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On October 26 2012 02:36 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 21:49 gedatsu wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 killy666 wrote:
I completely dislike the slow spell. It reduce micro capabilities, and it empowers the Deathball aspect endgame protoss army.
I suppose you could say the same thing with fungal and tier 3 zerg. It incentivizes the enemy to not keep his units in a deathball. If he does, all of it will get slowed and he'll be in big trouble. This is a good thing. This "it reduces micro" complaint has never been a good one. Using those spells is micro. And where is the Terran AoE which forces the Protoss (besides casters) to have to spread? Maybe widow mine splash damage should be increased so Protoss have to learn to spread as well. Or maybe make seekers missile have more range or travel faster.
Tanks, EMP, Widow Mines, Seeker Missile, Hellions (both versions).
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I like the new pulsar beam.
If I understand correctly, the ability activates automatically if there's an enemy building nearby and does 20 damage at the cost of 2 energy.
The Oracle is fast, so you just fly-by a base a couple of time with a few oracle and soon enough, all the enemy building are blowing up left and right. Every time the enemy tries to move out without defense, you can poke inside his base and destroy all his buildings!
It's also the ultimate unit for a base race!
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On October 26 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:36 vthree wrote:On October 25 2012 21:49 gedatsu wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 killy666 wrote:
I completely dislike the slow spell. It reduce micro capabilities, and it empowers the Deathball aspect endgame protoss army.
I suppose you could say the same thing with fungal and tier 3 zerg. It incentivizes the enemy to not keep his units in a deathball. If he does, all of it will get slowed and he'll be in big trouble. This is a good thing. This "it reduces micro" complaint has never been a good one. Using those spells is micro. And where is the Terran AoE which forces the Protoss (besides casters) to have to spread? Maybe widow mine splash damage should be increased so Protoss have to learn to spread as well. Or maybe make seekers missile have more range or travel faster. Tanks, EMP, Widow Mines, Seeker Missile, Hellions (both versions).
Toss doesn't have to spread against tanks because of Chargelots, doesn't bother spreading against EMP very often, doesn't have to worry about Widow Mine splash damage since it's only 40, can kill Ravens before they get close enough to cast, and can kill both Hellions and HellBats before they do much damage, except against Zeals with no Stalker support.
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On October 26 2012 09:38 Tdelamay wrote:
I like the new pulsar beam.
If I understand correctly, the ability activates automatically if there's an enemy building nearby and does 20 damage at the cost of 2 energy.
The Oracle is fast, so you just fly-by a base a couple of time with a few oracle and soon enough, all the enemy building are blowing up left and right. Every time the enemy tries to move out without defense, you can poke inside his base and destroy all his buildings!
It's also the ultimate unit for a base race!
I would imagine it works exactly like a medivac. No damage while moving.
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On October 26 2012 09:51 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:On October 26 2012 02:36 vthree wrote:On October 25 2012 21:49 gedatsu wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 killy666 wrote:
I completely dislike the slow spell. It reduce micro capabilities, and it empowers the Deathball aspect endgame protoss army.
I suppose you could say the same thing with fungal and tier 3 zerg. It incentivizes the enemy to not keep his units in a deathball. If he does, all of it will get slowed and he'll be in big trouble. This is a good thing. This "it reduces micro" complaint has never been a good one. Using those spells is micro. And where is the Terran AoE which forces the Protoss (besides casters) to have to spread? Maybe widow mine splash damage should be increased so Protoss have to learn to spread as well. Or maybe make seekers missile have more range or travel faster. Tanks, EMP, Widow Mines, Seeker Missile, Hellions (both versions). Toss doesn't have to spread against tanks because of Chargelots, doesn't bother spreading against EMP very often, doesn't have to worry about Widow Mine splash damage since it's only 40, can kill Ravens before they get close enough to cast, and can kill both Hellions and HellBats before they do much damage, except against Zeals with no Stalker support.
Generalized bullshit post right here. Have you seen how fast hellions light up zealots? We don't spread against emp? I dunno what kind of toss you're playing against but if I get hit by an emp i can only watch as my army immediately evaporates if I try to fight. You can control click tanks to make them fire against stalkers while hellions destroy the zealots. Only 40 splash? Ok and 5 mines later? 5 mines isn't a huge investment. I'm gonna laugh when during the entire duration of HoTS terran gets nerfed because they still have more options than any other race.
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On October 26 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:36 vthree wrote:On October 25 2012 21:49 gedatsu wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 killy666 wrote:
I completely dislike the slow spell. It reduce micro capabilities, and it empowers the Deathball aspect endgame protoss army.
I suppose you could say the same thing with fungal and tier 3 zerg. It incentivizes the enemy to not keep his units in a deathball. If he does, all of it will get slowed and he'll be in big trouble. This is a good thing. This "it reduces micro" complaint has never been a good one. Using those spells is micro. And where is the Terran AoE which forces the Protoss (besides casters) to have to spread? Maybe widow mine splash damage should be increased so Protoss have to learn to spread as well. Or maybe make seekers missile have more range or travel faster. Tanks, EMP, Widow Mines, Seeker Missile, Hellions (both versions).
They keyword that needs to be added is "Quality" AoE. Tanks are probably the only quality ones.
I also just don't get why an AoE slow is being introduced when so many people complain about concussive shell already. And AoE slow + FF seems overkill for trapping units and escaping (and escaping theres recall too)
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Man I really wanted oracle to have iradiate spell...so much potential skill wise and spectator wise.
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Time warp + psi storm DAYUM!
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On October 26 2012 11:56 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 09:38 Tdelamay wrote:
I like the new pulsar beam.
If I understand correctly, the ability activates automatically if there's an enemy building nearby and does 20 damage at the cost of 2 energy.
The Oracle is fast, so you just fly-by a base a couple of time with a few oracle and soon enough, all the enemy building are blowing up left and right. Every time the enemy tries to move out without defense, you can poke inside his base and destroy all his buildings!
It's also the ultimate unit for a base race! I would imagine it works exactly like a medivac. No damage while moving.
I think you can move while using it. It says in the op:
We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line.
Not only that, we feel this ability has a much greater skill differentiation depending on how well the ability is used. Entombs, no matter who uses them, had pretty much the same effect. Whereas Pulsar Beam will greatly reward players who are able to pay close attention and not lose the Oracles while quickly moving around all over the place in order to harass the opponent's base.
They want you to be using the oracles mobility to move around while the channeling is happening.
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United States7483 Posts
The oracle needs detection back on revelation, observers don't cut it against the swarm host/overseer/corrupter (or any anti-air really) combination that keeps pushing forever and can't be stopped because you can never get your detection close.
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A look at the numbers:
Cost: 150/150, 3 supply
Stargate Cost: 150/150
Speed: That of a speed warp prism.
Oracle takes as long as a thor to build  ... though you can chronoboost it from 60 seconds to 40 seconds (ingame seconds)... EDIT: that reminds me I didn't take into account the smaller energy accumulation of the first oracle in the case that you chronoboost the second... at worst it will accumulate 33.75/1.5 = 22.5 energy accumulated... means high energy oracle will have 42 energy instead of 50 at the end.
Damage Output: 20 dmg per second @ 2 energy per second
Casters pop with 50 energy, so lets say you made 2 oracles (you spent 450 gas and waited 120 seconds from the time your stargate completed)
So, the first oracle you made has an extra 33.75 energy according to the regen rate on liquipedia.
Now you have a 50 energy oracle and an 84 energy oracle. By the time you reach the enemy base lets assume 30 seconds pass. Oracles have 67 and 101.
Supposing you spend all your energy on building damage, you can do 1340 damage over 34 seconds. After these 34 seconds, the low energy oracle will have 19 energy remaining and the high energy oracle will have 53 energy remaining.
Seems interesting.
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I definitely preferred entomb to this. I don't see how this is any different from sending void rays or warp prism or drops in general into the opponents base...Only difference is that this can't kill workers but does alot of damage per sec?
Also a slow spell? Playing vs toss is gonna be ridiculous. You are now gonna be forcefielded aand slowed?
I dunno...
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On October 26 2012 16:44 Cereb wrote:
I definitely preferred entomb to this. I don't see how this is any different from sending void rays or warp prism or drops in general into the opponents base...Only difference is that this can't kill workers but does alot of damage per sec?
Also a slow spell? Playing vs toss is gonna be ridiculous. You are now gonna be forcefielded aand slowed?
I dunno...
Depends on the area of the spell.
Remember, doubling the radius of a circle quadruples the area. 4 radius covers 16x as much space as 1.
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Northern Ireland27303 Posts
Liking at least the direction of the changes. Have long felt that Stargate tech doesn't need a harassment unit, but a good support caster with some utility. Time warp may be ridiculous though, but it's the change in the proposed role of the oracle that I quite like
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Canada11603 Posts
I don't understand this part
2. Pulsar Beam - Passive anti structure ability that deals 20 damage per second. Drains 2 energy per second while channeling. Auto-cast on.
We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line.
If it's channeling, isn't it sitting in one spot? And if it's sitting in one spot how is that utilizing it's speed? And if it's sitting in one spot, how is this very different from a energy based, limited voidray except that it doesn't get more powerful over time?
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Possible alternative: make Pulsar beam like the planet cracker ability from the old old mothership that could hit an area of 1 mineral patch to a ~4 marine square. Make it channeled and usable while moving and do 5-10 dps vs units +20/30 to buildings. Adds to the idea that its a fragile fast unit that is pretty useless in straight up combat and relegated to a more support role.
Heck, make it be a trail of burning plasma that last for ~2 seconds doing damage to units/buidlings underneath.
edit:derp, mentioned about 2-3 pages earlier
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
^10dps would allow you to clear an entire mineral line in 10-15 real seconds, but bigger issues, if someone just builds 4 oracles they now have a stacking AOE on a flying unit capable of outrunning stimmed marines that will instantly kill workers.
Thats why i think the anti-building beam could be sweet - if you have 4 or 5 oracles, granted, its a massive gas cost - but time warp could allow them to have a very powerful combat use - if you have 4 or 5 oracles, you can REALLY mess with any race. Zerg has no t1 antiair other than spores and queens so are natively quite vunerable - but 5 oracles? You can kill a pylon in 2.88 real seconds. If protoss does not have cannons or stalkers around his production, or has moved out of his base, you can CRIPPLE him with half a dozen oracles in as little as 10-20 seconds. Terran? Addons.
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On October 26 2012 17:27 Falling wrote:I don't understand this part Show nested quote +2. Pulsar Beam - Passive anti structure ability that deals 20 damage per second. Drains 2 energy per second while channeling. Auto-cast on.
We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line. If it's channeling, isn't it sitting in one spot? And if it's sitting in one spot how is that utilizing it's speed? And if it's sitting in one spot, how is this very different from a energy based, limited voidray except that it doesn't get more powerful over time?
Perhaps its tethered similar to how neural parasite works for the parasited unit? In other words... stay within a certain range and the spell continues so you try to dance around the target building.
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I'm not really positive or negative over the beam addition. What i do find important is the reason why entomb was removed. The signal that blizzard sees skill differentiation as an important aspect gives a lot of hope.
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On October 26 2012 19:09 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 17:27 Falling wrote:I don't understand this part 2. Pulsar Beam - Passive anti structure ability that deals 20 damage per second. Drains 2 energy per second while channeling. Auto-cast on.
We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line. If it's channeling, isn't it sitting in one spot? And if it's sitting in one spot how is that utilizing it's speed? And if it's sitting in one spot, how is this very different from a energy based, limited voidray except that it doesn't get more powerful over time? Perhaps its tethered similar to how neural parasite works for the parasited unit? In other words... stay within a certain range and the spell continues so you try to dance around the target building.
From what I've read I doubt that it will work that way - but to me this seems like an awsome idea
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EPT
