EPTyou always so half witted?
im not angry, just implying that maybe you should read a book. get those brain cells firing. stop huffing paint fumes maybe relax and give your ego a break for a day or two.
Pump units out faster as Z - Page 2
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
you always so half witted? im not angry, just implying that maybe you should read a book. get those brain cells firing. stop huffing paint fumes maybe relax and give your ego a break for a day or two. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Fact 1: A 200 pop zerg army will generally and constantly lose to a 200 pop toss or terran army. SubFact1: The zerg army makes up for this by the fact it can replenish its army quickly allowing a limited time for the opposing player to push. Now if this stay it is only fair that Banshee's cloaking, Vikings transform mode receive the same punishment. Is Blizzard trying to give people arthritis and wear keyboards down by this? | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: I'm seeing the discussion going away from the original topic which is why I'll add my 2 cents here. Still I have to say this change is very stupid. Zerg has weaker units that are supposed to die and replenished unlike other races, everyone knows this including Blizzard. That's the way it works. 40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Fact 1: A 200 pop zerg army will generally and constantly lose to a 200 pop toss or terran army. SubFact1: The zerg army makes up for this by the fact it can replenish its army quickly allowing a limited time for the opposing player to push. Now if this stay it is only fair that Banshee's cloaking, Vikings transform mode receive the same punishment. Is Blizzard trying to give people arthritis and wear keyboards down by this? agreed 100%!!!! anyone with really high apm can easily work around this nerf but for most people its not gonna make things harder just make them really fucking annoying. and then we have to listen to a bunch of noobs like stiver tell me its to make it more balanced. | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
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DoomFox
Canada51 Posts
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:31 AssuredVacancy wrote: You can't compare it to protoss because protoss is never put in a situation where he has to make 40+ units in one round of production, where as for zerg i can imagine a lot of late game situations where the zerg trades his army with the terran, and he's remaxing with 40-50 pairs of lings + ultras. I just don't see why blizzard felt that it should be removed. That's actually a good point, Z players going mass ling will be producing many more units over the course of the game than the other two races. With mass hydra/roach though this isn't so much the case. On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: 40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Two things. As I said before, P players warping in zealots are using 1Z[click][click][click][click][click][click] and not on the minimap either. So it's far slower even than the change would be. Not sure how terran players tend to setup their hotkeys but with add-ons they can be producing from more than 6 types of buildings (think about nukes in the ghost academy too). Either way it's far slower and marines are often replaced at a high rate as well. To your point about APM, you are right. However I'm thinking more in a sense of racial balance I guess. I'm not saying that I'm for sure 100% right, there are a lot of variables to consider, but it's just a thought that occurred to me. On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: I'm seeing the discussion going away from the original topic which is why I'll add my 2 cents here. Still I have to say this change is very stupid. Zerg has weaker units that are supposed to die and replenished unlike other races, everyone knows this including Blizzard. That's the way it works. Haha, probably my fault. Not sure there is much that can be said about jmodo-ing though, Zelniq confirmed that it does work. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:08 Smurfz wrote: I don't know if anyones posted this yet, but you can also old-school click the zergling button while pressing Z and X, so 3x faster than spamming Z. That's actually great, thanks for posting. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
"40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced." To be fair you also have to physically place each Zealot on the map on a power source which in and of itself is a hell of a lot hard to do than tapping 'z' 20 times. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:09 JoeSchmoe wrote: it's sad because I didn't even know you could hold down one key until today.. There's perhaps dozens of things you or I don't know about gameplay mechanics that only a few know. This one was actually posted on TL a long time ago and many people actually came up with it on their own. I don't understand why this was a problem. Quite frankly I see a lot more balance problems in pretty much lots of matchups however it is this little unit production technique which gets addressed. This is however an element that is outside the traditional game play mechanics which is why I argue it shouldn't be left as it is. My RTS design philosophy is centered on micro and macro principles which are both subject to APM but given APM a higher importance rather than strategy is not fine with me. | ||
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SilverJohnny
United States885 Posts
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
I dont mind the game requiring a little more apm, but jamming the same key 40 times every conflict late game is not a fun feature. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:12 Stiver wrote: Luckily I Just ignore trolls. "40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced." To be fair you also have to physically place each Zealot on the map on a power source which in and of itself is a hell of a lot hard to do than tapping 'z' 20 times. That's what you get for deciding where you want to place your units. Zerg doesn't get this little advantage and that's fine that's the game design conception behind it. Believe me I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to build my zerglings at your base ignoring your choke. | ||
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ZeR
Australia15 Posts
I have to agree that it will make Zerg a much more APM intensive race to play, probably not that enjoyable to casual players like me. | ||
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Askesis
216 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:21 genopath wrote: That's what you get for deciding where you want to place your units. Zerg doesn't get this little advantage and that's fine that's the game design conception behind it. Believe me I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to build my zerglings at your base ignoring your choke. That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army. | ||
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
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DoubleLariat
Canada190 Posts
EDIT: I tried - nothing happened. never mind. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
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