EPTNope. Fill me in?
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 799
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
Nope. Fill me in? | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On April 19 2011 03:07 Dragar wrote: Bib-by-bit did great with non-stable play too (and I'd never consider Nestea to be terribly risky in his play). Not in comparison with what Fruitdealer did in some of his games no. Nothing comes close to the game on Kulas where Rainbow makes mass thors and never moves out while fruitdealer after having been harassed to near death just drones up again gets ultralisks and then proceeds to roll over rainbow. | ||
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Essentia
1150 Posts
On April 19 2011 01:13 gnutz wrote: But they are stillno form of cheese. If you lose one Ovi with 4 Roaches it costed way less than a terran medivac with 4 Marauder. Would you say a terran who drops on 2 fronts with 2 medivacs on each side cheeses? And of course Protoss players don't play to ther full potential, we just realized we played the complete opposite of what is good (despite Day9 all the time calling the right strategies ^^), now give us time to perfect these strategies. And invent stuff what we can throw in there. -Yeah but medivacs are a standard unit in a terran composition. -Overlords arent. And for you to use them as drops you have to get the speed and drop upgrade. -Lastly 1 medivac full of mm can do a whole lot more damage with stim and constant healing than 1 OL with like 4 roaches. Terran medivacs have much higher risk/reward than OL. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On April 19 2011 03:35 Essentia wrote: -Yeah but medivacs are a standard unit in a terran composition. -Overlords arent. And for you to use them as drops you have to get the speed and drop upgrade. -Lastly 1 medivac full of mm can do a whole lot more damage with stim and constant healing than 1 OL with like 4 roaches. Terran medivacs have much higher risk/reward than OL. a starport and a medivac is basically the same cost as overlord speed and drop upgrades, YOUR choice to not get it is nothing to do with 'standard' and 'non standard' play. thats not a reason for doing or not doing something. overlords arent a standard zerg unit is possibly the dumbest single line to ever grace the internet 4 banelings can easily do as much damage as a ball of mm | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
On April 19 2011 03:35 Essentia wrote: -Yeah but medivacs are a standard unit in a terran composition. -Overlords arent. And for you to use them as drops you have to get the speed and drop upgrade. LOL please think before posting. And compare the costs of 1 Medivac full of Marauders (550/200) with them of 1 Ovi full of roaches (400/100), even though you say one overlord full of roaches doesnt do anything, which is a lie, you have the same amount of gas and 250 minerals more if you send 2 overlords, while actually it hurts terran really bad if they lose a medivac, you lose pretty much nothing else than your normal units. And what the hell? Still not getting that it ISN'T about getting Drops fast? It's about getting drops. And now, Terrans don't play this style from behind. You obviously never analysed a good TvP. Please. | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
On April 19 2011 06:40 turdburgler wrote: a starport and a medivac is basically the same cost as overlord speed and drop upgrades, YOUR choice to not get it is nothing to do with 'standard' and 'non standard' play. thats not a reason for doing or not doing something. overlords arent a standard zerg unit is possibly the dumbest single line to ever grace the internet 4 banelings can easily do as much damage as a ball of mm cost is not issue here per unit, its WHEN you need the gas and what do you use it for as zerg, Zerg are really gas intensive race and usually at time where overlords speed and drops are available you spend / stack gas for mutas / infestors or benelings if attack come before that. Not to mention that the upgrade takes some time to finish and you need 2 hatches to do that (at time which lair finishes when you mostly have 2 bases, meaning u cannot produce queens while researching or cannot go burrow upgrade). Because of the amount of timing pushes and the need for the zerg to defend, investing in those can actually kill you if you don't get power units. While medivacs are usefull in all situations where u have bio overlord drops are not. If your plan doesn't revolve around beneling carpet bombing you cannot really use the drop / ov speed in straight up fight while you can do that with medivacs. I am pretty sure if research cost was nerfed or the upgrade time was lowered for the drop tech more people will go for it faster. I am trying to incorporate drop play into my games but i cannot find a good specific time for it without feeling very vulnerable. At least not before third base. | ||
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Azaiya
United Kingdom33 Posts
Come on guys give them your support, they are working hard to bring us up to date news with good and funny delivery. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
On April 19 2011 06:54 gnutz wrote: LOL please think before posting. And compare the costs of 1 Medivac full of Marauders (550/200) with them of 1 Ovi full of roaches (400/100), even though you say one overlord full of roaches doesnt do anything, which is a lie, you have the same amount of gas and 250 minerals more if you send 2 overlords, while actually it hurts terran really bad if they lose a medivac, you lose pretty much nothing else than your normal units. And what the hell? Still not getting that it ISN'T about getting Drops fast? It's about getting drops. And now, Terrans don't play this style from behind. You obviously never analysed a good TvP. Please. It's not really a lie. 4 Roaches don't do damage unless they go completely unoticed for long enough, but at that point its just incompetance from your opponent and an MnM drop would have done 3x more lol. Also don't get 4 marauders, thats silly unless you're trying to snipe buildings (which isn't all that great anymore). Usually best idea is to get 1 or 2 marauders and the rest marines, and drop them somewhere along the path transfering workers would take . | ||
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bentski
Canada31 Posts
On April 19 2011 07:19 Azaiya wrote: I would just like to say I think JP and Chobo are doing a great job with the SC Centre show and I would hate to see them stop because it is not getting as many views as it warrants! Come on guys give them your support, they are working hard to bring us up to date news with good and funny delivery. I personally think SC Centre is great, but never get around to watching it because it just seems to get lost in the flurry of other things I end up watching. I actually think SC Centre would be an awesome addition to the NASL... kind of like how they had that LAGTV "When Cheeze Fails" during one of the intermissions last night. Either have SC Centre as part of the NASL Pre-Show (which many people admit is lacking in content anyway), or have it directly following the NASL. So Geoff and Andre would be like "Thanks for tuning in to the NASL tonight guys! Stay tuned because up next is SC Centre!!" ...it'd be just like watching a hockey game on TSN when they're like "Stay tuned for Sportscentre!" I know JP probably doesn't read this thread anymore (I don't blame him), but they should definitely hook up with NASL. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On April 19 2011 06:54 gnutz wrote: LOL please think before posting. And compare the costs of 1 Medivac full of Marauders (550/200) with them of 1 Ovi full of roaches (400/100), even though you say one overlord full of roaches doesnt do anything, which is a lie, you have the same amount of gas and 250 minerals more if you send 2 overlords, while actually it hurts terran really bad if they lose a medivac, you lose pretty much nothing else than your normal units. And what the hell? Still not getting that it ISN'T about getting Drops fast? It's about getting drops. And now, Terrans don't play this style from behind. You obviously never analysed a good TvP. Please. And look at the DPS of said drop :/ 4 Marauders with stim = 80 DPS (to armored) 4 Roaches = 32dps... 4 Stalkers = 38.8 dps (to armored) You really can't do the same damage as a marauder drop as you can with similar units, Zerg are much more apt at dropping en masse, simillary Stalkers are pretty terrible in small numbers, but when they grow they stay just as mobile, unlike Zerg/Terran drops which would require more overlords/medivacs. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
Medivacs are really good for those base drops because all their properties are designed for it: -Heavier on gas means more minerals for marines marauders and hellions to go inside. -Compromise on hitpoints for speed. -Moderate amount of healing to keep a small number of units alive for a prolonged period of time. Likewise warp prisms cost a lot of minerals, which in an early game build order allows for more gas for things like warping in both kinds of templar. If you refuse to play to a unit's strength and instead treat them like a unit they are not, you aren't going to have a lot of success with them. There's a lot of potential that hasn't been utilized with overlords yet, it's just that you can't treat the cheap, slow, durable overlords like the expensive, fast and delicate medivac. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
1 Medivac + 8 Marines(stimmed) 500 minerals 100 gas 80 DPS 1 Overlord + 4 Roaches 400 minerals + 100 gas 32 DPS 1 Overlord + 4 Hydras 500 minerals + 200 gas 60 DPS 1 Overlord + 4 Banelings 300 minerals + 100 gas ROFLSAUCE Marine/Medivac drops are BETTER but Roach/Hydra drops are VIABLE It's all good baby | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 19 2011 00:58 Logo wrote: yeah for sure. NASL spoiler + Show Spoiler + Look at his games vs Socke even! He has everything for the fake 3-gate down almost perfectly (he scouts RIGHT at the cancel, he clearly knows what time it's supposed to be canceled). Then in the following 2 games he might as well have had full map vision given how he played reading Socke flawlessly to take both the games. i dont deserve any credit for it. i flipped coins cuz theres no reliable way to win in a long game vs a competent player and no way to read a nexus cancel before its too late. blind guessing is just better odds than zvp right now. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
On April 19 2011 15:03 IdrA wrote: i dont deserve any credit for it. i flipped coins cuz theres no reliable way to win in a long game vs a competent player and no way to read a nexus cancel before its too late. blind guessing is just better odds than zvp right now. Hey IdrA that second Hydra drop in his natural last night was RIDICULOUS. You should've heard Day orgasm over it on Spanishiwa's stream. Although I do think it's mostly that Protoss aren't used to getting dropped on as much in PvZ and he probably would've pulled probes a lot sooner if your name had been Select/qxc. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On April 19 2011 15:03 IdrA wrote: i dont deserve any credit for it. i flipped coins cuz theres no reliable way to win in a long game vs a competent player and no way to read a nexus cancel before its too late. blind guessing is just better odds than zvp right now. You still scouted very well. :p Your scouting has definitely vastly improved over the last year or so. You know the timings very well now. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
timings just work out if you make things in the right order, the game is well enough designed for that. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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