감하고 있으며, 이에 대한 모든 책임을 지고 e스포츠연맹 회장직을 사퇴하겠습니다. 그동안 많은 사랑을 주셨던 팬 분들과 도움을 주셨던 관계자 및 선수 분들께도 사과 드리며 또한 감사하다는 말씀을 함께 드리고 싶습니다.
앞으로 절대로 이전과 같은 실수를 하지 않도록 역지사지의 마음으로 초심을 잃지 않는 e스포츠 연맹이 되도록 저희 모두 노력해 나가겠습니다. 앞으로도 저희의 잘못된 판단이나 행동에 가차없는 비판과 많은 지도 편달 부탁 드리겠습니다.
마지막으로 다시 한번 슬레이어스팀의 선수 및 관계자 분들께 진심 어린 사과의 말씀을 드립니다.
원종욱, 강동훈, 최윤상, 박외식, 박영식, 이형섭 올림.
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It's ESFI mistranslate then
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1378 Posts
On October 20 2012 08:20 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:03 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:
[quote]
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to? I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban. Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations? I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it. The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
MC tweeted that his team said to him that he cannot practice with slayers.
its unlikely it was SK
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On October 20 2012 08:20 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:03 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:
[quote]
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to? I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban. Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations? I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it. The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
According to the apology from eSF, SK hasn't been included. Thus as farnham pointed out earlier, it's very unlikely that SK had been included in the ban.
And yes, it was rhetorical. Nor is it only about the stepping down of Coach Won, it's the entire apology of eSF, never once refering to the duration of the ban, just stating that they were wrong and in extrapolation Slayers right.
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On October 20 2012 08:20 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:03 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:
[quote]
10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to? I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban. Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations? I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it. The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s )
SC2 Con fell apart because someone (unnamed person, supposely not part of SC2 anymore) tried to do something to FXO (who knows what, Boss never said). So FXO left.
Then they tried to 'sanction' TSL on hearsay, but didn't actually have the power to do anything to TSL. Plus, the story Tester and Fruitdealer told SC2Con was either made up or a severe misunderstanding (basically accused Coach Lee of embezzling money and withholding their salary). In any case, they got out of their contract with TSL and joined StarTale. TSL left SC2Con at this point (SC2Con says they were expelled for not accepting penalty, TSL says they left because the 'trial' was bull).
After all this, they were losing teams and credibility, not to mention they realized they had no power, so SC2 Con disbanded.
In their disbanding message they said they would form a new organization with more power to actually enforce their rules and all that...
The head of SC2Con? Coach Won, the (now former) head of ESF. So yes, he's been in very similar scandals before.
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I feel like everything is happening so fast in the last few days
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On October 20 2012 08:38 Ethoex wrote:
I feel like everything is happening so fast in the last few days
It's ok if you want to take a break, maybe we should see other people?
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On October 20 2012 08:29 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:20 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 08:03 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:49 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:[quote] There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF. The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to? I would if I could do a good job of it, but I'd rather leave translating to someone else more competent in it. But it would've been very strange if they would've done it, I'm sure SK management wouldn't have liked it if they knew that eSF tried to make MC part of the ban. Just as FXOBoSS isn't happy that FXO was part of the ban. Besides, why would MC post that, if it would only be normal for him not to accept such a proposal if he were on SK. Also, why would the eSF head step down and eSF writing a formal apology for all it's wrong doings, after Jessica told them to come clean because she has evidence for her accusations? I don't know why he would post that, which is why I asked about the circumstance the tweet was made under or who it was directed at. I haven't seen either. If BoSs didn't know about it, it's unlikely to think that SK management would have either. You said there was evidence that it wasn't just 17 days, but so far I don't see it. The reason the head of esf stepped down is probably because he made an incredibly bad move by implementing a ban on practise with Slayers for an unknown amound of time, and he's been involved in similar scandals before. (Was that a rhetorical question? :s ) According to the apology from eSF, SK hasn't been included. Thus as farnham pointed out earlier, it's very unlikely that SK had been included in the ban. And yes, it was rhetorical. Nor is it only about the stepping down of Coach Won, it's the entire apology of eSF, never once refering to the duration of the ban, just stating that they were wrong and in extrapolation Slayers right. But according to Jessica the ban has only been in affect during the time that MC has been on SK. I obviously don't know which is correct, I'm just asking you to not post something as fact when it's not.
eSF being wrong doesn't automatically means that SlayerS is in the right. Imho pretty much everyone involved in this has acted incredibly stupid.
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EPT
