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On October 25 2012 06:05 awesomoecalypse wrote:
i definitely think Time Warp should be enemy-only--one of the things I'm most excited about it is it opens up options for getting aggressive with Zealots without needing Forcefields or Charge. If Zealots were slowed by it though it'd be pointless. Making it enemy-only turns it from something that is exclusively harassment, to something that really opens up Protoss gameplay in a positive way by giving them options that don't rely on forcefield.
Well not necessarily. Again speculating on something that we don't know the area affected, cost to cast, duration, etc. is difficult. However, I think it would identify better with protoss spells (forcefield, psi storm, vortex) if it influenced the protoss units as well. Yes it wouldn't help a zealot chasing a unit directly, but it could potentially force an opponent to move in a different direction from the time warp which if used well, could produce a more favorable path for your zealot(s) to engage. I struggle with the idea that protoss units can't walk through forcefields (massive omitted), can't pass through a vortex, can take friendly damage from psi storm, but are able to ignore the effects of time warp.
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I apologize if this has been posted already, but I haven't had the time to read through the entire thread just yet.
1. Pulsar Beam - We all agree 20dps is too low. So how about it stacks with charges like a void ray, but it has unlimited amount of charges that all increase it's dps by a fixed amount on each tick of damage. Example: First 2 seconds while attacking on a building, it does 20dps, then each consecutive tick (2 seconds) it does 20 more (so 40, 60, 80..) It would require to really take down or chase away that Oracle, and it would make it formidable and a worthy investment.
2. Time Warp - While I think this ability has potential and it is well designed, why don't we expand it's use? It seems Blizzard already considers this but maybe in a wrong way. Why not allow it to slow down everything in that area? For instance, if cast on infested terran eggs, it would take them 50% more time to hatch. If cast on a forge, upgrades are 50% slowed, if casted on a building that is being constructed it will slow it down by 50%. And ofcourse if casted on units it slows them down just the same. Would this make it more interesting, like a reverse chrono boost that works on everything?
3. Revelation - I would really like the detection back ;(
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On October 25 2012 06:19 CikaZombi wrote:
3. Revelation - I would really like the detection back ;(
In my opinion it was kind of unfair to the Robo tech tree to give detection to a Stargate unit. That kind of ability overlap in tech trees also ruins the effectiveness of all cloaked units against Protoss.
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Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 05:59 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +Yea i like to ^^. Also emp already works on buildings if i am not wrong so don't see the problem with the oracles doing it also. So i don't get the complaint u got about your suggestion being bad game design. As far as i know the emp skill does not mention it works on building.
The point is, abilities in SC2 dont work differently on different units. They might have categorical modifiers, like "only works on buildings" or "does +10 damage to psionic" or "cannot effect massive". But there is no unit or spell in the game that has something like "only works on High Templars" or "does +10 vs. ravens." Given this, you could have a spell which drains energy from buildings, in which case its inherently useless against Zerg. Or you could have a spell which drains energy from everything. Which could actually be pretty versatile and powerful if balanced properly, especially if the Oracles absorbed the energy they drained to use for their own spells. But what you can't do is have a spell that drains energy from the nexus, orbital command, and queens, but nothing else. That would just be breaking fundamental design principles.
The idea i liked and presented the message u just quoted was to make it work on all energy bases units and not only queens.
I agree with you that it be weird if it only worked on buildings and queen. i also stated before that i am not sure abouth the queen being targetable and the ability we are talking about is 20 damage against build with the addition of doing 2 energy drain on the attack.
Second of all i actually dont get your argument on game design. did u know that consive shell doesnt not effect massive but everything else or that force field can only be broken by massive units and nothing else. How about guardian shield only decreasing ranged damage and not melee or phoenix can lift everything expect massive units.
I agree on it might be confusing to have it work on the queen only but not because of the reasons u stated.
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2. Time Warp - While I think this ability has potential and it is well designed, why don't we expand it's use? It seems Blizzard already considers this but maybe in a wrong way. Why not allow it to slow down everything in that area? For instance, if cast on infested terran eggs, it would take them 50% more time to hatch. If cast on a forge, upgrades are 50% slowed, if casted on a building that is being constructed it will slow it down by 50%. And ofcourse if casted on units it slows them down just the same. Would this make it more interesting, like a reverse chrono boost that works on everything?
Because, there is no way to counter that... You can move your units away from it, but you will have to cancel building and place it at different location so you don't have to wait for it to build 50% longer. And for upgrades, it is even worse. There would be some retarded timings with it, or delaying enemy timings by a lot.
Yes, Overseer can stop the production or research, but Overseer isn't an useful for anything else except scouting, and they pumped the Contaminate cost to 125 energy. There is no way that you would mass them without crippling yourself, while Oracle will actually be really useful unit after this, and isn't as slow as Overseer.
I really like both abilities, and Oracle is quite decent now, maybe they will need some number tweaking, but they are good design wise.
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Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part.
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On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part.
Haha that's actually a good point. If anything it should extend the life of temporary units 
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On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part.
because time can be warped in anyway the protoss desires
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On October 25 2012 06:40 AndreiDaGiant wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part. because time can be warped in anyway the protoss desires
Yuh huh, and protoss also get special lazer armor!!
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On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part.
they probably mean it relatively speaking, ie the temporary units get to do less because they don't move as much.
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On October 25 2012 06:43 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part. they probably mean it relatively speaking, ie the temporary units get to do less because they don't move as much.
No, they meant what they've said, they want it to speed up the lifespan of the spawned units.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:35 Crawdad wrote:
Why would the spell speed up the timed life of temporary units, when it's supposed to be slowing down time?
I don't get that part.
Infestor Broodlord Oracle OP in team games.
On a serious note, i guess it's to improve hallucination? Either way yeah it's a wierd statement.
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The oracle is still too expensive to justify it's cost. As long as it's 200 150 gas, I don't think we will see much of it.
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Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:51 happyness wrote:
The oracle is still too expensive to justify it's cost. As long as it's 200 gas, I don't think we will see much of it.
its 150 gas and 150 minerals
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Oracle
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Raven's cost 200 gas while at 2 supply.  units should be expensive. If the abilities don't justify the cost, I'd rather they buff the abilities than decrease the cost.
Edit: @Anomi I'm pretty sure that's wrong, but willing to be proven otherwise.
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On October 25 2012 06:50 Teoita wrote:
Infestor Broodlord Oracle OP in team games.
On a serious note, i guess it's to improve hallucination? Either way yeah it's a wierd statement.
Huh?
I think you're taking it to mean that the timed life gets slowed down, which would be the logical thing.
But the devs are proposing the exact opposite, which wouldn't make much sense.
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Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:53 SarcasmMonster wrote:Raven's cost 200 gas while at 2 supply. units should be expensive. If the abilities don't justify the cost, I'd rather they buff the abilities than decrease the cost. Edit: @Anomi I'm pretty sure that's wrong, but willing to be proven otherwise.
I gave u the link so you can check.
here is the balance update 2:
We have removed the oracle’s Preordain ability.
We have added a new area of effect ability for the oracle called Phase Shield.
Targeted friendly units are shielded from harmful effects for 5 seconds.
Fungal Growth, Corruption, Contaminate, Graviton Beam, Concussive Shells, Abduct, Revelation, Vortex, and 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
EMP – Phase Shield removes the anti-cloaking effect but not the damage dealt.
Neural Parasite – Phase Shield will not remove this effect but it will prevent units from being affected.
The energy upgrade has been removed.
Entomb’s duration has been reduced to 25 sec, but the health per Entomb has increased to 100.
The cost per unit has changed from 150/200 to 150/150.
Edite:For future reference don't say your pretty sure if u dont know. Ether u know or u don't and in this case u did not.
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Argh, I really wish they would give the Oracle some actual fighting ability. I mean, really...an only anti-structure attack that does almost nothing for the expense of the oracle, AND IT WASTES ENERGY. What were they thinking?
I didn't like entomb either, but at least it did SOMETHING to harass the enemy and make them worry. This new ability does practically nothing to worry the opponent.
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On October 25 2012 06:57 Anomi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 06:53 SarcasmMonster wrote:Raven's cost 200 gas while at 2 supply. units should be expensive. If the abilities don't justify the cost, I'd rather they buff the abilities than decrease the cost. Edit: @Anomi I'm pretty sure that's wrong, but willing to be proven otherwise. I gave u the link so you can chek. here is the balance update 2: We have removed the oracle’s Preordain ability. We have added a new area of effect ability for the oracle called Phase Shield. Targeted friendly units are shielded from harmful effects for 5 seconds. Fungal Growth, Corruption, Contaminate, Graviton Beam, Concussive Shells, Abduct, Revelation, Vortex, and 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected. EMP – Phase Shield removes the anti-cloaking effect but not the damage dealt. Neural Parasite – Phase Shield will not remove this effect but it will prevent units from being affected. The energy upgrade has been removed. Entomb’s duration has been reduced to 25 sec, but the health per Entomb has increased to 100. The cost per unit has changed from 150/200 to 150/150.
In that case I'm wrong.
Now I'm a bit dissapointed 100/200/2 Raven vs 150/150/3 Oracles... units should cost more  but are stronger.
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Sweden149 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:58 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 06:57 Anomi wrote:On October 25 2012 06:53 SarcasmMonster wrote:Raven's cost 200 gas while at 2 supply. units should be expensive. If the abilities don't justify the cost, I'd rather they buff the abilities than decrease the cost. Edit: @Anomi I'm pretty sure that's wrong, but willing to be proven otherwise. I gave u the link so you can chek. here is the balance update 2: We have removed the oracle’s Preordain ability. We have added a new area of effect ability for the oracle called Phase Shield. Targeted friendly units are shielded from harmful effects for 5 seconds. Fungal Growth, Corruption, Contaminate, Graviton Beam, Concussive Shells, Abduct, Revelation, Vortex, and 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected. EMP – Phase Shield removes the anti-cloaking effect but not the damage dealt. Neural Parasite – Phase Shield will not remove this effect but it will prevent units from being affected. The energy upgrade has been removed. Entomb’s duration has been reduced to 25 sec, but the health per Entomb has increased to 100. The cost per unit has changed from 150/200 to 150/150. In that case I'm wrong. Now I'm a bit dissapointed 100/200/2 Raven vs 150/150/3 Oracles... units should cost more but are stronger.
they might change the raven cost who knows. Oracle cost might even increase if its to strong. Numbers are never final.
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EPT
