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I propose one of two changes to Pulsar Beam:
1) Make it splash to units that are standing next to the building. It can then be used to break chokes (target the supply depot, kill marines) as well as proper worker harass (target the CC). When you're trying to chase the Oracle away, it might require more than an a-move.
2) Make it lock down buildings that it targets (replace contaminate with something more overseer-y). Will be great against primarily research buildings and turrets.
I don't think that "simply damage a building" is very useful spell for a fragile and gas heavy unit, unless the numbers are very high.
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i will need to see spell cost on time warp but i see it as an entomb replacement. worker movement speed is reduced by 50%, mining speed is probably the same, so you end up having a bit of a backlog of workers ... but you are still mining.
it would be cool to see it in combination with storm but then, it just overlaps with forcefield to restrict unit movement, and unlike forcefield, doesn't actually trap units. further by description, sounds like it doesnt reduce unit dps anyways.
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So.. Pulsar beam makes it literally a void ray? Wasn't being a building sniper the intended use for voids in the first place?
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4 oracles do 80 dps so they kill a spore in 5 seconds which is also pretty good. so yeah 20 dps might not seem that much but it has its use.
4 Oracles is 600 gas. Plus the Stargate, thats 750 gas. Given the build time for SG and Oracles, it will take 4 to 5 minutes (depending on chrono) from when you start building a stargate to when you have 4 Oracles.
Do you know what happens to a Protoss who ties up 700 gas in the early/mid game in units that can't attack or defend?
They die. You won't have any FFs. You'll barely have Stalkers. You'll be stuck with slow Zealots and Cannons. And meantime, your precious "investment" is chipping away at buildings. Not workers. Not army. Buildings. If they fail to snipe a key structure, you lose the game. If they succeed, you might survive...but chances are your opponent will just kill you before you can pull it off anyway.
Protoss are not Terran or Zerg. Even with Chrono, we have limited ability to make non-WG units quickly. We are also gas starved as hell in the early and midgame, and very, very vulnerable if we skimp on stalkers and sentries. So if we committ to Stargate harass, we need to do good damage, or we're hopelessly behind and totally vulnerable. Just targetting buildings makes it so there's a good chance all that tech won't actually accomplish anything meaninful.
For Pulsar to be worth it, it needs to do a lot of damage to buildings. Not like as much as a stimmed Marauder...more like as much as an Immortal (35 dps vs buildings). Or alternatively, it needs another effect, like shutting down buildings effected like contaminate or something.
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On October 25 2012 02:57 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +4 oracles do 80 dps so they kill a spore in 5 seconds which is also pretty good. so yeah 20 dps might not seem that much but it has its use.
4 Oracles is 600 gas. Plus the Stargate, thats 750 gas. Given the build time for SG and Oracles, it will take 4 to 5 minutes (depending on chrono) from when you start building a stargate to when you have 4 Oracles. Do you know what happens to a Protoss who ties up 700 gas in the early/mid game in units that can't attack or defend? They die. You won't have any FFs. You'll barely have Stalkers. You'll be stuck with slow Zealots and Cannons. And meantime, your precious "investment" is chipping away at buildings. Not workers. Not army. Buildings. If they fail to snipe a key structure, you lose the game. If they succeed, you might survive...but chances are your opponent will just kill you before you can pull it off anyway. Protoss are not Terran or Zerg. Even with Chrono, we have limited ability to make non-WG units quickly. We are also gas starved as hell in the early and midgame, and very, very vulnerable if we skimp on stalkers and sentries. So if we committ to Stargate harass, we need to do good damage, or we're hopelessly behind and totally vulnerable. Just targetting buildings makes it so there's a good chance all that tech won't actually accomplish anything meaninful. For Pulsar to be worth it, it needs to do a lot of damage to buildings. Not like as much as a stimmed Marauder...more like as much as an Immortal (35 dps vs buildings). Or alternatively, it needs another effect, like shutting down buildings effected like contaminate or something.
dont quote parts of my posts.
i also said that warp field halfs the opponents income and revelation will be effectively later on to gain vision for tempest or scouting.
no one ever said go 4 oracle rush, thats not needed. 1-2 oracles might easily do it and warp field harrass into later on building harrass etc. might work out very fine.
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Well wouldnt time warp be adding to the death ball is my only issue
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Time Warp seems to be a good spell. Usable in attacking, defending, and harassing. You could use it on workers to decrease mining time, which is what Entomb was doing.
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In order to keep an Oracle from killing a Barracks (because it'll run out of energy first), a Terran player needs 1 SCV repairing to keep it from being sniped. 1 SCV is actually overkill if you're trying to snipe an engineering bay. With 1 SCV repairing, an Oracle is just barely able to kill a tech lab by expending all of its energy.
I've never used Pulsar beam before, but with these stats, how could it be good?
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i also said that warp field halfs the opponents income and revelation will be effectively later on to gain vision for tempest or scouting.
its not clear warp field halves income.
it obviously slows it down some--but mining time is not just the back and forth movement from minerals (and gas) to the main structure, it also involves the time the workers is actually at the patch harvesting resources. unless it also halves minining time (which their note doesn't say anything about), then warp field will slow mining some by disrupting movement, but not by the full 50% since it won't effect mining time when the workers are actually harvesting patches. The precise impact is something people will need to calculate by figuring out how much time spent mining is actually spent on patches vs. moving back and forth. on the other hand, it does effect gas mining, which is a nice buff.
but regardless, even if warp field is effective harass, it isn't clear that Pulsar is useful. How often are Oracles gonna be better served trying to channel a lot of energy for a long time to bring down a building, vs. saving their energy to slow mining?
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the most annoying spell of Wc3 makes its way into Sc2 
well with shit like Slow, Fungal, in time there will be Disenchant too
at least Entomb is gone
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On October 25 2012 03:05 Treehead wrote:
In order to keep an Oracle from killing a Barracks (because it'll run out of energy first), a Terran player needs 1 SCV repairing to keep it from being sniped. 1 SCV is actually overkill if you're trying to snipe an engineering bay. With 1 SCV repairing, an Oracle is just barely able to kill a tech lab by expending all of its energy.
I've never used Pulsar beam before, but with these stats, how could it be good?
exactly. 20 dps vs buildings only,requiring energy, channeling, and from a unit that costs 150 gas...is just shit. it really is.
the concept is a good one. but the numbers are way too low.
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On October 25 2012 03:02 raf3776 wrote:
Well wouldnt time warp be adding to the death ball is my only issue
It needs to be very short range. If it can only be cast right near the Oracle, then it will be good for harass and in small enganements, but if you try to fly it close to an enemy deathball to slow them you'll get shot down almost instantly. it would take actual cleverness and tactics to use it in a giant deathball engagement.
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On October 25 2012 03:08 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:05 Treehead wrote:
In order to keep an Oracle from killing a Barracks (because it'll run out of energy first), a Terran player needs 1 SCV repairing to keep it from being sniped. 1 SCV is actually overkill if you're trying to snipe an engineering bay. With 1 SCV repairing, an Oracle is just barely able to kill a tech lab by expending all of its energy.
I've never used Pulsar beam before, but with these stats, how could it be good? exactly. 20 dps vs buildings only,requiring energy, channeling, and from a unit that costs 150 gas...is just shit. it really is. the concept is a good one. but the numbers are way too low.
Numbers can be tweaked easily though, if they feel it doesn't do enough damage they can buff it. It's really at this stage of the beta the concepts of the spell that should be good.
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I think Pulsar beam could be cool if it had some tweaks. Aside from changing dps it could:
- Charge like a Void Ray
I think if you break channeling the spell it shouldnt hold its charge though. Oracles are pretty weak so they need to be babysat, but this would mean good micro/multitask would make it more powerful since they're so fast you can do maximum damage and get away
- Link to another nearby building and do damage in a chain the longer you channel the spell.
This way it would spread to 2 or 3 buildings and do "splash damage". It would punish bad building placement or just make the spell more damaging. Right now the damage won't do much vs high hp buildings but if you set 4 depots that are clumped up on fire and force your opponent to react or lose a bunch of supply it could be good harassment.
EDIT: Second thought: Time Warp could be really good if it did shorten the lifespan of timed life units. Would make fighting infested terran spam easier since they are too slow to escape it
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I like that the oracle now makes zealots a lot better, especially against terran. My initial reaction to the anti building attack is positive, it kind of depends on the range. I think it can make for good synergy between VRs, pheonix and oracles when harassing and fighting base defenses.
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ow no this is awful..
Terribly unfun abilities.
Pulsar beam? Just a crappy attack against buildings that costs energy? kcdc pointed this out well but it has virtually no use, what are you going to kill with it really?
Time warp is even more terrible, it increases protoss reliability on chokes and forcefield.. Attacking into a protoss is already tricky with zerg given forcefield, now with timewarp you can't even retreat. Another anti-movement ability is too much for protoss, you get plays where you try to prod vs protoss, then they timewarp you, chase you, and FF you.. Making it too risky to play aggresive promotes passive/deathball play..
Ugh dustin browder just stinks, there were quite some interesting abilities proposed and they came up with this... They only make the protoss changes for HotS worse and worse... Just fire the guy already..
Seriously buff or change that pulsar beam and just get rid of time warp please.
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Second thought: Time Warp could be really good if it did alter the lifespan of timed life units. Would make fighting infested terran spam easier since they are too slow to escape
The only thing I dont like about this is its counterintuitive and doesn't really work in terms of flavor.
That is, the "idea" behind the spell is the Oracle is slowing down time so enemy units move slower. But slowing down time would logically make timed life units last longer. "This spell slows down time for movement purposes, but speeds it up for lifespan purposes" just isn't very sensible or intuitive. Not that every power needs to make "sense" in this way, but its just a minor annoyance.
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so it's safe to say you destroyed protoss hots?
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EPT
