EPTI got beta access this morning, havnt played yet (somehow managed to waste like 4 hours doing nothing but reddit/tl and staring at desktop) so il be reporting stats and usage etc. My skill level is somewhere around high dia/low master ATM.
Oracle Changes - Page 13
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
I got beta access this morning, havnt played yet (somehow managed to waste like 4 hours doing nothing but reddit/tl and staring at desktop) so il be reporting stats and usage etc. My skill level is somewhere around high dia/low master ATM. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On October 26 2012 09:51 Antylamon wrote: Toss doesn't have to spread against tanks because of Chargelots, doesn't bother spreading against EMP very often, doesn't have to worry about Widow Mine splash damage since it's only 40, can kill Ravens before they get close enough to cast, and can kill both Hellions and HellBats before they do much damage, except against Zeals with no Stalker support. Use hellbats against chargelots. The tanks are good against the stalkers that you think will save the lots. It's their own damn fault if they don't spread against EMP. One EMP will instantaneously reduce your army life by between 1/3 and 1/2. That is serious business. One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out an entire army of stalkers, or almost an entire army of zealots. Doesn't sound so bad. Anyone can kill anything before it gets close enough to cast. Unless, you know, your opponent uses micro too! | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On October 25 2012 02:21 kcdc wrote: Time Warp is great. It has the potential to makes zealots much better against roaches. Pulsar beam is just a banshee attack that only hits buildings and costs 2 energy. I can't even hit overlords with it. What am I supposed to kill with a 20 DPS attack that only hits buildings? Not supply depots because I can't build an oracle against Terran. Not pylons because oracles are flatly worse than phoenixes in PvP. I guess I'm supposed to kill Z's third hatchery before he gets queens over there. And that's it. This is a combat buff for the oracle but a big harass nerf. Buildings have hundreds or thousands of hit points. 20 DPS isn't enough to kill anything. It will probably get changed at some point to also slow down production/research in the buildings being attacked. | ||
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
On October 25 2012 02:15 MyFirstProbe wrote: Seems like cool changes, I especially like the Time warp, Pulsar beam doesn't seem to exciting especially from a viewers' standpoint. Called it, now it's just a question of calculating the necessary radious, duration and snare % in order to ensure some economic damage and then the spell can be used vs kiting etc. for added utility. I imagine it'll have a larger area of effect and longer duration than Force Field in order to differentiate the abilities between a soft counter and a hard counter for positional play. Revelation and Pulsar Beam are just chaff, they may as well make the unit a detector and design two less conditional spells | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On October 26 2012 20:26 gedatsu wrote: It's their own damn fault if they don't spread against EMP. One EMP will instantaneously reduce your army life by between 1/3 and 1/2. That is serious business. One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out an entire army of stalkers, or almost an entire army of zealots. Doesn't sound so bad. You say that as if EMP had an AoE of a full screen. One EMP will instantaneously reduce the life of some units, not your whole army, by between 1/3 and 1/2. It's no serious business, if you don't get carpet EMPed. One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out what? 6 or 7 Stalkers maybe or 10-12 Zealots? That's a small entire army indeed. And think about another thing. When you EMP Protoss Gateway units, they still have roughly as much HP left as undamaged Terran Bio units. In a Storm, Bio can die... in timewarp and storm, they will die. Does it sound bad enough now? | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
On October 26 2012 23:15 BurningRanger wrote: One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out what? 6 or 7 Stalkers maybe or 10-12 Zealots? That's a small entire army indeed. 1 Ghost 200/100+ 2 Mines 75/25 = Total 350/150 7 Stalker 125/50 = Total 875/350 12 Zealots 100 = Total 1200 Trading 350/150 for 875/350 or 1200 is something that will win you the game in my opinion. I am not saying the trading will be like that since the Protoss player will try to clear out the mines before engaging, but you wrote it like it would be a bad trade for the Terran while to me it looks like a top-notch-game-winning trade. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On October 26 2012 23:15 BurningRanger wrote: You say that as if EMP had an AoE of a full screen. One EMP will instantaneously reduce the life of some units, not your whole army, by between 1/3 and 1/2. It's no serious business, if you don't get carpet EMPed. One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out what? 6 or 7 Stalkers maybe or 10-12 Zealots? That's a small entire army indeed. And think about another thing. When you EMP Protoss Gateway units, they still have roughly as much HP left as undamaged Terran Bio units. In a Storm, Bio can die... in timewarp and storm, they will die. Does it sound bad enough now? No, I say it as if you can build more than one ghost. And I say it as if you think protoss players can keep their entire army in one clump and still be fine. They cannot. Clearing out 6-7 stalkers or 10-12 zealots in the start of the fight is amazingly good. You've traded a 40 second recharge timer for 20 supply. Weren't those the zealots or stalkers that you expected to take care of the other terran splash? Too bad, they died before they could. Raw hp numbers are not comparable like that. Bio has range and speed over the protoss gateway units. 1 unupgraded marine beats 1 unupgraded zealot, you know? Stuff like that? Your armies are supposed to be on even terms when protoss has shields, forcefields, and guardian shield. Terran just removed all that in a second. And sure, storm can kill units while EMP cannot. But Storm can be dodged and EMP does all its damage immediately. This is a big deal. If your bio is getting timewarped and stormed, load them into your medivacs. Timewarp doesn't affect air and medivacs can stomach one storm pretty well. | ||
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obsidia
122 Posts
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On October 27 2012 01:22 obsidia wrote: Is this really the best they can come up with after so long. Its abilties seem utterly trash compared to what other harrass units can accomplish, a well microd/timed medivac drop can EASILY win games, the oracle might be able to take a refinery or 2 down for a ridiculous gas investment and a weak as hell, risky tech path. Yeah it's really funny how bad the beam is. It's literally the same DPS as a single Banshee. And how often do you see a Banshee take out a refinery? Plus the real reason you don't see Banshees attacking buildings is because they can attack anything on the ground with that DPS! Since you can only target buildings, a single SCV can repair the damage, while you uselessly waste energy trying to "harass." And then you realize that it isn't even constant damage. You have to spend 2 energy for each 20 damage! How can you even use other spells with this drain going on. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 27 2012 01:46 Fig wrote: Yeah it's really funny how bad the beam is. It's literally the same DPS as a single Banshee. And how often do you see a Banshee take out a refinery? Plus the real reason you don't see Banshees attacking buildings is because they can attack anything on the ground with that DPS! Since you can only target buildings, a single SCV can repair the damage, while you uselessly waste energy trying to "harass." And then you realize that it isn't even constant damage. You have to spend 2 energy for each 20 damage! How can you even use other spells with this drain going on. I was under the impression it did the same damage as a stimmed Marauder, which is more than a banshee when it shoots at armored units. And we will have to see how the ability works. When maxed at 200/200, the 8 supply that four of these would take up could be very useful for harassment, more so than four stalkers. Killing drones or SCVs at that point in the game is a bit pointless unless you kill an entire mineral line. Plus the other two spells for map awareness and slowing the opposing army. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On October 27 2012 01:57 Plansix wrote: I was under the impression it did the same damage as a stimmed Marauder, which is more than a banshee when it shoots at armored units. And we will have to see how the ability works. When maxed at 200/200, the 8 supply that four of these would take up could be very useful for harassment, more so than four stalkers. Killing drones or SCVs at that point in the game is a bit pointless unless you kill an entire mineral line. Plus the other two spells for map awareness and slowing the opposing army. Yeah the DPS is basically the same (19.2 vs 20). And I'm sure that having 4 150/150 Stargate units will be better than 4 Blink Stalkers for harassing purposes lategame. But that's the problem, lategame. Protosses have ways to harass lategame, they need more early game harass. And relying on energy based units to deal damage to even an undefended base is much worse than a medivac drop, and worse than 4 DT's from a warp prism for example. The Oracles may take out one or two tech structures, but then they will need to wait 4 minutes to be able to go in again. That's not very useful. In that amount of time, any other kind of drop or banshee would have destroyed the entire base. Edit: and I just found out the Oracles are 3 supply... so sad | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Marauder DPS with 2 energy/sec cost that only hits buildings is so bad it's fun. | ||
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JoFeSboyAT
Austria128 Posts
maybe adding an effect to slow down the production/research by x% while damaging would make is really viable and open up cool timings. | ||
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Halozination
69 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
Yay (: | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On October 27 2012 15:56 Cyro wrote: Time Warp covers an area 4x as big as a forcefield, pulsar beam buffed slightly, and build time almost halved. Yay (: I know that pulsar beam isn't AMAZING OMG WTF but damn if massing them oracles isnt fun I am not trying and am not playing people my usual MMR but some times Zerg puts a pool too close to open air and I just gotta 6 range leash that for some maximum trollage | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
I am also facing a mass of people in beta who seem to be like silver-plat league, so fun. People tryhard so much at that level, hidden expansions, lifting orbitals and flying away and building 10 barracks and supply depots with their bank :D:D Oracle time | ||
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AbideWithMe
207 Posts
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mongoose22
174 Posts
On October 27 2012 23:21 AbideWithMe wrote: Has anybody actually played a game with time warp? It is yet another completely ridiculous uncounterable battle field manipulating spell by protoss. I'm not going to bother playing the beta until the next patch. Time Warp is the most ridiculous joke blizzard has come up with as of late. If something like this has to be in a game it should stay with something like a mothership but not a freakin 150/150 stargate unit. If you've got a beta key, then you are in the unique position of being able to influence Blizzard by providing feedback. So post that on the Battle.net forums with less vitriol and more reasoning as to why you think so (devs gets nothing out of calling something a joke and leaving it at that) and that time warp might just be nerfed next week. You're not taking advantage of your key if you just rage on a TL forum and wait for Blizzard to act. Also understand that things usually start off overpowered in testing, because it encourages players to use it, thus promoting more feedback. No one tests things they think are weaksauce in a public beta. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On October 26 2012 20:26 gedatsu wrote: Use hellbats against chargelots. The tanks are good against the stalkers that you think will save the lots. It's their own damn fault if they don't spread against EMP. One EMP will instantaneously reduce your army life by between 1/3 and 1/2. That is serious business. One EMP and two mines and you've cleared out an entire army of stalkers, or almost an entire army of zealots. Doesn't sound so bad. Anyone can kill anything before it gets close enough to cast. Unless, you know, your opponent uses micro too! Unfortunately I don't have HotS, so all I can do is theorycraft. :/ Thanks for the info. | ||
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