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On December 04 2010 16:38 Askesis wrote:
That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army.
You mean like warp prisms?
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On December 04 2010 16:48 DoubleLariat wrote:
I'm curious - has anyone tried to just hold it down anyway and see what happens?
Yes. You make 1 unit. It sucks big time late game.
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On December 04 2010 16:51 DarthXX wrote:
How is this in any way a bug. If I hold down a key in any application it spams the letter ... seems pretty logical to me, looks like I gotta start practicing my jmodoing
Exactly. Keys repeating presses when held down is a driver level feature. Features are not bugs. If you don't believe me, click on a text entry field, and hold down the 'Z' key.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Wow, isn't that pretty? Look what the keyboard manufacturers have endowed us with! A wonderful bounty of letters should we ever need to repeat a key without wearing our fingers to the bone... Apparently no-one ever told Blizzard this.
Anyways, a possible solution lies below 
If this bugfix gets past the testing phase, I'll set up autohotkey with a clever little workaround I thought of while reading this thread. Blizzard's stance on binding keys in that it's fine so long as one keypress performs one action. So we can't replicate standard and expected key repeats... but we all agree clicking the mouse in easier than pressing a keyboard button repeatedly?
So the obvious solution would be to write an autohotkey script that causes the left mouse button to act as whatever key you're currently holding down. For example, to spawn a lot of lings, press 4s(hold z)clickclickclickclickclickclickclick(release z). Of course, when no keys are pressed down, the left mouse button would act as the left mouse button.
What do you guys think? Would this be a viable workaround, do you think it risks the banhammer, or do you have a better solution?
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On December 04 2010 17:13 JWill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:51 DarthXX wrote:
How is this in any way a bug. If I hold down a key in any application it spams the letter ... seems pretty logical to me, looks like I gotta start practicing my jmodoing Exactly. Keys repeating presses when held down is a driver level feature. Features are not bugs. If you don't believe me, click on a text entry field, and hold down the 'Z' key. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Wow, isn't that pretty? Look what the keyboard manufacturers have endowed us with! A wonderful bounty of letters should we ever need to repeat a key without wearing our fingers to the bone... Apparently no-one ever told Blizzard this. Anyways, a possible solution lies below If this bugfix gets past the testing phase, I'll set up autohotkey with a clever little workaround I thought of while reading this thread. Blizzard's stance on binding keys in that it's fine so long as one keypress performs one action. So we can't replicate standard and expected key repeats... but we all agree clicking the mouse in easier than pressing a keyboard button repeatedly? So the obvious solution would be to write an autohotkey script that causes the left mouse button to act as whatever key you're currently holding down. For example, to spawn a lot of lings, press 4s(hold z)clickclickclickclickclickclickclick(release z). Of course, when no keys are pressed down, the left mouse button would act as the left mouse button. What do you guys think? Would this be a viable workaround, do you think it risks the banhammer, or do you have a better solution?
What about when you try to a move or focus fire?
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On December 04 2010 16:57 Sentrosi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:38 Askesis wrote:
That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army. You mean like warp prisms?
If warp prism's gave us supply instead of requiring it, then yes, those would be exactly what I was talking about.
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On December 04 2010 17:20 DoubleLariat wrote:What about when you try to a move or focus fire?
Do you ever hold down A to attack move? I press a, release a, then left click. If you do hold a, and are worried about this, you could set up autohotkey to not mouse-click-repeat for the A-key specifically.
Focus firing should not be a problem, if you just right click on a unit, or a-click on a unit.
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Hopefully the hotkeys will be more robust in the future. As it is now you can't bind something like ctrl click, z click or any mouse buttons to unit production. I tried with larva and baracks. Not sure if that's intentional, but I can bind and recall groups with my side mouse buttons so maybe it is.
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But yea, this change really shocked me and I really don't see a reason for it. The way it was working seemed like the natural way to me, just like if you were to hold a letter on a keyboard in any other application.
However, I do think the result of the change will end up being more "balanced", even though I don't really think it was necessary, and it's hard to say if Blizzard did that as an intent to nerf zerg a little bit or if it's just one of their quirky things they do.
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On December 04 2010 17:29 Playguuu wrote:
Hopefully the hotkeys will be more robust in the future. As it is now you can't bind something like ctrl click, z click or any mouse buttons to unit production. I tried with larva and baracks. Not sure if that's intentional, but I can bind and recall groups with my side mouse buttons so maybe it is.
Yes, you would have to use a third party program like Autohotkey (googleit) for the more advanced stuff. But I'm hoping Blizzard comes to their senses and stops this silly 'bug fix' before we have to learn to deal with it.
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I'm pretty sure that if you have a macro keyboard, you can hotkey something to press Z, release Z, and if you held that key, it would repeat the macro and act as it used to.
I still somehow doubt that this change is going to stick.
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I can't believe they're doing this, they're adding tedium to zergling production by having to assign 2 keys to it. Hope its reverted
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People are looking at unit creation and ignoring the fact that you can no longer hotkey your scouting worker and just hold down the hotkey to follow that unit. You have to either hold your mouse button on the portrait or hit the full hotkey which is like ctrl+shift+f by default.
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On December 04 2010 18:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:
People are looking at unit creation and ignoring the fact that you can no longer hotkey your scouting worker and just hold down the hotkey to follow that unit. You have to either hold your mouse button on the portrait or hit the full hotkey which is like ctrl+shift+f by default.
Who even does this? Just move the camera...
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On December 04 2010 18:22 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:
People are looking at unit creation and ignoring the fact that you can no longer hotkey your scouting worker and just hold down the hotkey to follow that unit. You have to either hold your mouse button on the portrait or hit the full hotkey which is like ctrl+shift+f by default. Who even does this? Just move the camera...
Well, apparently I do this. Moving the camera takes a lot more effort than just holding down 1. Obviously this only applies for the scouting worker since I move the camera for the rest of the game, but its still gonna be annoying.
Protoss can still shift + unit hotkey to make multiple warpgate units, right?
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On December 04 2010 16:38 Askesis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:21 genopath wrote:On December 04 2010 16:12 Stiver wrote:
Luckily I Just ignore trolls.
"40 Zerglings is now 20 taps where as the equivalent for zealots is 10 taps. From a practical standpoint this isn't fair. Consequently this isn't balanced."
To be fair you also have to physically place each Zealot on the map on a power source which in and of itself is a hell of a lot hard to do than tapping 'z' 20 times.
That's what you get for deciding where you want to place your units. Zerg doesn't get this little advantage and that's fine that's the game design conception behind it. Believe me I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to build my zerglings at your base ignoring your choke. That's what you get for being able to build an entire army of any unit composition you want all at once. Believe me, I would gladly accept this mechanic if I were to have some way to make my pylons mobile, able to fly, and able to transport my army.
So you want to compare gameplay dynamics? I wonder if you are aware that Zerg is atm a really APM dependent race compared to others and this just makes matters worse. Furthermore I think you are forgetting the fact that our unit composition is inferior to a protoss.You could argue and say one of the elements that compensates for it is mobility. Yet, creep spreading for instance requires a lot of extra attention which requires APM. I could argue all day about why Zerg is a harder race to play but that will be going off-topic.
This fix is wrong and it is counter productive but I'm guessing the fact that it doesn't make things easier for your race is a problem.
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This is really annoying. Zerg already requires a lot of macro attention, this is basically putting a roadblock down whenever you want to build units lategame. Inject larvae every 30 seconds, but also spent 6 seconds spamming keys to build the units you want.
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im a zerg! need to spam a lot units and not my keys.....
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I've been using this now called "bug" for over 4 months and it's the reason why I switched to Zerg. Very disheartening to be told that I'll have to change this and it being described as an "exploitable bug".
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I don't know what blizzard was on when they came up with this. I just played a few ZvTs on the PTR and a couple of them went into the late game (luckily my opponents were terrible and I won the placement matches) but it took a while to get used to this. A few times I tried to create a craptonne of zling and forgot about teh change and only ended up with one pair.
But anyways, late game when I had about 40 larva queued up for producing, it was hell trying to get all the units out in time. The biggest issue for me was morphing banelings in time when I saw the tank/rine ball move towards me. I think morphing banelings just in time for an attack is critical in the midgame and those precious seconds that this bug takes away really does not allow you to prepare for an attack effectively. Such a stupid change imo, and I really think it is unwarranted.
I feel like I'm gonna get carpal tunnel from playing with this ridiculous change.
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EPT
