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On October 20 2012 01:24 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:21 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 20 2012 00:21 mtn wrote:On October 19 2012 18:27 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote:
Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails. haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad! No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING? An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight. How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO. That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward. There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair. As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger. wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad. its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.".
How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc.
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On October 20 2012 01:42 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:24 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:21 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 20 2012 00:21 mtn wrote:On October 19 2012 18:27 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote:
Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails. haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad! No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING? An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight. How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO. That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward. There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair. As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger. wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad. its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.". How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc.
cause there... was a screenshot..... of MC... saying it T_T
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If they did anything to hurt slayers then they should not get our forgiveness slayers was the best team ever and now its gone
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I can't believe after all this and pros and won himself exposing what Jessica stated is true, that yall still have some kind of hatred towards her.
The fact you think that her exposing the dirty work that esf does behind closed doors is bad for reports, etc is mindblowing
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On October 20 2012 01:42 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:42 revel8 wrote:On October 20 2012 01:24 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:21 Ansinjunger wrote:On October 20 2012 00:21 mtn wrote:On October 19 2012 18:27 TeeTS wrote:On October 19 2012 18:17 silent_owl wrote:
Jessica-haters proven wrong. I knew it. Good for Boxer and Jessica, justice prevails. haha you don't know how this world works, do you? He stepped down, because of the pressure that ignorant fans put on him, believing everything they are said first without thinking "what?" and "why?". He is a scapegoat to calm down the athmosphere, nothing more nothing less. This proves nothing, especially not justice. But yeah, live on in your shiny world of good and bad! No. He apologized to Slayers and Jessica for the things he did to them. WHY WOULD HE APOLOGIZED TO THEM IF HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING? An apology does not make an accusation true, unless it specifically says, "I'm sorry for] <the stuff you said I did, which I did>." Even then, public opinion is apparently so bad against him and eSF, he's not in a position to put up much of a fight. I don't know if he brought a knife to a gunfight or if Jessica brought a gun to a knife fight. How do we know SlayerS was the only team that was bullied? How do we know if it isn't just a case of usual Internet BM, with a little extra hate for SlayerS since people were jealous of them, what with Boxer and back to back GSTL victories, Intel sponsorship, Troy, general popularity among the public. I've seen a lot of accusations about how SlayerS players were supposedly spoiled, with regards to MMA and Crank supposedly acting up. It's not hard to imagine that other teams' players felt jealous or spiteful, plus the SlayerS players could have done their share of BM back, some harmless and some less so, but up til now, Jessica has been the only one collecting evidence, which seems to be her MO. That jealousy and resulting BM towards SlayerS isn't necessarily connected with the practice ban. It's completely plausible that eSF began this practice ban and then realized a lot of their players already felt some resentment against SlayerS players and then revoked the ban later. However, that wouldn't necessarily stop some players from still practicing the ban for months afterward. There are so many possibilities as to how it could have played out. At least, whether his hand was forced or not, Coach Won of Startale is taking some responsibility for how his team may have behaved. Jessica has scarce taken any responsibility for her or her players' actions, and instead turned that into another battle. She has largely said, "poor Boxer, look what they've done to him," and whether true or not, people have bought it. There isn't even any mention of age or injury as to other reasons Boxer may have lost drive. Maybe MMA did something bad and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, yet he and Crank take all the blame because of Jessica's story. That's hardly fair. As to Boxer, his silence isn't necessarily acceptance of whatever Jessica does. How should Boxer find fault with someone who is defending him? That might make her really mad and think he's ungrateful, too. This is, imo, more Jessica's battle than it is Boxer's, even if she really thinks she's doing it for him. It's possible he's just waiting for the situation to die down. His word carries a lot of weight--too much for those who will respond with hate if he places blame, and he probably recognizes that danger. wow you really are trying to make jessica look bad. its already confirmed by mc, by ace by the disclosed e-mail from coach won that the practice ban existed and it is clear that esf wanted slayers to join them (the disclosed e/mail says "practice ban is lifted. come join us.". How do we know the ex-OGS player was MC? Has he admitted it? It could be several candidates, ForGG, Hero etc. cause there... was a screenshot..... of MC... saying it T_T
OK. Just seen that latest development in this drama.
It does appear to support Jessica's claims about Slayers members being discriminated against and ostracized by other Korean teams and players. Sad to see. Ironically the Slayer's players must have felt Idra was less BM towards them than some other Korean players!
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On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote:
I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing.
In a ring or an octagon?
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On October 20 2012 01:38 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 00:51 Mo0Rauder wrote:
How does a team lose all their sponsors after winning Team League? How exactly iss random manager "J" responsible for losing the teams sponsors, when Jessica was the person running/in ownership of the team?
A lot of people come off as if this is "boxer's team" Boxer accepted a job with SKT1 and never "owned" Slayers. Sure, it had his name in the title, and he was a player on the team, but he also has close ties with SKT. Who can say if he would or would not have gone to SKT1 even if all this drama never took place, perhaps he would have been the one jumping ship to join SKT1 regardless of drama?
I'm not making statements, such as "slayers vs kespa" or "jessica is guilty/innocent"
I'm just asking questions, something a lot more people need to do in this thread. We don't know all the information, so either wait for it, or be aware that you might be spouting a fountain of shit.
I will miss SlayerS, good luck to the players. well its actually very easy, if jessica did indeed allow manager J to handle all foreign sponsorship like she said. here's one scenario where they lose sponsorship easy: slayers wins team league, manager J thinks 'oh this is a great time to ask for more money from the sponsors', but the sponsors refuse to put more money and sponsorship is lost. and manager j just turns around and tells jessica 'oh they dont want to continue their sponsorship anymore, sorry' theres many different ways u can lose a sponsor. but i dont know why there seems to be no communication between the sponsors and jessica, like if manager j was asking for too much or asking for stupid deals, i think the sponsors would just go over him and contact jessica directly.
We both know how ridiculous that scenario is, you even said hinted as such. It would make no sense to have "Manager J" in charge of the sponsors and not be checking up on things on both the sponsors end and "J's" end on a frequent basis if you are in Jessica's shoes is not good for business. If somehow "Manager J" did fuck up the sponsors, why did it fester for so long? How was he able to influence anything without Jessica knowing about it? Why wouldn't the sponsors contact Jessica and say inquire as to what the situation was? I have more questions but I'll save them for another post.
I'm not going to form a a conclusion on the matter until there is more information, but to me it seems like Jessica completely lost control of the situation.. but does that really come as a shock to anyone?
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I knew the Emporess wasn't crazy! I mean it wasn't well handled but she didn't imagine it all.
A little too late but at least ESF is accepting responsibility for their actions. They haven't gone full KeSPA on us.
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With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down.
Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
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On October 20 2012 01:24 MONXY FIST wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 19:27 blarkh wrote:On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote:
I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right? No he is the person who thinks scandals should be covered up because people "might lose their jobs" or "it might tarnish the reputation of Organization x".
The usual one around here is "if we don't cover this up IT'LL HURT ESPORTS!" (for reference see every single drama thread in recent weeks where people use the words "pitchfork", "witch hunt" and "feminazi redditers"). Of course ignoring the fact that covering things up generally makes things exponentially worse when they're inevitably found out (which, in fact, this situation demonstrates as all of this was covered up for so long and now its only come out in the process of taking down Slayers along with it).
I just don't understand the immaturity of some people. Some people in this community have a lot to learn with regards to the real world and how things work in it; especially with regard to public relations. Covering things up is rarely ever the best way to handle things.
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On October 20 2012 02:14 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down. Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power.
I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
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On October 19 2012 19:43 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 19:35 MCXD wrote:On October 19 2012 19:32 sekritzzz wrote:On October 19 2012 19:28 MCXD wrote:On October 19 2012 19:27 blarkh wrote:On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote:
I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right? That's a stupid analogy. I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly. No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy. Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her. They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene. that's a logical failure you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle.
QFT, why all the hate towards Jessica guys??? I guess next time I see corruption... I'll sit by and let it happen, hey it doesn't effect me right? And you wonder why big companies don't sponsor ESF. Would have never imagined that SC2 would create the younger evil brother of KeSPA who would destroy Boxers team. By the way, hes the main reason starcraft is an Esport still, especially in Korea.
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On October 20 2012 02:30 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:14 Bagration wrote:With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down. Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power. I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again.
Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
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On October 20 2012 01:58 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote:
I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing. In a ring or an octagon?
I already proposed that they should have both, in the same spirit as chess-boxing. Alternate rounds of SC2 and MMA (the sport, not the player lol)
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On October 20 2012 02:31 dark_dragoon10 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 19:43 shadymmj wrote:On October 19 2012 19:35 MCXD wrote:On October 19 2012 19:32 sekritzzz wrote:On October 19 2012 19:28 MCXD wrote:On October 19 2012 19:27 blarkh wrote:On October 19 2012 19:23 MCXD wrote:
I like how Jessica felt it necessary to basically destroy the existing SC2 scene on her way out.
That's sarcasm, by the way. Because seriously, even if the ESF management is a bunch of assholes, does she realize what she's done? She might have just started a chain reaction that would ruin the careers of a lot of other, innocent (or ill-informed) people with her irrational emo dump. You would have to be insane to support this.
This is precisely why the SlayerS players had friction with her >_> So you're that guy that thinks the Mafia shouldn't be brought down because it would increase Sicilian unemployment, right? That's a stupid analogy. I don't think you get the analogy if you think it's stupid. It fits perfectly. No, because the mafia is an international crime ring, not a 'bully' in a niche industry surrounding a video game. SlayerS wasn't happy under the ESF, but a lot more people are going to be unhappy if the Korean SC2 scene disappears. If the mafia disappears, a lot more people will be happy than unhappy. Even if you are personally invested in BoxeR and Jessica emotionally (which the koreans are), it would suck a lot more if the 7 other teams all fell apart. Especially since the players were only following the orders from their management anyway. It's not Mvp's fault or responsibility (for example) that Jessica had a hard time, it was his coach/manager's, but now he's at risk because of her. They should never have bullied SlayerS in the first place. Absolutely not. But Jessica should have thought this through a little more, before doing something so... threatening to the entire scene. that's a logical failure you should never blame the whistleblower, no matter which way they choose to blow the whistle. QFT, why all the hate towards Jessica guys??? I guess next time I see corruption... I'll sit by and let it happen, hey it doesn't effect me right? And you wonder why big companies don't sponsor ESF. Would have never imagined that SC2 would create the younger evil brother of KeSPA who would destroy Boxers team. By the way, hes the main reason starcraft is an Esport still, especially in Korea.
I dislike this because she threw her players under a bus. Respectable person do not do that no matter what difficulties they had.
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On October 20 2012 02:35 mikedebo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:58 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 01:02 mikedebo wrote:
I think Mr Chae should arrange a Boxer vs MMA showmatch before GSL finals, fuck it. At least something really entertaining will come out of this whole thing. In a ring or an octagon? I already proposed that they should have both, in the same spirit as chess-boxing. Alternate rounds of SC2 and MMA (the sport, not the player lol)
You missed the joke about Boxer = boxing >.<V
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ESF are a piece of sh*. They made SlayerS's players feel like outcasts, bullying them, and mocking them at foreign tournaments. Stuff like this can lead to team turmoil. I mean you can only endure bullying for so long until you want out.
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and i thought people were praising esf for being the opposite of kespa...
HAHAHAHHA
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On October 20 2012 02:34 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:30 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 20 2012 02:14 Bagration wrote:With the short notice I have thought about this event and without any hesitation, I apologize to Team Slayers on how we have behaved. Also the Federation and it's eight team's managers have made bad decisions and that lead to harming Team Slayers and the manager Kim Ga Yeon and for that we apologize. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and I apologize with my head down. Fuck you man! You give us these fucking empty words after Slayers is dead?! I thought the Federation was supposed to promote eSports, not turn on a fellow team and ostracize them. I thought ESF was going to be better, an organization that actually cared about the scene rather than savage a team for their own power. I agree, but you have to remember he's at least admitted that they did something wrong and now they're trying to publicize it hopes that it wont happen again. Slayers is still dead. This is just a PR move to try to save face.
It's still the right thing to do. They can't revive the Slayers team. At this point the fact that they're taking some responsibility for what happened shows that they care enough about their image that they're willing to do the right thing. It also gives us precedence, meaning that this will unlikely happen again.
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EPT
