|
Thanks for everyone's feedback regarding the Oracle. We wanted to give you guys an update on where we're at right now.
1. Revelation is same as before.
2. Pulsar Beam - Passive anti structure ability that deals 20 damage per second. Drains 2 energy per second while channeling. Auto-cast on.
We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line.
Not only that, we feel this ability has a much greater skill differentiation depending on how well the ability is used. Entombs, no matter who uses them, had pretty much the same effect. Whereas Pulsar Beam will greatly reward players who are able to pay close attention and not lose the Oracles while quickly moving around all over the place in order to harass the opponent's base.
3. Time Warp - Creates a warp field at the target location that reduces enemy ground units' movement speed by 50%
We were aiming for a spell that gets us two main things with this last spell. One was something players can use in combination with Pulsar Beam when harassing the opponent's base. Second was something Protoss players can use in combination with their army. We feel this ability meets both requirements.
One thing we're discussing with Time Warp is if it should also be a time altering spell for timed life units as well. In this scenario, it would have an additional component that speeds up the timer on timed life units such as locusts, infested terrans, or mules.
Our current plan is to patch in the initial ability as fast as possible, and continue discussing/gathering feedback regarding the second component.
Oracle now feels like a unit that you build a few of and harass throughout the course of the whole game. Please let us know your thoughts and when the Oracle patch goes out, please take your time to play with it. Thanks~
Source: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5724354244#1
|
Seems like cool changes, I especially like the Time warp, Pulsar beam doesn't seem to exciting especially from a viewers' standpoint.
|
Pretty interesting, I like the abilities. And I like what they are thinking about Time Warp, something that Sase actually suggested(well, kind of).. ^^
We will see how it will turn out. Btw, now with 2-3 Oracles, you can actually fly around enemy base, and snipe some key structures pretty quickly. ;O
|
I'm not sure how going from entombing minerals to just building damage helps with harassment potential.
Also depending on what stats time-warp ends up with it may be too good of a combat spell to waste it on workers and mineral lines. I'm also pretty sure it will be soon decried as anti-micro.
|
I like it, it means that it can kill constructing expansions really fast and can destroy key tech structure in a lategame situation and there's no defense. It can nibble away at building.
|
Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches.
Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it.
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything.
|
hmm...not sure how I feel about the Oracle's primary harass being anti-structure.
Like, I like the idea of darting around the base using timewarps to stay ahead of defense. But how often will players build a unit just to snipe structures? I mean, say you want to take out an Engineering bay--even at 20 damage a second, it'll take over 40 seconds to take out the building, and thats assuming no response from the opponent. You can build multiple Oracles, but it seems like the gas cost would get prohibitive--your opponent is just gonna go kill you with basic units while you're stuck channeling his tech structures down.
Time Warp is a nice support spell, but again, is it enough that Protoss players will see Stargate as more attractive than robo, or if they do go Stargate, building Oracles as more attractive than other units? I guess it does slow down mining some if you use it on a mineral line, but will the impact be enough?
My concern is that the idea of a unit that flies around the base, using time warp to stay one step ahead while it channels down key tech sounds fun and all...but it really doesn't cripple the opponent's economy in a way that would justify building the Oracle over other units. Like for the cost of a stargate and 2 oracles, you could just have a much stronger army. You could have a warp prism and some units to load into it, and just go kill a bunch of workers. In what way is 20dps to buildings only preferable to a unit that can actually fight.
|
Italy12247 Posts
On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote:
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything.
Adding on to this, a greater spire has 1k hp. This means that if you make 5 oracles (reasonable assumption for a lategame scenario), it takes 10 seconds to kill it...10 seconds is a whole lot of time for such an expensive unit.
Earlier on in the game, a single Oracle isn't going to kill anything except a third.
I wish they just gave up and also gave it something that kills workers.
|
On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote:
Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches.
Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it.
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything.
With too of them, you have 40 DPS, its like 5 marauders. 5 marauders kill hatcheries very very fast. It has the potential to be a very good spell.
|
Time Warp should be what fungal does.
SC2 needs less abilities that reduce micro potential.
|
So I am understanding this correctly in that the Oracle now could serve as a semi functional raiding unit with that open warp field?
I think it would be interesting if the acted as perhaps a very small, temporary, two way recall. So you could select a small group of units, recall them to the Zerg Hatchery that is morphing, and either wait for the spell to run out or manually cast the recall back to an established power field.
If the Oracle were destroyed, or the units were pulled out of the field they would be stuck at the forward location. As I write this fungal would be a pain in the ass to deal with, and vipers could potentially snatch high value targets, but kind of an interesting idea in my opinion. inb4 balance.
|
This is the first Oracle version where I can't honestly pinpoint anything as obviously bad or horrible. Pulse might end up being useful for sniping key structures and odds/ends, but this will prevent midgame viability because you can't rely on that to survive. So, it will take some testing to see if if 20 building DPS really does anything. My other minor complaint is that Blizzard is being too close minded again with the changes with Time Warp. It should hit air units too, because the Oracle is already extremely vulnerable to air threats. The Widow Mine gets everything and the kitchen sink, Fungal and Storm and EMP all hit air too. It should start with air/ground to see what dynamics look good, then adjust afterward. I can see great synergy with Tempest/Time Warp if they would just allow it to happen.
|
On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote:
Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches.
Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it.
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything.
100% agreed. For Pulsar Beam to be at all meaningful and worthwhile as a core harass spell, it needs to be *really* good at killing buildings. There's a reason harass targets workers not buildings--buildings take forever to kill. 20 dps doesn't cut it at all. Maybe like 40 dps--then 2 Oracles could focus down most buildings in 10 or 15 seconds if the enemy doesn't react.
20 dps means it takes 40+ seconds for an Oracle to kill any buildings worth using it on. That is just stupid.All that will happen is the Oracle does a tiny bit of damage to a building, the enemy sends some units to drive it off, and the Oracle flies away having wasted some energy for no result. Congrats, you've just spent 150 gas to partially damage a building. Enjoy losing your games.
|
On October 25 2012 02:31 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote:
Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches.
Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it.
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything. With too of them, you have 40 DPS, its like 5 marauders. 5 marauders kill hatcheries very very fast. It has the potential to be a very good spell.
No, 40 DPS is 2 stimmed marauders. Pulsar beam has the same DPS vs buildings as a stimmed marauder. Oracles fly, but marauders cost one sixth as much gas and can target units. If you can get a bunch of oracles, the attack will be powerful because it's hard to catch oracles. But I question whether you can afford to get a bunch of oracles. We'll see.
|
With too of them, you have 40 DPS, its like 5 marauders. 5 marauders kill hatcheries very very fast. It has the potential to be a very good spell.
40 dps takes 20+ seconds to kill even an ebay, and nearly 40 seconds to kill a hatchery. Given that the Oracle is fragile and easily driven away once the enemy responds to it, and given that 2 Oracles will set you back 300 gas...thats actually complete shit. Plus Marauders can, you know, actually fight. Building them doesn't cripple your ability to defend yourself. Whereas Oracles set you back so much you have to do damage to make it worth it.
If a unit's core harassment spell is anti-building only, and that unit is also fragile as hell and extremely expensive, then that spell needs to really, really fuck up buildings badly to be worth it. 20 dps does not cut it.
|
On October 25 2012 02:36 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:31 Insoleet wrote:On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote:
Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches.
Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it.
This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything. With too of them, you have 40 DPS, its like 5 marauders. 5 marauders kill hatcheries very very fast. It has the potential to be a very good spell. No, 40 DPS is 2 stimmed marauders. Pulsar beam has the same DPS vs buildings as a stimmed marauder. Oracles fly, but marauders cost one sixth as much gas and can target units. If you can get a bunch of oracles, the attack will be powerful because it's hard to catch oracles. But I question whether you can afford to get a bunch of oracles. We'll see.
I think honestly that Pulsar beam is just really a matter of adusting numbers. The concept is pretty neat. It's a hell lot better then Void Sinphon
|
I don't really see any channeled harass ability from the oracle do anything in PvT to be honest. Channeling to deal damage also doesn't seem very exciting.
I like the AoE slow a lot. I wonder how long it lasts. It could even be used on workers if the area/duration are long enough.
I wonder if it wouldn't be an easier/better solution to just give the Oracle a regular attack instead of the channeled ability. I'd think that an AoE slow and Revelation should already offer enough versatility, and the oracle would still be very unique in that it is a fast flying unit that can attack worker lines and contribute in battles.
|
acturally the warp field thing is a great harrassment tool. cast it in a mineral line = only half the income which is insanely good.
4 oracles do 80 dps so they kill a spore in 5 seconds which is also pretty good. so yeah 20 dps might not seem that much but it has its use.
especially since oracles can do a lot more than that with warp field and revelation. seems like really nice 3 spells but we´ll see how it works out. much better than entombed anyway.
|
can you slow down enemy orkers with that time field?
|
I just hope that they will make Forcefield destructible now that there is a slow spell in the protoss arsenal. Else, it will probably ridiculously... op 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
