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On June 01 2011 17:42 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 17:17 yeint wrote:
Murder victims aren't generally mentally traumatized by what happened to them, on account of being dead. Also, murder doesn't target a specific group of people. Rape victims are overwhelmingly female, and the prevalence of the crime is insanely high. What about relatives of murder victims? A man is about 4 times as likely to fall victim to homicide in the united states, and 1/8 or so of rape victims are male.
The relatives of murder victims are traumatized by the loss of a loved one, not the particular method of their demise, which in the vast majority of cases is entirely mundane, and can equally well be used for self defense (knife, gun, unarmed attacks).
As to male rape victims, it's one in ten, according to the National Center for Victims of Crime. Bringing that up as a counter-argument to rape being a crime that primarily affects women is like countering anti-semitism by pointing out that sometimes people of German descent may be thought to have Jewish surnames and therefore discriminated against.
Anyway, your argument is specious. Males are not statistically more likely to be homicide victims because would-be murderers just can't help but kill people with a Y chromosome. Males are killed more often because they put themselves in harm's way more often.
Rape victims are women 9 times out of 10 because 90% of rapists are heterosexual men, who are physically stronger than their victims. Women are targeted because they are women, not because they screwed someone over on a drug deal.
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thx for upload JP. u can sleep now :D
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On June 01 2011 17:17 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 16:55 KimJongChill wrote:
I think shit and fuck could very well be as harmful as rape. Fuck easily conjures up images of sexual acts, while shit could really refer to so many strange and offensive things. Okay, let me try to explain this as clearly as possible - we are mammals. We defecate and procreate. There is nothing harmful or evil about either. If your mind goes from hearing "shit" to the writings of Marquis de Sade, then that's your own problem. There is no harmless side to the word "rape". It means sexual assault, and when used by gamers, refers metaphorically to sexual assault. Show nested quote +If anything, "kill," or "nuke" connote so much more violence, and refer to the very most evil thing in society, which is taking another life. Murder victims aren't generally mentally traumatized by what happened to them, on account of being dead. Also, murder doesn't target a specific group of people. Rape victims are overwhelmingly female, and the prevalence of the crime is insanely high. Show nested quote +The point is that it's useless to endlessly bisect definitions of what is appropriate and inappropriate language. That's utterly ridiculous, especially considering you do the exact thing you call useless in the following paragraph. Of course we can discuss what is appropriate and inappropriate. I've explained in detail why "rape" is inappropriate as a casual term. Show nested quote +In my view, racial slurs are not appropriate because they relate to inherent aspects of a person that cannot be changed, and in that sense are offensive at the most fundamental level of person-hood. Whereas pejorative terms which highlight events, instances, or qualities that can very much be overcome; in fact, walking on eggshells around victims is in many ways an insult to their attempts to achieve a sense of normalcy. It's not a matter of walking on eggshells around victims, it's about not glorifying a serious crime by casually using it as a metaphor for beating someone in a video game. It's not about rape victims breaking down in tears at the mere mention of the word, it's about perpetuating the notion that rape victims are dominated and dehumanized. Do not use it as a synonym for "schooled", "owned" and "humiliated". I'm not quite sure what you mean by "qualities that can very much be overcome", but let's look at "events and instances". Would you be comfortable with using the word "lynch" in a metaphorical sense, instead of "kill" or "murder"? It almost exactly mirrors the word "rape", in that there is no positive interpretation of the term, and it overwhelmingly targets a specific demographic group. It's not a racial slur, but using it casually is pretty goddamn offensive, wouldn't you say?
Offensive terms are offensive precisely because they recall a certain history of prejudice, or iniquity, with all of its attendant pain, suffering, and humiliation. Expletives are a different matter altogether, but if we just stick to terms with a specific trauma as their referent, then of course it's easy to restrict many words: my point, though, was that any words can be associated with notions of such pain, and that it brings up the issue of appositeness as something that is ridiculously mired in the particulars. I'm not arguing against you about the appropriate usage of language in public spaces; rather, I think that acting in an informed and respective manner is vital in any attempt towards constructive thought and action, and that the dominance of social standards of political 'correctness' points towards its importance. My largest point of contention was really your idea that certain language can be emphatically 'evil,' while other forms could not, and it just seemed inconsistent and short-sighted.
You brought up a good point that certain terms overwhelmingly conjure the mistreatment of specific demographics, although I wasn't exactly trying to argue that these words don't have negative connotations. I was just thinking about the reasoning behind why certain categories of words are more offensive.
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I just think it alienates a lot of minorities to throw around certain sensitive phrases the way that a lot of prominent sc2 personalities do.
That likewise this alienates a lot of mainstream people who start to get into SC and then stumble onto vods of iNcontrol, Destiny, Wheat, etc saying faggot or nigger for no particular reason.
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I'm surprised nobody asked Destiny this question.
"Does not saying faggot/rape/nigger etc make you less real? Is it quintessential to your being that you MUST say these words?"
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Anyone stuck up about the word rape needs to meet the words faggot and nigger.
You don't get to tell people how to talk no matter who you are or what you've experienced, and the only way those words mean anything is if you make a big deal about them. Otherwise they're just words.
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On June 01 2011 18:16 darkscream wrote:
Anyone stuck up about the word rape needs to meet the words faggot and nigger.
You don't get to tell people how to talk no matter who you are or what you've experienced, and the only way those words mean anything is if you make a big deal about them. Otherwise they're just words.
So if someone called your father a faggot you'd be okay with it?
Edit: What I'm bothered by is the fact that people like Destiny can say something that is genuinely hurtful to someone and instead of doing something so very simple as not incorporating racial slurs into your everyday language, argue and fight for his 'right' to say it. This ep of Sotg doesn't cover it I don't think but during Weapon of Choice he literally said that a rape victim should "get over it".
Alright buddy, don't censor yourself. Keep it real.
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On June 01 2011 18:16 darkscream wrote:
Anyone stuck up about the word rape needs to meet the words faggot and nigger.
You don't get to tell people how to talk no matter who you are or what you've experienced, and the only way those words mean anything is if you make a big deal about them. Otherwise they're just words.
This is a comfortable and easy opinion to have if you're not black, gay or a rape victim.
Words can mean quite a bit after they get attached to physical abuses that, frankly, straight white men rarely experience.
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Germany25658 Posts
This thread always delivers funny indepth discussions about the most trivial things, its a great read.
thanks guys 
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Almost 50 pages of posts in one day.
SoTG was pretty good, huh?
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Also, Destiny's argument is that you cannot replace phrases such as "get the fuck out" and "holy shit". Where do slurs and the word rape factor into that? Replace 'rape' with 'destroy' and I'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. Is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it?
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On June 01 2011 18:25 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Also, Destiny's argument is that you cannot replace phrases such as "get the fuck out" and "holy shit". Where do slurs and the word rape factor into that? Replace 'rape' with 'destroy' and I'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. Is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it?
It conveys intensity and economy of expression. You dominate someone so forcefully as though you had forcefully violated them. It's entertaining for this exact reason, since the idea is so ludicrous, and likely is an overstatement.
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On June 01 2011 18:25 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Also, Destiny's argument is that you cannot replace phrases such as "get the fuck out" and "holy shit". Where do slurs and the word rape factor into that? Replace 'rape' with 'destroy' and I'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. Is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it?
why say "gl hf" and "gg"? replace "gg" with "you raped me" and i'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it?
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On June 01 2011 18:33 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 18:25 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Also, Destiny's argument is that you cannot replace phrases such as "get the fuck out" and "holy shit". Where do slurs and the word rape factor into that? Replace 'rape' with 'destroy' and I'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. Is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it? why say "gl hf" and "gg"? replace "gg" with "you raped me" and i'm pretty sure that will convey the same meaning. is there truly a reason that you HAVE to say it?
I'll bite.
The argument here is that racial slurs and the word rape may be hurtful to certain individuals and therefore should be censored and not said. Destiny's argument is that he needs these words to convey his feelings. What he's referring to however is swear words and not slurs. Under no circumstances does using a slur convey your message more clearly than other acceptable words. Ergo, he shouldn't use those offensive words using his given argument.
Your post has nothing to do with anything that was said or has been said.
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Anyone got a download link for the flv/vod? Can't find it on the new blip site :\
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On June 01 2011 18:48 heladocasero wrote:
Anyone got a download link for the flv/vod? Can't find it on the new blip site :\
Probably not up yet. Give JP some time (could be anywhere from hours to days as he has MLG stuff to get done).
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I can't believe this argument is happening again.
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Omg Day[9] looks so much like his brother in this episode.
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way to many boring argumentations lately. i love. the show, but they are sooo serious and are such time consumers. cant wait for next ep tho 
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JP really needs to stop cutting people while they're talking and trying to make a point. Whenever he wants to say something he just says it regardless of the fact that someone else is talking. Chill out JP, wait a few sec first.
Seriously, as much as I like the man, this one thing annoys me to no end.
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GL to Incontrol. Will miss his rants on the show.
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EPT
