On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
Sounds like eSF is doing great. I'm sure they didn't overextend the market and can handle KeSPA competing with them.
It is a matter of time before KeSPA disbands 8th team and replaces 8th Team and Air Force Ace with LG-IM and StarTale. Next season?
Only certainty at the moment is that there cannot be 2 SC2 team leagues in Korea with the current market. The Purse for GSL hasn't really been going up, many GSL teams are having trouble putting up their names deep in the major tournaments, and several GSL teams have disbanded: Slayers and ogs, others are on the verge of disbanding: NSHS.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
Their response is completely justified. Pandora's box is open, and ESF has lost almost all of its credibility. I hope that it does fall.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
OP needs to add this, also wow, this is exactly how I feel, I dont think I can actually like Startales anymore, I love their players, but their coach was a total dick and singled out one team to hate.
Wow, Korean business seem to have alot more morals than Western companies. I could not see anyother sports league coming out and admitting fault like this with full apology after being called out by a very small group of people. It's nice to know people can still admit when there wrong.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
OP needs to add this, also wow, this is exactly how I feel, I dont think I can actually like Startales anymore, I love their players, but their coach was a total dick and singled out one team to hate.
Wasn't he on the first episode of GSL GNN this season (#1 - coach Won, #2 - MKP, #3 - Nestea). He seemed nice, but now I'm not sure I can bring myself to rewatch it knowing how he acted. Also, Nestea would be great as head of esf if he wanted to do it.
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
I feel the same way as most of these Korean netizens. Yes they issue an apology but nothing has changed. There were more people involved than coach Won. Replace Coach Won with another member of the ESF who would have done the same thing to Slayer. If they apologize before Slayers disbanded than I'll understand but to do after the team has gone to shit is kind of too late. I am glad there is an apology though because now we know for a fact that ESF is acting like kespa. What are we going to find out next? That Manager J was sent by ESF. Seriously I lost all hope for ESF when they lifted the restriction for Slayers and continue it "unofficially." Shady businesses should not be supported.
This is why people are upset that Jessica is only bringing this up now, after SlayerS is to be disbanded. She could have said much the same thing last December, when SlayerS was still in a position that could be salvaged. As for Manager J, sources suggest he is not an eSF individual so please don't suggest that even jokingly. Half the people in this twisted world of internet telephone games will be posting it as fact on Reddit in 20 minutes.
Replacement for Coach Won should be a player, preferably one who has enough stature and credibility to say "This will not happen again" and have it stick.
Imagine if Slayers brought it up before it was disbanded. Then ESF would be on a witch hunt for the person who told Jessica about the unofficial restriction on Slayers. It is sad that ESF acted that way and even sadder that slayers is disabanded. I hope that there will be changes but to just replace coach Won doesn't seem to be enough. What will stop the next person who steps up from doing the same thing? All they have to do is be even more discrete about it. I love watching sc2 and wish it would prosper but these shady business practices makes me want to stop. The same reason I don't support MoW.
This is why I say it should be a player, not a coach, and one with stature and credibility. Players look at things differently than coaches, and there are players who are also good, ethical people that could take a lead on ensuring that eSF doesn't do such things again.
As far as a witch hunt... sure, eSF could have started a witch hunt. Under the glaring spotlight of the public scrutiny, and the various communities of fans that would probably scream bloody murder first about the action itself (as they are now) and then any fall-out that could fall on SlayerS (for speaking up about it) and the players who told Jessica. Because of the nature of both the eSports industry and the very public facing nature of the eSF, they must maintain the goodwill of their fans or they lack any kind of credibility and sustainability. Any kind of backlash would be quickly outed - anything that even looked like backlash would be questioned, loudly and publicly. The bane of any shady business practices is the harsh spotlight brought on by the court of public opinion. (Any entertainment professional can tell you this - for example, Jessica. Whatever faults she may have, she is an accomplished actress and understands the importance of public reputation.)
On October 20 2012 03:03 jinorazi wrote: i honestly wouldnt mind watching a korean drama based on starcraft, i think there's a few bits and pieces here and there to make one interesting. get to work(pitching it to the industry) jessica!
Maybe it's time for another fanfic... ideas are in my head.
Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote: Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails.
haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad!
lol so people who think jessica was telling the truth are ignorant and people who think shes lying aren't? What the fuck kind of logic is that? Unless you can show some definitive proof that he's just some "Scapegoat" and not actually responsible for some mistakes, then you just made yourself an arrogant ass
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
You realize that it hasn't been 10 months since NASL season 3 began (the date you given) right?
On October 20 2012 04:01 TeeTS wrote: Since most people here still don't seem to understand what's going on, I will explain what's going on and what may happen:
First: The Practice embargo The point that causes all the drama. First of all, it was totally wrong by the teams to put this onto Slayers. The big point though is, that the eSF teams recognized it shortly (a period of 17days is the only exact number we have and there is NO evidence brought up until now, that it lasted longer) and ended it after 17 days without any external pressure!!!, since noone knew about it. The interesting part regarding the issue we have now is, that Jessica's description of the embargo was nowhere even close to the reality, but extremely overdramatic and exaggerated, claiming that it went on for about 10months, while evidence that this wasn't the case is quickly found:
Conclusion: It's very clear what she intended to do with this. She wanted to cause major damage to eSF and its teams (since eSF is formed directly out of the participating teams, all of them: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL will take major damage from this drama) with the possibility to destroy them. The reason why she did this is still unclear since there are several possibilities: It may just've been out of revenge, it may even been connected to Boxers Promotion as a head coach of a Kespa team. We will likely never know what her reasons were. But what she did remains and I can't imagine that she didn't do this on purpose.
Second: consequences To get a first taste of the consequences of this issue we can simply look at this:
On October 20 2012 02:57 SeeKeR wrote: Some comments by Korean netizens: (Sources are from fomos and TIG)
"wtf? So only coach Won is going to step down and issue an apology? What about the other ESF staff members? Where's their apology? What about the players who agreed with this whole SlayerS restriction? Where's their apology?"
"So coach Won steps down and another asshole from ESF who also agreed with the SlayerS restriction gets to take his spot. Yeah, everything's been fixed."
"Just get rid of ESF already. You guys are not needed."
"You say you guys are working together for the future of eSports. You think singling out a team and putting a restriction on them, bullying them, and forcing players not to practice with that team is going to help the future of eSports? You guys are all full of shit and none of you deserve to be working for eSports."
"You call this an apology? An elementary student could have written this crap."
"I love how they are issuing an apology after everything went to hell. Good job guys. You guys are real mature. Way to step it up."
"What the hell. Yeah, okay. So he steps down from his ESF position but he still remains as a coach for StarTale. You guys haven't fixed anything."
"Don't even bother spewing up bull crap about an apology. All of you who were in involved with this bullying, gtfo."
Holy crap... Korean netizens Oo;;
The second taste may follow tomorrow/tonight (depends on where you live ) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene: eSF basically stands directly for its teams: ST, IM, Prime, MVP, NSHS, FXO and TSL. When eSF goes down those teams will definately go down too and GOM together with GSL will follow. Before you call me a conspirator now, I want to remind you to this:
This was only prevented due to the power the teams had together as eSF. Things that I could imagine coming up, if eSF falls are: "Kespa pulling back every player from GSL", "no eSF players allowed in next OSL" basically all the teams mentioned may go down if the support from the local (korean) scene breaks away. And if you look at the quote from Seeker, this is very likely to happen if things don't calm down quickly there. -_-
On October 20 2012 04:22 lambac0re wrote: Teets, have you even looked at the dates on those links you gave? Those were from 2011. Since you're a big fan of dates, does that mean anything to you? Let's think a moment on when NASL season 3 began (April 11, 2012) and when the practice embargo began. Get the hint? So before you make sensationalist claims, at least make sure your "evidence" even applies to the case at hand.
Jessica (and only she) stated that the embargo went on for 10 months. I don't know hor far your mathmatical skills go, but if the embargo started in april 2012, it's impossible that it lasted 10months. So IF Jessica was true, it had to be started earlier. And to prove that even earlier dates are not possible those interviews are there. But nice try little boy!
it was already proven indirectly by SKMC that the embargo started before january 2012 since he said that he helped slayers when he was in ogs
EPT
) with the GSL finals coming up. It will be a first indicator of how big the damage taken is. You all should think about how things are connected in the korean scene:
