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On October 20 2012 04:31 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:30 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote:
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint?
So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand. You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3Start Date as per liquipedia article.
It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid.
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On October 20 2012 04:31 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote:
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint?
So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand. Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
Seriously mate, you have more egg on your face today than Coach Won. We get it, you love MMA and hate Jessica and you are steadfastly ignoring all the facts that have been revealed that seem to support Jessica's claims. We get it.
Posting interviews from early in 2011 has no bearing whatsover on this practice ban because no-one anywhere has claimed that the practice ban was in effect at that time. Nice try to obsfucate the issue though.
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On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread.
Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
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Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports
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On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have.
Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
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On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you.
BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
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On October 20 2012 05:07 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:31 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 04:30 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote:
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint?
So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand. You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3Start Date as per liquipedia article. It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid.
In the Jessica's reaction to the "Preliminary ESF reaction in fomos article." (link to TLs 'Slayers to disband' post), she mentioned dates around end of December, when she claims she known about the practice ban (probably she has known that even before that). Since we have October so we can say its about 10 months
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On October 20 2012 05:29 MrPuff wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:31 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 04:30 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote:
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint?
So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand. You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3Start Date as per liquipedia article. It's impossible to have a 10 month practice ban as Jessica stated if it started with NASL3, as there is no 10 months yet. Your whole point was that since TeeTs' date were before NASL3, they are not valid. In the Jessica's reaction to the "Preliminary ESF reaction in fomos article." ( link to TLs 'Slayers to disband' post), she mentioned dates around end of December, when she claims she known about the practice ban (probably she has known that even before that). Since we have October so we can say its about 10 months
That's correct. I'm just saying his reasoning (NASL3 date) doesn't make any sense.
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On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote:
Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports
The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman.
On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism.
Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish.
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So typical. There always has to be 1 person some where that happens to be a conspiracy nut. Randomly point out things and attempts to link them some how to prove a point that makes no sense.
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Jessica mentioned that the practice ban started when she allow her players to apply for the NASL season 3 preliminary. The preliminary was held in early Feb. so the players would have to make their intention to participate known sometimes in January or earlier which would make sense in term of the ban length
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On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
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On October 20 2012 05:31 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote:
Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism. Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish.
He isn't the best PR, but that's not his job. Regardless, he is still much better than Jessica. As for what he does? He's effectively a sponsor.
On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic.
They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
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On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
Besides, playing nice =/= fair deals. So, yes, revealing it in public would hurt Slayers.
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On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:31 Bagration wrote:On October 20 2012 05:21 DavoS wrote:
Dang, they must realize how big of a blow SlayerS dissolving was to the image of esports The fall of Slayers reminds me of the bankruptcy of the US company Lehman Brothers during the financial crisis in 2008. In both cases, the fall of the institution created a panic, and also revealed the systemic flaws and issues within the community and the financial sector respectively. The fall of Slayers has certainly opened a Pandora's box of drama and chaos, though of course not on the scale of Lehman. On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. FXOBoSs? Please. I don't know what he does behind the scene, but PR-wise he is terrible. His blog is usually passive aggressive bullshit (though he might occasionally have some good insider information). You want to see a good team manager, look at a guy like Nazgul, not BoSs. I'm not even a fan of TL, but you can't deny that Nazgul does a great job, especially on PR. Why, because he doesn't get involved in petty twitter wars and shit, and maintains that important perception of professionalism. Calling out people publically is a measure of last resort, and anyone who does it whimsically is foolish. He isn't the best PR, but that's not his job. Regardless, he is still much better than Jessica. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net.
Just because FXO is a finance company does not mean that BoSs is a finance genius. Secondly, finance is not the same thing as negotiation and PR. Thirdly, never underestimate the power of having strong relationships and networks. Only a fool ruins business relationships thoughtlessly.
As for Jessica, she has her own PR issues and problems, and a lot of them. As for PR, everyone affliated with the team FXO has PR responsibilities. If Gumiho tweets something offensive, that hurts FXO's PR, even though he is just a player. BoSs might have other responsibilities, but maintaining good PR is definitely something he needs to do, and him neglecting it just seems foolish and detrimental to FXO.
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On October 20 2012 05:45 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net. You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately.
I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter. From all sides, I should add.
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On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog.
I read his blog, and I am still chuckling about that guy caught tossing off on stream! My point is that if you get into a public slanging match with someone, is that going to improve your relationship with that person? Are Jessica and MC going to be closer after their recent back and forth on twitter? No, is the answer.
Jessica was trying to work with her counter-parts in order to mend this breach in their relationship and she must have felt that public disclosure of their behaviour would have irreparably destroyed the possibility of any working relationship in the future. People DO hold grudges. It is hard to judge without being on the inside of this particular situation.
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On October 20 2012 05:46 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:45 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:On October 20 2012 03:14 Forgottenfrog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote:
Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;; I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported. This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes. Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick. Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net. You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately. I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter.
When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
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On October 20 2012 05:49 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:46 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:45 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:On October 20 2012 03:19 felisconcolori wrote:
[quote]
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW. I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net. You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately. I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter. When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying?
If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
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On October 20 2012 05:53 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 05:49 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:46 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:45 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:41 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:39 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 05:29 achan1058 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:23 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:On October 20 2012 03:29 Forgottenfrog wrote:
[quote]
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
I agree with you; bringing his up before Slayers disbanded wouldn't have done anything. If anything people would have called her a whiner and tell her to deal with it / your team shoudln't need others to practice. Which, basically half the 'haters' threw out in the 'Slayers to disband' thread. Slayers disbanding put the weight and gravity behind this issue that just complaining while your team's results tanked wouldn't have. Also if you publicly call out everyone on the other teams by revealing this ostracism and boycott then it is hardly likely to make them be more friendly towards you. It is more likely to harden their attitude towards you. BoSs believes that it helps. I agree with him. Read his blog. Then he is simply wrong. Publicly calling out a person on wrongdoings will only make that person like you less. The only thing you might achieve is more community awareness and control on the ESF and organizations. But to think that you do not get a big hit in your relations with other teams is ridiculous logic. They don't have to like you to play nice with you. I trust a guy in Finance more than a random person on the net. You trust a person in finance more than a random person on the net? I dare say financially inclined jobs have the least inclined persons to be fair and honest with you. I especially dare to say so after the financial crisises lately. I rather trust a guy with malice than a guy with incompetence. BoSs might possibly be the former, but the issues that lead up to Slayers disbanding is definitely with the latter. When and where did Jessica and Boxer show incompetence? Also, I wonder why you would trust a guy with malice more than a guy with incompetence. Isn't the one with malice more inclined to best you when lying? If a malicious guy is on your side, you can rely on him, for that little while...... Also, eSF wasn't the only reason why SlayerS disbanded. There are lots of preventable internal issues as well.
If, indeed. How to know for sure though? (Actually, isn't this part of the fall of Slayers? Monsieur J?)
Still doesn't show that Jessica or Boxer have been incompetent throughout Slayer's timeline.
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