EPTOracle Changes - Page 5
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Lightscythe
United States7 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:44 meadbert wrote: A stimmed marine has better DPS than the Oracle and can actually target workers. I do not see how this is worth building for harassment purposes. A Zealot has higher DPS, so why would I not just drop Zealots with a Warp Prism instead? Wait wait wait wait wait... According to Liquipedia, doesn't a stimmed Marine do 10.5 dps and a Zealot do 13.3 dps? And it seems that Pulsar Beam will do 20 dps. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:35 awesomoecalypse wrote: extractor sniping is a good idea. Even one Oracle can snipe an Extractor in just 25 seconds which isn't bad at all. Also, unlike Entomb, Time Warp can slow down gas minining as well as mineral mining. Hah, wow, when you put it that way, 20 dps sounds like chump change. 25s of unmitigated harass should be thousands of resources lost at that point. | ||
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Von
United States363 Posts
On October 25 2012 03:16 Incomplet wrote: Woot my suggestion came through :D Time Warp http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376196¤tpage=4#78 There was some pretty strong support for this general concept, I was one of them. We were calling it "Chrono Field". Glad they saw the value in it, I'm very interested to see how its going to turn out. I felt that the spell would be more effective if it slowed down units in the field, on an increasing basis the longer you held the field over the units. ie. The slowing effect would increase over time (30 seconds?) until the speed of the units in the field came to a complete stop. This would make high-skill harassment of mineral lines high value. Also - it would be very cool to see ranged units firing shots / missles in slow motion inside the field  Missiles hanging in mid-air until the Oracle was forced away / destroyed etc ... | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
With the speed upgrade both Warp Prism and Oracle will be super fast and hard to deal with simultaneously. Think of using Time Warp on enemy workers to slow them down while dropping/warping in Zealots to the mineral line. Or you could warp in at their mineral line and Time Warp their ramp so units coming back to defend will be slowed down. Then send your Oracle to Pulsar some buildings in the opposite corner while they try to clean up your Zealots. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:52 Lightscythe wrote: I think people have forgotten that David Kim has said denying expansions under construction with the oracle is a breeze with a couple of oracles channeling Pulsar Beam, 20x2 or 20x3 dps kills constructing buildings fast. Fast zerg thirds are no more with an oracle + zealot combo, reminds me of the old void + zealot style but a hell of a lot faster. You're not the first one to mention that with a few oracles you could kill a Zerg's third while it's in construction in PvZ. Care to enlighten the poor WoL player that I am ( no beta access ). What are the timings to get, say, 2 oracles out of a stargate in HOTS, out of a forge FE ? Considering you *start* a stargate at 6' and Zerg's third is *done* at that same timing in WoL, I'm wondering if I'm missing something or if everybody forgot timings in HOTS. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Blizzard have Protosses A LOT OF harrasing options. M-Core, Oracle 2 abilities, tempest at tier 2. Why they do it all time? I mean why they over-buff, over-nerf or over-do something? | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:52 Cloak wrote: You would actually see more use of Voids in their only time slot (~1-2 min of midgame PvZ) because the main deterrent of Voids is Spores, so if an Oracle becomes a Spore-killer, you could see a resurgence of Void harass. I wouldn't worry about Void Rays because they're a mess to begin with. They're one of the WoL units that needs looking at once the HotS units are squared away. Your right abouth teh voidray part ^^. Sentence taken from a blue post by dustin browder: "We will be looking some at the Void Ray soonish. I don't know what if anything we will decide to do with him but your feedback on this unit has certainly been heard." http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794032960?page=2 | ||
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Inf-badguy
Canada171 Posts
That said though, I think that would actually be a really neat idea for an active harassment tool. If you could use the oracle to drain Nexus, Orbital Command and Queen energy, you could achieve the goal of indirect economic harassment while still maintaining a mechanic that scales with micro. Thoughts? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:52 Cloak wrote: You would actually see more use of Voids in their only time slot (~1-2 min of midgame PvZ) because the main deterrent of Voids is Spores, so if an Oracle becomes a Spore-killer, you could see a resurgence of Void harass. I wouldn't worry about Void Rays because they're a mess to begin with. They're one of the WoL units that needs looking at once the HotS units are squared away. It wouldn't make any sense if the Oracle were a Spore-killer as there is no way the Pulsar Beam will be 8+ range. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:13 Inf-badguy wrote: Ok so I got really excited about the oracle's pulsar beam ability because I misread it as saying that it would deal 20 damage per second to buildings AND drain 2 energy from a building per second, as opposed to costing to 2 oracle energy per second. Now that I've re-read that I'm a bit disappointed. That said though, I think that would actually be a really neat idea for an active harassment tool. If you could use the oracle to drain Nexus, Orbital Command and Queen energy, you could achieve the goal of indirect economic harassment while still maintaining a mechanic that scales with micro. Thoughts? I dunno about draining an opponent's energy...but what if Pulsar Beam could help regenerate Oracle energy? Like even if the anti-building attack is fairly weak, it'd be useful because you could use to get energy back quicker for more warp fields. It would really reward staying active at all times with your Oracle. | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:13 Inf-badguy wrote: Ok so I got really excited about the oracle's pulsar beam ability because I misread it as saying that it would deal 20 damage per second to buildings AND drain 2 energy from a building per second, as opposed to costing to 2 oracle energy per second. Now that I've re-read that I'm a bit disappointed. That said though, I think that would actually be a really neat idea for an active harassment tool. If you could use the oracle to drain Nexus, Orbital Command and Queen energy, you could achieve the goal of indirect economic harassment while still maintaining a mechanic that scales with micro. Thoughts? ty for clearing it up. I misread it too xD. they should add the draining effect on energy then but i dont know about the queens ^^. Draining energy makes it more useful harassing in pvt and pvp also. | ||
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Inf-badguy
Canada171 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:15 awesomoecalypse wrote: I dunno about draining an opponent's energy...but what if Pulsar Beam could help regenerate Oracle energy? Like even if the anti-building attack is fairly weak, it'd be useful because you could use to get energy back quicker for more warp fields. It would really reward staying active at all times with your Oracle. That's the thing about beta numbers in that they are always fluctuating and pointless to argue over. If the core ability was just able to drain energy at a hypothetical rate of 1 per second and do away with the building damage, I think you'd have a pretty cool ability that would be entertaining to watch. I envision a combination DT / oracle rush (silly for a rush of course given two required tech paths) where a terran can't scan because his Orbital Command is harassed below 50 energy; or a push where queens are sapped and unable to transfuse static defenses because of the harassment provided by oracles. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:52 Lightscythe wrote: I think people have forgotten that David Kim has said denying expansions under construction with the oracle is a breeze with a couple of oracles channeling Pulsar Beam, 20x2 or 20x3 dps kills constructing buildings fast. Fast zerg thirds are no more with an oracle + zealot combo, reminds me of the old void + zealot style but a hell of a lot faster. Yeah, let's wait to see how it plays out before we trust that the platinum players at Blizzard have exhausted all options to take a fast third. Methinks Zergs will find a way to handle this. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:15 Anomi wrote: ty for clearing it up. I misread it too xD. they should add the draining effect on energy then but i dont know about the queens ^^. Draining energy makes it more useful harassing in pvt and pvp also. But the harass would effectively be removing energy. My biggest issue is that blizzard is trying way to hard to make a "not kill anything" unit. Harass threatens tech and workers alike. And this poor DPS and per second energy costs is really kinda disappointing in its current state. The idea is cool but it is far from guaranteed damage. When I harass, I want to do guaranteed damage. I am going to stick with 2 immortal drops in PvP for sure. PvZ this might help if it along with a couple zealots can out DPS a building hatchery it can be very cool. | ||
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Inf-badguy
Canada171 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:15 Anomi wrote: ty for clearing it up. I misread it too xD. they should add the draining effect on energy then but i dont know about the queens ^^. Draining energy makes it more useful harassing in pvt and pvp also. Yeah I added Queens as well given that the whole idea of entomb was to provide some form of continuous economic harassment. I know its awkward to be able to target queens but given the zerg mechanic of spawn larva, it would have to work that way for the ability to be viable in all three match ups. It does of course introduce the problem of it scaling differently against each race since the abilities they can use with energy, and the amount of energy required vary so much. | ||
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Inf-badguy
Canada171 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:23 kcdc wrote: Yeah, let's wait to see how it plays out before we trust that the platinum players at Blizzard have exhausted all options to take a fast third. Methinks Zergs will find a way to handle this. That's also assuming you could even get an oracle out in time to harass the third if you fast expand yourself. | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:24 Inf-badguy wrote: Yeah I added Queens as well given that the whole idea of entomb was to provide some form of continuous economic harassment. I know its awkward to be able to target queens but given the zerg mechanic of spawn larva, it would have to work that way for the ability to be viable in all three match ups. It does of course introduce the problem of it scaling differently against each race since the abilities they can use with energy, and the amount of energy required vary so much. I like the idea of the oracle attacking the macro mechanics that boost the income. It falls under the category of indirect economic damage as u mentioned. Blizzard could add energy on the hatchery an make the defult spawn larva function the hatch has cost energy and be autocast . It currently spawns 3 larva every 15 sec. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Yeah I added Queens as well given that the whole idea of entomb was to provide some form of continuous economic harassment. I know its awkward to be able to target queens but given the zerg mechanic of spawn larva, it would have to work that way for the ability to be viable in all three match ups. It does of course introduce the problem of it scaling differently against each race since the abilities they can use with energy, and the amount of energy required vary so much. Having it work against Queens but not against other casters doesn't make sense--Queens aren't buildings, they're units. You'd literally have to make an ability read "Drains energy from buildings, and queens too, but not other units". Making a spell that works differently on one unit than every other unit is bad game design. OTOH, if it worked on every spellcaster, it could easily be way too strong, effectively giving Protoss their own version of EMP. | ||
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SC2ShoWTimE
Germany722 Posts
On October 25 2012 04:52 Lightscythe wrote: I think people have forgotten that David Kim has said denying expansions under construction with the oracle is a breeze with a couple of oracles channeling Pulsar Beam, 20x2 or 20x3 dps kills constructing buildings fast. Fast zerg thirds are no more with an oracle + zealot combo, reminds me of the old void + zealot style but a hell of a lot faster. you dont play zerg/protoss, huh? ^^ when zerg takes a fast third base it finishes around the 6 minute mark. by that time you just begin to build your stargate(after ffe) so i dont see how this could deny a 3 hatch opening by zerg. zergs will just build some spores and be fine. maybe with a gateway opening but im still not sure how it is going to work out. | ||
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