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On October 20 2012 06:34 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:24 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:16 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:14 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:13 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. I said that it wasn't helpful. My point was that it wasn't the major catalyst in SlayerS' ultimate demise. Incompetence was. Care to explain what incompetence? they managed to win two gstls and get a player to win two championships how incompetent is that? Indeed :D. Let's see, failure to bring this to light early when something could be done, failure to monitor your own employee that plays a major role in the growth of your team, poor management of players, poor management of situations... shall I go on? Point one: Already explained earlier in this thread and the 'Slayers to disband', there's loads of reasons why it would've been bad for Slayers to bring it to light earlier. Besides, first going the road through private channels is more competent than bringing it to light early. Point two: He's been an employee for a while, and may very well have had excellent qualifications. We don't have enough information on this subject to say how and when he ruined the team. Like I've said earlier on this subject, it only shows how dangerous maliciously inclined people are. Point three: Poor management of players? I'd say the opposite, they have done alot for their players. It's not their fault they're spoiled and immature brats. Point four: Poor management of situations? When? I say this situation quite clearly shows they're competent but a competent person cannot fight when the entire conglomeration is fighting against you. Please do continue. There are also loads of reasons why to bring it to light earlier. eSF had no problems publicly outing KeSPA when they pulled out of GSL and look at the quick results that provided. Regardless of how long someone has been an employee, you don't stop monitoring them, especially when they aren't providing very good results. They handled plenty of players very poorly. Tons of pro gamers are fucking divas and a half, learning to deal with those types of personalities is part of the business. They clearly did not learn to deal with those personalities and instead just shunned/punished them while trying to ruin their image or just not bolster it. This is very, very poor player management. Attempting to bring down an organization after everything is all said and done is a sign of competence? What? It seems more to me like this is a revenge plot than some noble crusade to oust poor practices. If this was some noble crusade, then this would have been made public much earlier. Jessica has shown time and again that she is very poor at handling situations in a... civil manner. Hell, look at her recent twitter war with MC. She's on a sinking ship and suddenly grew about 100 arms to grab everyone around her and bring them down as well.
Dosey please, read up this thread and the last 20 pages of ´Slayers to disband´ thread. There´s loads of reasons explained by various persons including me as to why it would´ve been bad to release this earlier. I won´t state them all here again as that would require me copy/pasting an entire page. Besides the eSF - KeSPA conflict has no bearing on this conflict, it's entirely different, and you would've known if you had examined the other explanations (closer) earlier in this thread.
Wrong, and wrong. We don't know if Mr. J hasn't been providing good results previously, most likely he actually has or he wouldn't have gotten promoted. Secondly, monitoring your employee can only go so far. There's been countless of legal cases of excessive monitoring. Besides I doubt if Victor for example monitors every employee he has so closely as to notice malice ASAP.
Also wrong, I'd like to refer to Ballotelli for example, we all know how much of a diva he is. How are they handling him? Exactly just like Slayers was. It's unacceptable behaviour and that behaviour shouldn't be shown in players you're paying for. It's perfectly fine to punish them. You expect professional behaviour from your players, especially so if BoxeR is your mentor.
Yes, it is competence, she has managed to keep this bottled up all the way till now as to not hurt her team and players when there still was a chance to keep the team afloat. She has all the right to bring this out to light now that they have disbanded the team, as it's Boxer and Jessica that have been wronged, not the other way around. As for the twitter responses, maybe you should check the responses she is getting from her opposition. I find Jessica's responses alot more socially acceptable than others. She may be threatening quite a bit, but that's more than reasonable judging by the lying and utter ridiculousness she has to deal with.
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Verifies Jessica's story, so much drama and power hungry people destroying esports.
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On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree.
There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point.
It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. (source)
In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months.
She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then.
Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. (source)
This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts 
I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team.
I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows)
On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
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On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban.
Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it.
I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
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Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
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I always knew Jessica was right. Seem to be too many people hating on her because they don't understand how hard her position really is and for being a female. It made me mad seeing people make comments like "oh she is just a girl starting drama."
Behind the scenes this is the type of stuff people have to deal with! I hope everyone learns to not jump to wild conclusions ever again without having all the information.
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On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall.
Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person.
It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
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On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan
I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for
Will do, might take me a while to find the correct information though. Not sure myself on what page they reside. In the meantime, you may think on why everyone has uptill now apologised to Jessica with Coach Won even stepping down. Would be very unlikely that Jessica's story isn't true, no?
On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:
Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person.
It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
Sure, in the end the responsibilities may lie with Jessica, that however doesn't mean that the blame also lies with her. Contrary to popular opinion the highest employee can't know everything or prevent everything, it's scapegoating if you put the blame on the manager when she had nothing to do with what Mr. J. has done. If anything you can say she might've been a bit late on noticing the wrongdoings of Mr. J, but we don't know how exactly he has done it, and how it came to light.
The Slayers players couldn't look her in the eye because they believed she embezzled money from them, which were most probably unfounded lies spread by Mr. J. Good luck trying to have them look you in the eye again when they unconditionally seem to believe in the lies spread.
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On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf.
so it looks like slayers players did help ESF players for their matches while the same was not true vice versa
also its already proven fact that the ban was in place back in january
SK MC verified that
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On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor.
dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
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Holy shit Jessica was actually right.
Like, I had faith in her, but the stuff she said seemed to be ripped straight out of a soap opera.
Holy shit.
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On October 20 2012 07:24 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +
so it looks like slayers players did help ESF players for their matches while the same was not true vice versa
also its already proven fact that the ban was in place back in january SK MC verified that
Could you please provide a source for that? I don't necesarilly doubt you, I would just prefer to see the facts.
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On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong.
SKMC said this :
I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...
MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
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Who cares if he steps down and apologizes? He harassed a team and shunted it down the stairs for not doing exactly as he wished... he deserves to get sued for damages.
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On October 20 2012 07:26 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 07:18 bartan wrote:
Just to clear one thing , How much does this unofficial ban is ok ? one day , one week , one month ? does it make a difference ,
In my opinion enforcing players formally or informally to not to practice with some team members for any reason is unacceptable , one day or one year it doesnt matter ,
just my 2 cents
bartan I agree, I'm also wondering whether it's even legal to do so. In the US and EU I'm pretty sure it could fall under the Anti-Trust/Monopoly/Cartel laws/, unfair competition and monopoly/cartel forming to push out a competitor. dont think the KFTC will give a crap about this though
Sadly, I have to agree on that.
On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Thanks for putting that up, now I don't have to go and find that!
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On October 19 2012 18:27 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote:
Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails. haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
You're making assumptions based on no facts as well
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On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not)
Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
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On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact.
Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
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On October 20 2012 07:44 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 07:38 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:33 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 07:21 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 07:07 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 06:58 Vorenius wrote:On October 20 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 06:03 Dosey wrote:On October 20 2012 06:01 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I see a large number of posts commending the guy for admitting his mistakes and stepping down.
Fuck that.
This guy played a major role in effectively sinking BOXERS TEAM. He needs to be blacklisted from the entire industry. Lack of practice partners wouldn't play a major role in the sinking of a team. Did it help? No, definitely not. But the poor management of the team is what caused the ultimate demise, not some stupid practice embargo. 10 month of isolation from the metagame does not hurt the team morale and skills? suree. There wasn't any 10 months of isolation at any point. It's only been 6 months since NASL3 started and that's when Jessica claimed it started. But then there is the fact that Byun thanked SlayerSPuzzle for helping him practice for the GSL in June. ( source) In any case it's clear that things have been going awful internally on the Slayers team for more than 6 months. She might have meant NASL2 then? Unlikely given the amount of praise for Slayers players in interviews around that time. Whatever the situation at that time it's obvious that a lot of esf players were practising with Slayers and open about it, so definitly no ban then. Now that's not to say there weren't players who didn't like Slayers for whatever reasons they might have. MC heavily disliked Jessica for instance and gave his reasons for it. He still practised with members of Slayers though as well as help them around at foreign events. ( source) This is were facts stop and speculation from me starts I think it's very much possible that a lot of other esf players shared MC's feelings towards Jessica for various reasons. I also think it's equally possible that if you dislike the management of a team you become less inclined to help the players of said team. I personally think the training embarko was indeed lifted after just 17 days when the esf realized what they had done. Of course that doesn't necesarilly mean that esf players WANT to help Slayers but they were certainly free to do so (as the interviews shows) On a slightly related note, I find it incredibly cheap that Jessica tries to use this as the main reason SlayerS disbanded, even though she completely admitted that at points multiple players on her own team didn't want to look her in the eye! If themood was that bad in the team house then something is horribly wrong. In addition to that the team was unable to find sponsors despite being both succesfull and popular. Slayers was missrun for a long time and that doesn't have anything to do with esf. + Show Spoiler +She didn't say when NASL 3 started, but during the sign-up period. While it may not have been exactly 10 months, it can very well be close to 10 months with the information given so far. Secondly it wasn't allowed to practice with Slayers players when they needed it, nothing has been said the other way around. Maybe you should search who the Slayers players have thanked during the time? Also, they've been saying some players have been helping Slayers practice with other accounts than their main, I'm sure there are some players who've tried to help Slayers, even when there was a ban. Also, there's been information that the ban lasted longer than 17 days. Actually, even MC unintentionally seems to admit it. I think you should read up on Mr. J. and his actions before blaming anyone else. Jessica herself even says he is the main reason for their downfall. Could you please link the information debunking the 17 days then? Apparently something slipped by me during the roughly 200 pages in various threads this has been going on for Also, Jessica was the leader of SlayerS. That means it's her responsibility when the team goes bad. She can explain what happened with Mr. J but she can't use it as an excuse. At then end of the day it was her team and she hired the wrong person. It also seems the awful team atmoshpere was largely caused by her personality. If a lot of the slayers players can't look the leader of their team in the eyes, something is wrong. SKMC said this : https://twitter.com/sk__mc/status/259289813742673920I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to... MC moved from ogs to SK in january that means the ban was before january (ogs was part of sc2con or esf SK is not) Sorry, I don't speak korean. I don't know what context this was posted in. If your tranlation is correct it doesn't even say that he was on oGs when this happened. How do you know he wasn't on SK and esf asked him not to practise with someone? This isn't fact. Because the eSF wouldn't have any right to tell MC to stop practicing with TSL and Slayers when he's with SK. Thus it's completely nonsensical to say: "I practiced with TSL and Slayers even after they told me not to...". As if it's somehow a grand and honorable gesture of him to keep training with Slayers, when he's on a different team that's not associated with eSF.
The esf have included MC in many of their other decisions even though he was on SK. Do you for some reason know that in this one thing they specifically did not? Or can you at least provide a background for that tweet or translate the tweet he is likely replying to?
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On October 20 2012 07:28 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Holy shit Jessica was actually right.
Like, I had faith in her, but the stuff she said seemed to be ripped straight out of a soap opera.
Holy shit.
You know, Jessica is well known for over-reacting, not making stuff up. So I guess it was always a matter of 'how true' her allegations were. So far it's looking pretty bad for everyone else even though it's pretty much impossible for her to have be completely blameless in this.
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EPT
