EPTOn December 04 2010 16:08 Smurfz wrote:
I don't know if anyones posted this yet, but you can also old-school click the zergling button while pressing Z and X, so 3x faster than spamming Z.
Pump units out faster as Z
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:08 Smurfz wrote: I don't know if anyones posted this yet, but you can also old-school click the zergling button while pressing Z and X, so 3x faster than spamming Z. | ||
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tok
United States691 Posts
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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nikj
Canada669 Posts
On December 04 2010 14:57 tok wrote: I just hold down Z like a pro ya dig? Didn't read the patch notes eh? | ||
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ferristic
United States13 Posts
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Frunkis
United States146 Posts
On December 04 2010 14:57 tok wrote: I just hold down Z like a pro ya dig? That's a bug exploit! | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
In fact it's probably why I lose a lot of ZvZs, and suddenly everyone is crying about it? Not that big of a deal, I've been doing it for months and am still decent;y ranked diamond. Seems like outrageous effort to just bind two keys to one unit. Just my thought. | ||
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:02 ferristic wrote: awesome, gotta tell my zerg friend about this. he was complaining earlier, told him it would be okay :D (sorry if this is a complete derail) I'm not so sure I understand the zerg complaints about this. I understand that yes, it's more difficult but Z players in BW never complained about having to press 1sz 2sz 3sz etc. Seems to me that a system of 1szzzzzz still seems pretty simple and easy comparatively. I also think there is a considerable though subtle balance issue here as well, remember that for P players to warp in units it would be 1S[click][click][click][click][click]Z[click][click][click][click]. For terran it's even more complicated, having to switch between production buildings and between buildings of the same type with different ad-ons. With the button holding system it seems to me that this gives an unfair advantage to zerg, especially as the game goes into the late game. What do you guys think about that? Also to the OP: Good find, lol perhaps we can call it "jmodo-ing"? | ||
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:07 Stiver wrote: I feel like I'm the only one in the world that assumed you couldn't just hold down a prodution unit up till now. I've been clicking the entire time since I switched to Zerg in August ><. In fact it's probably why I lose a lot of ZvZs, and suddenly everyone is crying about it? Not that big of a deal, I've been doing it for months and am still decent;y ranked diamond. Seems like outrageous effort to just bind two keys to one unit. Just my thought. I know it seems like you rarely get in situations where you have to quickly pump out 20-40 larvae or so worth of units, but it does happen. 1.13 you would have no trouble, it would take you maybe 2 seconds at most to queue up. 1.2 makes it sooo much harder, try pressing a button (or a string of buttons) 30 times. Just try it. It's a pain in the derriere. The method just eases it a bit, I don't see why high level players would not do this. Those precious seconds are important man, even early game. | ||
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:11 TheToast wrote: Also to the OP: Good find, lol perhaps we can call it "jmodo-ing"? Haha that would make my life xD | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
@Zelniq, sure if Forcefields were a bug and never intended to give you an advantage in the first place I'd sympathize with losing it. Maybe I'm bitter because I haven't been using this bug, but it's fixed now so no point in crying over it. I mean no other race can do it too right? | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:11 TheToast wrote: (sorry if this is a complete derail) I'm not so sure I understand the zerg complaints about this. I understand that yes, it's more difficult but Z players in BW never complained about having to press 1sz 2sz 3sz etc. Seems to me that a system of 1szzzzzz still seems pretty simple and easy comparatively. I also think there is a considerable though subtle balance issue here as well, remember that for P players to warp in units it would be 1S[click][click][click][click][click]Z[click][click][click][click]. For terran it's even more complicated, having to switch between production buildings and between buildings of the same type with different ad-ons. With the button holding system it seems to me that this gives an unfair advantage to zerg, especially as the game goes into the late game. What do you guys think about that? Also to the OP: Good find, lol perhaps we can call it "jmodo-ing"? In broodwar 1 click makes all the selected larva that unit, so to make 40 pairs of lings you just need to press sz 4 times. You can't compare it to protoss because protoss is never put in a situation where he has to make 40+ units in one round of production, where as for zerg i can imagine a lot of late game situations where the zerg trades his army with the terran, and he's remaxing with 40-50 pairs of lings + ultras. I just don't see why blizzard felt that it should be removed. | ||
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B-Wong
United States240 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:11 TheToast wrote: (sorry if this is a complete derail) I'm not so sure I understand the zerg complaints about this. I understand that yes, it's more difficult but Z players in BW never complained about having to press 1sz 2sz 3sz etc. Seems to me that a system of 1szzzzzz still seems pretty simple and easy comparatively. I also think there is a considerable though subtle balance issue here as well, remember that for P players to warp in units it would be 1S[click][click][click][click][click]Z[click][click][click][click]. For terran it's even more complicated, having to switch between production buildings and between buildings of the same type with different ad-ons. With the button holding system it seems to me that this gives an unfair advantage to zerg, especially as the game goes into the late game. What do you guys think about that? Also to the OP: Good find, lol perhaps we can call it "jmodo-ing"? In BW, all the larvae turned into whatever you pressed at the press of one button. I.E. 3 idle larvae, 1sd, 3 drones made. It's a fast macro system but I guess 1sddddddddddd(or whatever hotkey you have) shouldn't be too much of a problem if you've played zerg regularly. I find myself doing this a lot before the mechanic change but in terms of replenishing an army, it's just not as fast which makes me cry. say you came out of a huge battle with pretty heavy losses but so did the other opponent. Luckily you have 3 bases with leftover larvae because you were 200/200. Before: 1st(hold). Now: 1stttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt (individual presses). The speed is a bit worrying but adaptation is good, I guess. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:27 Stiver wrote: I mean no other race can do it too right? Both other races can queue up units in order by just selecting multiple buildings at a time and holding down the appropriate hotkey. Since zerg is (generally, due to creep spreading) more mechanically intense overall, this change doesn't make too much sense without changing anything to make the other races more difficult. (I play P btw) | ||
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:27 Stiver wrote: Okay, Jmodo you're explaining to me to try and hit a unit button 30 times, right after I finished telling you that's how I've been playing the game for 5 months. @Zelniq, sure if Forcefields were a bug and never intended to give you an advantage in the first place I'd sympathize with losing it. Maybe I'm bitter because I haven't been using this bug, but it's fixed now so no point in crying over it. I mean no other race can do it too right? Re-read your comment and then mine. I was explaining why this technique isn't ridiculous. Those few seconds matter-- it's like you said why you have been losing ZvZ's. So yes, it's a bit of effort to get it set up, but in the long run you are going to be much faster. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
It's very likely why I've been losing the production race in ZvZ. I feel like a bunch of Zergs ratings are going to drop, and mine is going to go up =D. Yeah this'll definitely affect a lot of good players, and I'm interested if there is a way to build faster is developed. It seems like two keys is still excessive for each unit. | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:27 Stiver wrote: Okay, Jmodo you're explaining to me to try and hit a unit button 30 times, right after I finished telling you that's how I've been playing the game for 5 months. @Zelniq, sure if Forcefields were a bug and never intended to give you an advantage in the first place I'd sympathize with losing it. Maybe I'm bitter because I haven't been using this bug, but it's fixed now so no point in crying over it. I mean no other race can do it too right? being able to hold down z for mass zerglings is not a fucking bug. i dont know why blizzard says that it is/was. its not like some glitch that you can exploit. also holding down A to make a ton of marines is just terrible terrible macro for a terran. queing up units is very bad for toss and terran. with t and p you wanna start production on a unit right when the last one finishes. well guess what, with zerg you cant cue up units. they come in bursts. and for god sakes when those larva pop you want your units to start building right away. you DONT want to hit z 60 times just to make some freakin lings. maybe if zerg units were as strong and cost effective as terran or toss units this would make sense. (there not) in other words your argument is broken you obviously dont think befor you talk take a break from the forums and read a book it might expand your intellect. also i think its fucking rediculous that zerg players are already trying to exploit bugs in the game so that they can macro like they did befor the "bug" was fixed. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
in other words your argument is broken you obviously dont think befor you talk take a break from the forums and read a book it might expand your intellect. You always so angry? | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
you always so half witted? im not angry, just implying that maybe you should read a book. get those brain cells firing. stop huffing paint fumes maybe relax and give your ego a break for a day or two. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Fact 1: A 200 pop zerg army will generally and constantly lose to a 200 pop toss or terran army. SubFact1: The zerg army makes up for this by the fact it can replenish its army quickly allowing a limited time for the opposing player to push. Now if this stay it is only fair that Banshee's cloaking, Vikings transform mode receive the same punishment. Is Blizzard trying to give people arthritis and wear keyboards down by this? | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: I'm seeing the discussion going away from the original topic which is why I'll add my 2 cents here. Still I have to say this change is very stupid. Zerg has weaker units that are supposed to die and replenished unlike other races, everyone knows this including Blizzard. That's the way it works. 40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Fact 1: A 200 pop zerg army will generally and constantly lose to a 200 pop toss or terran army. SubFact1: The zerg army makes up for this by the fact it can replenish its army quickly allowing a limited time for the opposing player to push. Now if this stay it is only fair that Banshee's cloaking, Vikings transform mode receive the same punishment. Is Blizzard trying to give people arthritis and wear keyboards down by this? agreed 100%!!!! anyone with really high apm can easily work around this nerf but for most people its not gonna make things harder just make them really fucking annoying. and then we have to listen to a bunch of noobs like stiver tell me its to make it more balanced. | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
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DoomFox
Canada51 Posts
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:31 AssuredVacancy wrote: You can't compare it to protoss because protoss is never put in a situation where he has to make 40+ units in one round of production, where as for zerg i can imagine a lot of late game situations where the zerg trades his army with the terran, and he's remaxing with 40-50 pairs of lings + ultras. I just don't see why blizzard felt that it should be removed. That's actually a good point, Z players going mass ling will be producing many more units over the course of the game than the other two races. With mass hydra/roach though this isn't so much the case. On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: 40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced. Sure people argue that it isn't fair for people to completely replenish their army in a few seconds. However this is not a good argument since a player with large APM can accomplish the same result.The game takes a slight nudge to more APM-based and less Strategy-Based game which is to my personal and humble opinion stupid. Sure APM must take a valid role in determining a player's success but in no way should it be a very significant factor which in this case alters balance. Two things. As I said before, P players warping in zealots are using 1Z[click][click][click][click][click][click] and not on the minimap either. So it's far slower even than the change would be. Not sure how terran players tend to setup their hotkeys but with add-ons they can be producing from more than 6 types of buildings (think about nukes in the ghost academy too). Either way it's far slower and marines are often replaced at a high rate as well. To your point about APM, you are right. However I'm thinking more in a sense of racial balance I guess. I'm not saying that I'm for sure 100% right, there are a lot of variables to consider, but it's just a thought that occurred to me. On December 04 2010 15:57 genopath wrote: I'm seeing the discussion going away from the original topic which is why I'll add my 2 cents here. Still I have to say this change is very stupid. Zerg has weaker units that are supposed to die and replenished unlike other races, everyone knows this including Blizzard. That's the way it works. Haha, probably my fault. Not sure there is much that can be said about jmodo-ing though, Zelniq confirmed that it does work. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:08 Smurfz wrote: I don't know if anyones posted this yet, but you can also old-school click the zergling button while pressing Z and X, so 3x faster than spamming Z. That's actually great, thanks for posting. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
"40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced." To be fair you also have to physically place each Zealot on the map on a power source which in and of itself is a hell of a lot hard to do than tapping 'z' 20 times. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:09 JoeSchmoe wrote: it's sad because I didn't even know you could hold down one key until today.. There's perhaps dozens of things you or I don't know about gameplay mechanics that only a few know. This one was actually posted on TL a long time ago and many people actually came up with it on their own. I don't understand why this was a problem. Quite frankly I see a lot more balance problems in pretty much lots of matchups however it is this little unit production technique which gets addressed. This is however an element that is outside the traditional game play mechanics which is why I argue it shouldn't be left as it is. My RTS design philosophy is centered on micro and macro principles which are both subject to APM but given APM a higher importance rather than strategy is not fine with me. | ||
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SilverJohnny
United States885 Posts
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
I dont mind the game requiring a little more apm, but jamming the same key 40 times every conflict late game is not a fun feature. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:12 Stiver wrote: Luckily I Just ignore trolls. "40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced." To be fair you also have to physically place each Zealot on the map on a power source which in and of itself is a hell of a lot hard to do than tapping 'z' 20 times. That's what you get for deciding where you want to place your units. Zerg doesn't get this little advantage and that's fine that's the game design conception behind it. Believe me I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to build my zerglings at your base ignoring your choke. | ||
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ZeR
Australia15 Posts
I have to agree that it will make Zerg a much more APM intensive race to play, probably not that enjoyable to casual players like me. | ||
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Askesis
216 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:21 genopath wrote: That's what you get for deciding where you want to place your units. Zerg doesn't get this little advantage and that's fine that's the game design conception behind it. Believe me I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to build my zerglings at your base ignoring your choke. That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army. | ||
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
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DoubleLariat
Canada190 Posts
EDIT: I tried - nothing happened. never mind. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
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Sentrosi
United States2 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:38 Askesis wrote: That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army. You mean like warp prisms? | ||
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JWill
Canada52 Posts
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:48 DoubleLariat wrote: I'm curious - has anyone tried to just hold it down anyway and see what happens? Yes. You make 1 unit. It sucks big time late game. | ||
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JWill
Canada52 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:51 DarthXX wrote: How is this in any way a bug. If I hold down a key in any application it spams the letter ... seems pretty logical to me, looks like I gotta start practicing my jmodoing Exactly. Keys repeating presses when held down is a driver level feature. Features are not bugs. If you don't believe me, click on a text entry field, and hold down the 'Z' key. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Wow, isn't that pretty? Look what the keyboard manufacturers have endowed us with! A wonderful bounty of letters should we ever need to repeat a key without wearing our fingers to the bone... Apparently no-one ever told Blizzard this. Anyways, a possible solution lies below  If this bugfix gets past the testing phase, I'll set up autohotkey with a clever little workaround I thought of while reading this thread. Blizzard's stance on binding keys in that it's fine so long as one keypress performs one action. So we can't replicate standard and expected key repeats... but we all agree clicking the mouse in easier than pressing a keyboard button repeatedly? So the obvious solution would be to write an autohotkey script that causes the left mouse button to act as whatever key you're currently holding down. For example, to spawn a lot of lings, press 4s(hold z)clickclickclickclickclickclickclick(release z). Of course, when no keys are pressed down, the left mouse button would act as the left mouse button. What do you guys think? Would this be a viable workaround, do you think it risks the banhammer, or do you have a better solution? | ||
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DoubleLariat
Canada190 Posts
On December 04 2010 17:13 JWill wrote: Exactly. Keys repeating presses when held down is a driver level feature. Features are not bugs. If you don't believe me, click on a text entry field, and hold down the 'Z' key. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Wow, isn't that pretty? Look what the keyboard manufacturers have endowed us with! A wonderful bounty of letters should we ever need to repeat a key without wearing our fingers to the bone... Apparently no-one ever told Blizzard this. Anyways, a possible solution lies below If this bugfix gets past the testing phase, I'll set up autohotkey with a clever little workaround I thought of while reading this thread. Blizzard's stance on binding keys in that it's fine so long as one keypress performs one action. So we can't replicate standard and expected key repeats... but we all agree clicking the mouse in easier than pressing a keyboard button repeatedly? So the obvious solution would be to write an autohotkey script that causes the left mouse button to act as whatever key you're currently holding down. For example, to spawn a lot of lings, press 4s(hold z)clickclickclickclickclickclickclick(release z). Of course, when no keys are pressed down, the left mouse button would act as the left mouse button. What do you guys think? Would this be a viable workaround, do you think it risks the banhammer, or do you have a better solution? What about when you try to a move or focus fire? | ||
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Askesis
216 Posts
If warp prism's gave us supply instead of requiring it, then yes, those would be exactly what I was talking about. | ||
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JWill
Canada52 Posts
On December 04 2010 17:20 DoubleLariat wrote: What about when you try to a move or focus fire? Do you ever hold down A to attack move? I press a, release a, then left click. If you do hold a, and are worried about this, you could set up autohotkey to not mouse-click-repeat for the A-key specifically. Focus firing should not be a problem, if you just right click on a unit, or a-click on a unit. | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
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Askesis
216 Posts
However, I do think the result of the change will end up being more "balanced", even though I don't really think it was necessary, and it's hard to say if Blizzard did that as an intent to nerf zerg a little bit or if it's just one of their quirky things they do. | ||
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JWill
Canada52 Posts
On December 04 2010 17:29 Playguuu wrote: Hopefully the hotkeys will be more robust in the future. As it is now you can't bind something like ctrl click, z click or any mouse buttons to unit production. I tried with larva and baracks. Not sure if that's intentional, but I can bind and recall groups with my side mouse buttons so maybe it is. Yes, you would have to use a third party program like Autohotkey (googleit) for the more advanced stuff. But I'm hoping Blizzard comes to their senses and stops this silly 'bug fix' before we have to learn to deal with it. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
I still somehow doubt that this change is going to stick. | ||
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Fym
United Kingdom189 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On December 04 2010 18:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: People are looking at unit creation and ignoring the fact that you can no longer hotkey your scouting worker and just hold down the hotkey to follow that unit. You have to either hold your mouse button on the portrait or hit the full hotkey which is like ctrl+shift+f by default. Who even does this? Just move the camera... | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On December 04 2010 18:22 Genome852 wrote: Who even does this? Just move the camera... Well, apparently I do this. Moving the camera takes a lot more effort than just holding down 1. Obviously this only applies for the scouting worker since I move the camera for the rest of the game, but its still gonna be annoying. Protoss can still shift + unit hotkey to make multiple warpgate units, right? | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:38 Askesis wrote: That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army. So you want to compare gameplay dynamics? I wonder if you are aware that Zerg is atm a really APM dependent race compared to others and this just makes matters worse. Furthermore I think you are forgetting the fact that our unit composition is inferior to a protoss.You could argue and say one of the elements that compensates for it is mobility. Yet, creep spreading for instance requires a lot of extra attention which requires APM. I could argue all day about why Zerg is a harder race to play but that will be going off-topic. This fix is wrong and it is counter productive but I'm guessing the fact that it doesn't make things easier for your race is a problem. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
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townie
Germany19 Posts
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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aaroB
Canada89 Posts
But anyways, late game when I had about 40 larva queued up for producing, it was hell trying to get all the units out in time. The biggest issue for me was morphing banelings in time when I saw the tank/rine ball move towards me. I think morphing banelings just in time for an attack is critical in the midgame and those precious seconds that this bug takes away really does not allow you to prepare for an attack effectively. Such a stupid change imo, and I really think it is unwarranted. I feel like I'm gonna get carpal tunnel from playing with this ridiculous change. | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:09 JoeSchmoe wrote: it's sad because I didn't even know you could hold down one key until today.. you wont ever need to do that unless you are zerg in fairness so dont feel sad! (if you are zerg than forget what i say >_>)the holding down key in all honesty really matters only to zerg players. i still see some zerg hate from blizzard here =_= | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On topic: you can also bind Z X C all to zergling so you can spam even faster all 3 keys. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
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dvide
United Kingdom287 Posts
On December 04 2010 19:31 ReketSomething wrote: I wonder if holding down f and then click click to cast forcefields are nonexistent now. I realized this 3 days ago and if it disappeared that would suck It's gone too. All instances of holding down a key to repeat presses is gone. What a terrible change. I understand why they removed it, because the repeat rate was dependent upon windows settings. I guess they used the same API for typing (by listening for WM_KEYDOWN events?). I have no idea whether this functionality was ever even possible on macs, which would give windows players an unfair advantage over them. But still, it wouldn't be too hard for them to re-implement the same repeat functionality for themselves with a consistent rate and small delay. Obviously a small delay is needed to prevent accidental repeats, but this is EASY. This needs to exist! It's so useful in many different contexts. Zergs just use it the most often  | ||
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DoubleLariat
Canada190 Posts
On December 04 2010 17:26 JWill wrote: Do you ever hold down A to attack move? I press a, release a, then left click. If you do hold a, and are worried about this, you could set up autohotkey to not mouse-click-repeat for the A-key specifically. Focus firing should not be a problem, if you just right click on a unit, or a-click on a unit. >_< Reading my post again after having a good night's sleep made me realize how stupid my question was. Nice work around =D | ||
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Galleon.frigate
Canada721 Posts
maybe there was a bug where holding down would sometimes cause some glitchy behaviour and that's all their fixing? -- small retort to those you feel that zerg needs/desirves this mechiancal nerf: it is by far my impression that zerg already has the most demanding macro, in there there is little wiggle room, every second that a hatch is not spawning larva can never be made up (with out the production of more hatch) where as it's common practice to drop multiple mules and mutli chronoboosts at little to no cost to the player. Production as zerg is actually mechanicly easier (I find at least) however it's hard to argue that this isn't more than offset by creep tumors and spawn larva. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
If you are constantly spending your minerals and larvae as they are coming, i dont really see the issue. (and if you aren't, maybe its time to step up :D) | ||
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King of Blades
United States94 Posts
On December 05 2010 00:49 Scrimpton wrote: But.. Good zerg players should aim for situations where they dont have thousands of banked mins and gas.. you know like other players of other races. If you are constantly spending your minerals and larvae as they are coming, i dont really see the issue. (and if you aren't, maybe its time to step up :D) Late game maxed armies where there's a ton of larva on each hatch is the only problem anyone has with this, other than mass ling early on which isn't that much of a problem. Replacing a 200/200 army through this seriously takes easily 8-10 seconds, waaaay too long considering how much apm zerg takes to play anyways. | ||
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cannavaro
Italy86 Posts
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blitzkrieger
United States512 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On December 04 2010 19:31 Alpina wrote: The only reason I see why they made this is cause they thought zerg macro is too strong and you need to waste more time producing units. On topic: you can also bind Z X C all to zergling so you can spam even faster all 3 keys. If that's the excuse it's a horrible one. "This mechanic might be too strong, let's force the player to repeatedly press the same key 20-30 times, that will fix it" That is like the worst possible solution to a perceived problem. It's really awful, it's like two steps forward and countless steps back in streamlining the UI and mechanical requirements of SC2. Pressing the same key over and over is nothing like BW either, people using that excuse have clearly never played the game. | ||
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King of Blades
United States94 Posts
On December 05 2010 01:25 blitzkrieger wrote: What really? This is a really bad change and I'm toss. I actually went into my keypress delay settings and turned it to the lowest (same for anything similar) because I realize its important when making a lot of units. Why Blizzard is doing this makes no sense. Even if this balanced the game 100% its really stupid and unfair to Zerg players mid/late game. Thank you. Thank you. You are seriously the only non zerg player I've seen so far who was unhappy about it and wasn't like "QQ moar zerg, u suck, cant press key 40 times in 3s? O.o goml scrub". Edit: not to say that there aren't any, but the general pattern is self stated zerg players = unhappy, self-stated T or P = QQ moar scrub. | ||
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Jyon
United Kingdom39 Posts
Bind the zergling hotkey to mouse scroll up and mouse scroll down. Bam. | ||
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Ryhn
United States509 Posts
I have carpal tunnel in both of my hands (Thanks BW! :3), and it was a saving grace to be able to hold down hotkeys for production/baneling morphs. This new button mashing is painful for me. My poor, poor hands. ; ~ ; | ||
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stimtokolos
Australia77 Posts
On December 05 2010 01:35 Jyon wrote: Go counterstrike duelies style. Bind the zergling hotkey to mouse scroll up and mouse scroll down. Bam. This is a fantastic idea. Brb using mouse drivers to make MWHEELUP/DOWN register as Z. | ||
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gdTyrael
49 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Lobo2me
Norway1213 Posts
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Sentrosi
United States2 Posts
On December 04 2010 17:22 Askesis wrote: If warp prism's gave us supply instead of requiring it, then yes, those would be exactly what I was talking about. Why in the world would you want to get supply capped if they killed a warp prism? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On December 04 2010 16:08 Smurfz wrote: I don't know if anyones posted this yet, but you can also old-school click the zergling button while pressing Z and X, so 3x faster than spamming Z. x? what does X? | ||
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cannavaro
Italy86 Posts
He assumes a double key binding, which you can do in 1.13 patch. | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
No race has as committed a bunch of QQers. Worked though (just like the insurance lobby). At least I play random, so it helps me 1/3 of the time. | ||
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Super_bricklayer
France104 Posts
Simply try it please, press a key 20/25 times, how does that feels ? Honestly ? Do you feel cleaver ? Do you feel that you have done a nice move ? A complex game mechanic ? Maybe Zerg macro is too powerful in late game, i'm a 1600 diamond player with more than 600 bonus points so honestly my feelings toward the game balance are probably wrong. I always avoid thread about balance, patch and all. But that change feel just dumb. SC2 isn't BW, that's why i can enjoy it as a player now instead of just look at it. I really hope we won't see that on the official server, cause what we'll see then is some tips to avoid that, just like that 3 shortcuts, or the mouse wheel. I could bet money that we'll have some cheat programs too. I'm very disappointed by that i admit. Maybe overreacting here. Don't know. | ||
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
If you want to talk about overall difficulty of macro mechanics, I think this places zerg well above the other two races. PS: I play protoss. | ||
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jgoonld
334 Posts
I can't imagine this change being actually implemented in game, as very few from any race seem to be happy with it. | ||
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Nexic
United States729 Posts
On December 05 2010 01:35 Jyon wrote: Wow awesome idea, definitely doing thatGo counterstrike duelies style. Bind the zergling hotkey to mouse scroll up and mouse scroll down. Bam. | ||
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IShowUMagic
United States104 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
Zerg has 30+ larva at almost any given time in lategame. If we aren't supposed to use them, don't give them to us. Don't give zerg this many larva and then hamstring their ability to use them with such a poorly implemented limitation as pressing the same button over and over. There's no challenge, no added multitasking difficulty, it's just stupid tedium. It's like if they thought storm was too strong and instead of making the radius smaller, they made it so you had to press T 15 times before you could cast storm. No one would applaud such an absurd change and they shouldn't do so for this either. | ||
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.ImpacT.
United States390 Posts
On December 04 2010 14:57 tok wrote: I just hold down Z like a pro ya dig? Lol you look dumb ;D But yeah, this is actually a very good strategy, thanks man. | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
Definitely gonna be a lot of Zerg players out there getting carpal tunnel syndrome now thnx Blizzard. | ||
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Skinberger
Canada54 Posts
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
On December 05 2010 02:31 farseerdk wrote: People say it's like making stuff out of warpgates or terran buildings, but let's not forget that spawn larva has a cooldown and mule/chrono don't. If you want to talk about overall difficulty of macro mechanics, I think this places zerg well above the other two races. PS: I play protoss. The analogy to terran buildings doesn't hold up (maybe if you had like 10+ rax, you would go through and hold down the a or d button and then hit escape as many times as you need to cancel appropriate units), but this is somewhat similar to changing warpgate mechanics so that you would need to re-select the unit you want to make every time, instead of shift-spamming the appropriate hotkey. Edit: It would make sense if the mechanic worked with the shift modifier, but it doesn't | ||
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sicajung
United Kingdom297 Posts
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cannavaro
Italy86 Posts
On December 05 2010 02:44 Skinberger wrote: I'm not entirely sure I understand all this, they are going to remove the ability for zerg to hold down a hotkey if they want to make several of the same unit? Are they gonna leave that ability in for the other races? Like for terran for example I like to make lots of marines out of lots of reactor barracks, and I simply hold down the hotkey to make many at once. They removed the ability to hold down a key for any race, but zerg is hit the hardest by far by this. | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On December 05 2010 02:43 FlamingTurd wrote: I just really don't understand what that benefits anyone with by forcing us to spam click zzzzzzzz or rrrrrrrr or mmmmmmmm etc etc. In freakin BW u could just select a hatchery and press z once and it would make all zerglings....... Definitely gonna be a lot of Zerg players out there getting carpal tunnel syndrome now thnx Blizzard. Actually, (and this goes for all similar replies) this change of blizz's is going to make the game more BW-esque. Think, though once the larva were selected it took 1 click/press to change all the larva, it actually took a total of one click/press per larva. 1.) Select hatch (w/ 3 larva on it) 2.) Press 'S' (Select 3 larva) 3.) Press 'Z' (morph 3 larva) 1 click per larva, which is made slightly less efficient now due to more than 3 larva being at a hatch, but at the same time more effective because you can select all hatches/larva with 2 clicks. I actually think that this is a step in the right direction. It is going to punish players with low APM due to macro being harder and thus make larger divides based on player skill. Does anyone else feel this way? EDIT: I need to L2Grammar | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
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King of Blades
United States94 Posts
On December 05 2010 03:51 Bair wrote: I actually think that this is a step in the right direction. It is going to punish players with low APM due to macro being harder and thus make larger divides based on player skill. Does anyone else feel this way? No, this is not a step in the right direction, it's unnecessary tedium which everyone can do in exactly the same way, it's not that hard to spam buttons, it just takes time, regardless of if you're idra or foxer or a bronze player. What the hell is the point of making something harder if it being harder doesn't make the game require more skill? | ||
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King of Blades
United States94 Posts
On December 05 2010 03:55 MementoMori wrote: My question is how did they even stop this?? Holding down a key is simply the equivalent of pressing the button quickly at a set interval. What did they do... Check to see if you're pressing the button too quickly for a person? Seems like extra work that doesn't really make sense to do. I'd like to know how they stopped it too, then I can make a workaround. Edit Oops, sorry about the double post. | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On December 05 2010 03:57 King of Blades wrote: No, this is not a step in the right direction, it's unnecessary tedium which everyone can do in exactly the same way, it's not that hard to spam buttons, it just takes time, regardless of if you're idra or foxer or a bronze player. What the hell is the point of making something harder if it being harder doesn't make the game require more skill? The difference between IdrA and a bronze player being that IdrA can do it in 1/3 the time. Which means IdrA is fast enough to do it in times where the bronze player could not due to his lower APM. Coupled with game sense (knowing when you can look back at your base and build units during micro-intensive moments in a battle) ignoring all other macro factors, IdrA will build more units over the course of his game because he has the speed to. Starcraft is a game in which time is the most important factor. We measure everything in time, from APM to when timing (!!!) pushes will hit another player's base. We have builds designed to get units out in the least amount of time or to gain an economic lead in the least amount of time (see the recent zerg economy thread in the strategy section). This change will punish players for managing their time poorly (low APM). And for the record, I only have a 90-100 APM, so I do not want to come off as some sort of APM elitest XD | ||
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
what i find funny is the person who is correct but is too passionate in their post gets banned but the person with ill-flawed logic arguing against a pro(zelniq) doesn't get banned.. kinda funny. stiver go google logical fallacy, you created one. Go press Z 60 times to make 120 lings and tell me how that goes .oh and back on topic: definitely like this method - hopefully it own't have to come to this tho. I suppose the only units need to do this for would be roaches (r and edit it to be e) and lings (z/x like u said). | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
I forsee something like this being advantageous in ZvZ if only slight for people who can have programmed buttons on their keyboard. | ||
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kidcrash89
198 Posts
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:07 strength wrote: My question is that why can toss hold down their hotkey unit and just click? Its basically spamming units like what zerg did. Toss cannot just hold down Z and click, they need to be holding down Shift+Z (queuing up the spawning of zealots essentially). | ||
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
Drone - S and D- this is actually pretty cool because S selects all your larvae so is pretty quick spamming. Zergling - C and X Morph to baneling ability - E and R Roach is R and E Mutalisk is T and Y Hydralisk - H and G Infested Terran ability - E and W I didn't change many other units because you rarely ever get in situations where you will need to quickly pop 6 or more ultralisks, corruptors(maybe), and infestors. If I'm ever in a crazy end game situation I start clicking the units with my mouse along with spamming, too. | ||
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naked
United States39 Posts
On December 05 2010 04:47 Nerski wrote: If you have a keyboard with programmable keys like a G15 etc. I'd assume you could create aprogrammed key that will tap like 5 times extremly quickly for Z, T, R w/e if you wanted to mass build one unit. I forsee something like this being advantageous in ZvZ if only slight for people who can have programmed buttons on their keyboard. There's a teeny tiny problem with this, already mentioned in the thread. Blizzard will ban you for using macros (e.g., setting one key to perform the equivalent of multiple button presses). | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
On December 05 2010 04:47 Nerski wrote: If you have a keyboard with programmable keys like a G15 etc. I'd assume you could create aprogrammed key that will tap like 5 times extremly quickly for Z, T, R w/e if you wanted to mass build one unit. I forsee something like this being advantageous in ZvZ if only slight for people who can have programmed buttons on their keyboard. if you have a keyboard like g15, or anyother piece of trahs w/ LCD/LED blinking lights you shouldn't be playing this game. test out of mechanical keyboard everytime you press a a key its like an orgams for your fingertips. furthermore, macros are illegal, such as the one you noted - really this only becomes a problem w/ roaches and lings but ye. | ||
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Baobab
Korea (South)153 Posts
Sidenote: mods did a good job temp banning that charlie dude, god did he ever sound like a douche. Too bad they can't prescribe him some sedatives. | ||
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:13 Jmodo wrote: So I've played a few ladder games and I'd like to say what unit hotkeys I have specifically changed that have helped. Drone - S and D- this is actually pretty cool because S selects all your larvae so is pretty quick spamming. Zergling - C and X Morph to baneling ability - E and R Roach is R and E Mutalisk is T and Y Hydralisk - H and G Infested Terran ability - E and W I didn't change many other units because you rarely ever get in situations where you will need to quickly pop 6 or more ultralisks, corruptors(maybe), and infestors. If I'm ever in a crazy end game situation I start clicking the units with my mouse along with spamming, too. wow, i didn't even think about morph baneling, omfg that will suck ass A LOT. um out of curiousity have you tried shift commands? like select all larva, SHIFT-hold Z? if you could test it and tell me thx. i appreciate all these tests, but hopefully blizz will get enough feedback that they are retarded and won't implement this change. | ||
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Jmodo
United States10 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:42 majestouch wrote: wow, i didn't even think about morph baneling, omfg that will suck ass A LOT. um out of curiousity have you tried shift commands? like select all larva, SHIFT-hold Z? if you could test it and tell me thx. i appreciate all these tests, but hopefully blizz will get enough feedback that they are retarded and won't implement this change. I don't need to test that to tell you it won't work  I'll try just in case though. | ||
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
What about a dynamic hotkey, being reset to whatever the most recently pressed key was. For example, if you just build a zergling, the key (let's say x) is set to build zerglings. if you just built a hydra, then it is set to build hydralisks. Thus, you could just go zxzxzxzxzxzx, or hxhxhxhxhxhx, etc. etc. Might be difficult to go through (And violate Blizzard's agreement?) | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:42 majestouch wrote: wow, i didn't even think about morph baneling, omfg that will suck ass A LOT. um out of curiousity have you tried shift commands? like select all larva, SHIFT-hold Z? if you could test it and tell me thx. i appreciate all these tests, but hopefully blizz will get enough feedback that they are retarded and won't implement this change. Blizzard is usually quite stubborn with some changes. On WoW most stuff like these was usually never changed. They test mostly the functionality aspect of it. I might switch to P if this function is implemented. The APM requierement for Z is already quite high and this does not help. | ||
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genopath
80 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:40 Baobab wrote: Personally, I can't believe the big deal that's being made about this - like a few others here, Ive been pressing the hotkey repeatedly to make the units, and its fine, you can do it just a fast as the other way. I'm 2100 diamond, and I don't think I've ever lost a game specifically because I used this method. Its still a lot easier to make units as Z than as P or T imo. Sidenote: mods did a good job temp banning that charlie dude, god did he ever sound like a douche. Too bad they can't prescribe him some sedatives. The big deal is that they are making the interface functionality worse rather than better. Personally to you it might not have been an issue because you were used to the old inefficient way of making units and that's fine everyone was free to either use this technique or not. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
The main reason it hurts zerg is because of the inject mechanic. Every 40 seconds they have to spend 2-3 seconds spamming keys just to build everything they need. It is neither fun, nor well thought out. Sure it doesn't hurt the other races AS much, but it is still not good. | ||
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ahwala
Germany391 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:13 Jmodo wrote: So I've played a few ladder games and I'd like to say what unit hotkeys I have specifically changed that have helped. Drone - S and D- this is actually pretty cool because S selects all your larvae so is pretty quick spamming. Zergling - C and X Morph to baneling ability - E and R Roach is R and E Mutalisk is T and Y Hydralisk - H and G Infested Terran ability - E and W I didn't change many other units because you rarely ever get in situations where you will need to quickly pop 6 or more ultralisks, corruptors(maybe), and infestors. If I'm ever in a crazy end game situation I start clicking the units with my mouse along with spamming, too. I'll stick with standard till I die as I'm too lazy to adapt. | ||
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Super_bricklayer
France104 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:40 Baobab wrote: Personally, I can't believe the big deal that's being made about this - like a few others here, Ive been pressing the hotkey repeatedly to make the units, and its fine, you can do it just a fast as the other way. I'm 2100 diamond, and I don't think I've ever lost a game specifically because I used this method. Its still a lot easier to make units as Z than as P or T imo. Sidenote: mods did a good job temp banning that charlie dude, god did he ever sound like a douche. Too bad they can't prescribe him some sedatives. It's not about being good, or better. It's not about skill at all. And that's the all point. Why removing not a game breaking, not imbalance, not anything but just a logical intuitive simple mechanism ? I just don't get it. And it's mean kind of a lot to me, cause i feel dumb when spamming the same key. I want skill to be decision making and correct execution. They put it back and place a limitation. I don't know how to tell it in English, but something like you hold the key and it's like 50 APM of spamming. No problem at all, nerf the holding key Blizzard ! You can go faster with spamming, easy, and i won't bother at all. But is it about that ? Seriously I can't understand this at all. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
TBH I think they removed it because you can set up your key repeat rate differently outside the game, and they don't want it affecting unit creation timings. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
If Blizzard wants to remove the automatic functionality with holding down a key, People could just do it themselves through software. Force repeats through software when a key is held-down. | ||
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SpaceAnt
Spain64 Posts
So if somebody wanna keep up he would need to be a beastly button presser with loads of stamina or .. just do what most ppl are doing and use some cheat. And all the ppl talking about this was an exploit that favored zerg blablablabla , grouped up barracks work exactly the same, no mather what addon they are having. i agree that protoss work in a different way, for different reasons, which is no bad thing for them at all ... wish i had a w key style thing to select active creep tumors or something. Hope my fears wont come to happen. | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:22 naked wrote: There's a teeny tiny problem with this, already mentioned in the thread. Blizzard will ban you for using macros (e.g., setting one key to perform the equivalent of multiple button presses). Yeah but the real question is how can they tell? As long as you can make a macro that does it fast but not too fast, it will probably be undetectable. | ||
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:07 Stiver wrote: I feel like I'm the only one in the world that assumed you couldn't just hold down a prodution unit up till now. I've been clicking the entire time since I switched to Zerg in August ><. In fact it's probably why I lose a lot of ZvZs, and suddenly everyone is crying about it? Not that big of a deal, I've been doing it for months and am still decent;y ranked diamond. Seems like outrageous effort to just bind two keys to one unit. Just my thought. I dont loose zvz much but i never knew that you could hold it... your not the only one my friend. This part of the patch does not effect me either. | ||
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Terrix
Germany305 Posts
On December 05 2010 06:58 Xapti wrote: Oh right the talk about similar things made me realize: If Blizzard wants to remove the automatic functionality with holding down a key, People could just do it themselves through software. Force repeats through software when a key is held-down. This is strictly strictly illegal... I could use a software to play the game for me too... | ||
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maragin
United States59 Posts
An embarrassing change from Blizzard. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:13 Jmodo wrote: So I've played a few ladder games and I'd like to say what unit hotkeys I have specifically changed that have helped. Drone - S and D- this is actually pretty cool because S selects all your larvae so is pretty quick spamming. Zergling - C and X Morph to baneling ability - E and R Roach is R and E Mutalisk is T and Y Hydralisk - H and G Infested Terran ability - E and W I didn't change many other units because you rarely ever get in situations where you will need to quickly pop 6 or more ultralisks, corruptors(maybe), and infestors. If I'm ever in a crazy end game situation I start clicking the units with my mouse along with spamming, too. Infested Terran ability should still be shift-pressable. Like warpgate warp-ins | ||
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Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
extra solid Zerg Hotkeys !!! It's all merchendising guys ! XD I dont like this change my fingers gonna hurt alot ,and u cant do an allnighter with zerg , ur fingers will hurt cuz they just increased the actual pressing by alot | ||
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Hexolyte
Croatia5 Posts
thank you blizzard for carpal tunnel in 2-3 years -_- | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On December 05 2010 11:48 Uhh Negative wrote: I've always just szzzzzz or srrrrrr or shhhhhh... you get the point. It never really hindered me. Mind you, I'm no amazing player but I was top 4% diamond when I last played so not terrible either (waiting on getting a decent computer to start playing again) If you are to the point where you actually need to hit the key 30 times you aren't macroing very well to begin with. I have a feeling the players complaining about this change aren't very good to begin with. But is that the point though, there's really no logical way to go about doing it this way. I mean sure people will be able to live with it, but they are just making playing the game more tedious for a lot of players. What they *should* do if they dont like people holding down their button, is decrease the frequency that hold button produces units, to a level that they are comfortable with(which I have no idea what is, i dont understand the need for a nerf in the first place...) | ||
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DImported
Australia149 Posts
On December 05 2010 11:48 Uhh Negative wrote: I've always just szzzzzz or srrrrrr or shhhhhh... you get the point. It never really hindered me. Mind you, I'm no amazing player but I was top 4% diamond when I last played so not terrible either (waiting on getting a decent computer to start playing again) If you are to the point where you actually need to hit the key 30 times you aren't macroing very well to begin with. I have a feeling the players complaining about this change aren't very good to begin with. Let's put it this way then. You just sent your 200/200 army and you lost everything and the only thing you need to win the game are a remaxed 200/200 zergling army. Have fun. It's so important for zerg to remax their army instantly. Changing it like this is terrible. | ||
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dcchut
Australia1 Post
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A.J.
United States209 Posts
I've been pressing s z s z sz sz sz sz sz sz since the game came out. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On December 05 2010 05:09 Ichabod wrote: Toss cannot just hold down Z and click, they need to be holding down Shift+Z (queuing up the spawning of zealots essentially). You're doing it wrong. Hit Z, release it, hold shift, click-click-click-click-click. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On December 04 2010 15:11 TheToast wrote: (sorry if this is a complete derail) I'm not so sure I understand the zerg complaints about this. I understand that yes, it's more difficult but Z players in BW never complained about having to press 1sz 2sz 3sz etc. Seems to me that a system of 1szzzzzz still seems pretty simple and easy comparatively. I also think there is a considerable though subtle balance issue here as well, remember that for P players to warp in units it would be 1S[click][click][click][click][click]Z[click][click][click][click]. For terran it's even more complicated, having to switch between production buildings and between buildings of the same type with different ad-ons. With the button holding system it seems to me that this gives an unfair advantage to zerg, especially as the game goes into the late game. What do you guys think about that? Also to the OP: Good find, lol perhaps we can call it "jmodo-ing"? Terran actually has the least trouble in my opinion. You hotkey all your production structures to one control group, and tab through them. Say I wanted to make marines, marauders, and tanks. I would simply hit 1wwwqq[tab]ww Note: I play on grid control scheme, so w is marauders, q is marines, and the other ww after the tab are tanks. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On December 05 2010 14:36 Millitron wrote: Terran actually has the least trouble in my opinion. You hotkey all your production structures to one control group, and tab through them. Say I wanted to make marines, marauders, and tanks. I would simply hit 1wwwqq[tab]ww Note: I play on grid control scheme, so w is marauders, q is marines, and the other ww after the tab are tanks. Hmm, that's interesting. Still though it's more key strokes than the proposed patch 1.2 zerg hotkey system. Also still requires a bit more attention, have to break down your army construction in your head by which buildings you currently have selected. But I get your point, it's easier than protoss. Still takes more time and APM than the current zerg system of key-holding though. Again I'm not saying this is something that is game-breakingly IMBA, after all as it has been pointed out there are quite a few other variables involved such as overall units produced by zerg tends to be higher. IMO though the 1.2 patch system seems a bit more balanced. | ||
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SolidusR
United States217 Posts
I thought the whole point of next-gen Starcraft was that you no longer had to fight the UI like this anymore, hitting a key over and over again to accomplish a simple task feels very foreign in a game like SC2. Somebody tell Ret that it wasn't the best idea to publicly admit that zerg macro is super easy; this is why we can't have nice things! haha | ||
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TitanGen2
United States11 Posts
Also I have been wondering if it only effects larva? Because who here doesn't enjoy alot o banelings | ||
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DoubleLariat
Canada190 Posts
Yes zerg was always very APM demanding because of the need to stay on top of your larvae injects. Yes zerg needed to stay on top of their creep spread and have internal clocks for those two things going on at once (chefs would make great zerg players... at least mechanically =P) But if at the late game stage where you have a 200/200 food army and then are going for the massive tech switch to blimey up your opponent, he also has to spam whatever button he's going to press. The zerg player on the other hand could just hold down one button and thar she blows. And don't give me "I have to hit zzzzzzz a million times." Why are you making so many zerglings to replace a 200/200 food army instead of a bunch of ultralisks? | ||
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us.insurgency
United States330 Posts
On December 05 2010 14:36 Millitron wrote: Terran actually has the least trouble in my opinion. You hotkey all your production structures to one control group, and tab through them. Say I wanted to make marines, marauders, and tanks. I would simply hit 1wwwqq[tab]ww Note: I play on grid control scheme, so w is marauders, q is marines, and the other ww after the tab are tanks. Nice find, i bet they will patch that. Just like everything we find. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
i dont see what the problem is tbh | ||
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On December 06 2010 09:56 Subversion wrote: think its pretty lame blizz doesnt let u hold down anymore i dont see what the problem is tbh There is no problem. Completely stupid change, and a step backwards from what they have been doing with SC2 (moving away from such things and introducing MBS, automine etc.) | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
I think it'd just be annoying to go zxzxzxzxxzzxzxzxxzxz instead of just zzzzzzzzzzz oh sorry z z z z z z z z z. Held down the key first batch of z's, that's not allowed! Inc RSS in my left wrist :\ | ||
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AcOrP
Bulgaria148 Posts
so 25 times RH or holding the R for few sec then H for few sec is not huge difference. What 3-4 seconds ?between the 1st unit to pop out and the last ? I realy don't see this as problem or huge thing. I think larva inject and creep spreading is problematic. | ||
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Kava
Canada65 Posts
Regardless, it's still a pretty retarded change. | ||
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GQz
Australia168 Posts
Besides, if it is the player's intention to turn all of his larvae into zerglings, I don't see why it should take us LONGER to do it, especially since sc2 is supposed to be making the game easier for people. | ||
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
I had a game where I meant to make 8 hydra and instead only made 1 by accident. ugg, worst change ever, hopefully they don't release it. I want to test the PTR but this change is so annoying I might go back to 1.1.3 just to avoid it for now. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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