EPTTvT - Mass reaper into standard marine/tank/medivac? Or New in HOTS?
TvZ - Mass reaper into battlehellion/marine/medivac
TvP - ???
The (HotS) Terran Help Me Thread Beta - Page 5
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MayZerG_UK
United Kingdom62 Posts
TvT - Mass reaper into standard marine/tank/medivac? Or New in HOTS? TvZ - Mass reaper into battlehellion/marine/medivac TvP - ??? | ||
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Sepi
Finland231 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:53 CapTanObviOs wrote: Does anyone know how to hold off the blink mothership core allin? I cant seem to hold it at all no matter what I try with 1 rax expand. I've tried building bunkers in the main and going 3 rax marauder after 1 rax FE. U need viking(s) to deny msc vision, because when u can force him to blink out you should have viking out if not earlier. Then keep it out of ledge range and macro up. Still so hard though. I have been crushed many times by msc blink rush also. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:53 CapTanObviOs wrote: Does anyone know how to hold off the blink mothership core allin? I cant seem to hold it at all no matter what I try with 1 rax expand. I've tried building bunkers in the main and going 3 rax marauder after 1 rax FE. http://www.twitch.tv/sdgrl/b/350635544 game starts at 9:20-9:30 i'm terrible, but its ez, just like in WOL. just requires some game sense/good decision | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
if you drop 8 marines in a mineral line and lings funnel into defend it (only attacking 1 marine at a time) with equal upgrades, adrenal glands res. and unlimited medivac energy (not that this would matter), it will take a full 10 seconds to kill this marine. at the old rate of medivac healing, it would have taken only 5.5-6 seconds 8 marines behind a mineral line will do 840 damage (zerg has +3 armor) over the course of those 10 seconds which is enough DPS to kill 24 3/3 adrenal gland zerglings or about 1 and a third of an ultralisk this is blizzard poking us to split up our units and attack everywhere, now that we have the tools to do it (despite fusion core req....) | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
The kind of effect which encourages splitting forces up is a very powerful non-stackable effect. A non-stackable, limited-radius area of effect defensive bonus, for example. A local force multiplier. Something that makes a small army very powerful, and able to fight against a much larger enemy force. The trick is to make a force multiplier that does not multiply a larger army's power as efficiently. Given a local force multiplier, the user wants to have small engagements. If both sides have them, both sides want smaller battles, but with slightly larger armies, or slightly better force multipliers present in those small battles. Given a tool like this, the total combat power of your army greatly increases if split into pieces, so you definitely should split your army up as opposed to using it all in one place inefficiently. And your opponent will obviously know this is optimal for you, and if they attempt to fight you with a single consolidated deathball, they will lose. They know this, so they split their forces up as well. Anyway, my point is that caduceus reactor is a powerful upgrade for late-game bio that is mandatory if you intend to go infantry in the late game. Now the fusion core requirement seems to me like a nod to use battlecruisers- and this may be especially relevant in TvP, except that Tempests now murder BCs. So Ravens are mandatory to keep the Tempests off your BCs. But this is another flavor of deathball- drops are not going to cut the mustard unless your opponent fails to deal with them, and caduceus really has no impact on this. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 26 2012 10:22 c0sm0naut wrote: http://www.twitch.tv/sdgrl/b/350635544 game starts at 9:20-9:30 i'm terrible, but its ez, just like in WOL. just requires some game sense/good decision It is easy depending on the strat you were going for. For sure dont do the previously adviced rushing to vikings, before you got enough vikings to kill the MsC before they can blink up you already got a major problem. If you are going MMM like you were it indeed shouldnt be a problem to hold off, more marauders means it is easier. If you wanted to go mech you are pretty much screwed. | ||
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Assaulter
Lithuania324 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:21 Sissors wrote: It is easy depending on the strat you were going for. For sure dont do the previously adviced rushing to vikings, before you got enough vikings to kill the MsC before they can blink up you already got a major problem. If you are going MMM like you were it indeed shouldnt be a problem to hold off, more marauders means it is easier. If you wanted to go mech you are pretty much screwed. I feel like with mech your best bet is to make widow mines across the perimeter, make sure they are positioned in a way so that he can't kill them from the low ground, but when he blinks up they are in range to hit him. And make tanks... make sure you pull a ton of scvs to repair the tank once it is out, and also to surround the stalkers so they can't all be shooting at the tank at the same time | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
 In all seriousness, it's probably not possible to hold a good execution of this if factory opening and not like, haard blind countered. I would use 111, tech lab On rax for conc, reactor on fact for hellions and medis/vikings. With the new detection ability for the mothership core, banshee are not reliable Hope this helps, if I play a game that goes this way I wI'll post. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On December 26 2012 21:12 Assaulter wrote: I feel like with mech your best bet is to make widow mines across the perimeter, make sure they are positioned in a way so that he can't kill them from the low ground, but when he blinks up they are in range to hit him. And make tanks... make sure you pull a ton of scvs to repair the tank once it is out, and also to surround the stalkers so they can't all be shooting at the tank at the same time You don't really have time for tanks against a strategy like this because they will be poking with the first few stalkers when Msc pops, the key is IMO: medics, concussive shells, hellions or marines and some repair scvs | ||
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Hiwashi
United States43 Posts
I am mostly looking for mech oriented openings, and 2 to 3 bases timing attacks. Could you guys upload some replays so I can study and practice? | ||
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Stingart
122 Posts
My build? A variation of Dragons (GM Player) TvP build. Its 1-1-1 and goes as follows: Note: Constant unit production when you are not building an addon is mandatory. Rax > 1 gass Factory > constant widow mine production 2 marines > reactor on rax > constant marine production Starport when you have the gass > constant medivac production @ 400 minerals > Expo @ 300 minerals > 2 Rax @ 150 minerals > Engin bay - Move out with 4-6 marines + widow mine. Rally everything to his ramp. - Now you will have little engagements all the time, the power comes from your micro. As soon as the medivac comes out you boost it to the rally point. Drop his main mineral line with 2-4 marines + a widow mine. while keeping pressure at the front. You go into full bio with an advantage because of early pressure and a full scout. It is important to react. If you see a lot of stalkers , you get 2 tech labs on your new rax and pump marauders. If you see stargate, get yourself a widow mine in your mineral line. Etc, use common sense, GM players use this build to defeat GM Protoss, the power comes from your own ability to micro your units correctly and react to your scout. | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
I usually go CC first but these faggot reapers give me an hard time now. Also i am the only one to think that TVT have became even more coinflip than PVP ? I mean it was already shitty to play but now... | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
What I think about HOTS : TVP : mine can be used in early game to prevent all ins. mid and end game mine is useless. I go 1 rax CC 2 gas facto and reactor on rax with 2 rines in bunker in front of my natural before reactor on rax. Tank siege. Depending on what I scout I go 3rd CC and 3 facto 1 starport midgame with thor helion banshee ghost. Scan @ 170 to add 2nd starport if colossus/tempest. In WOL i use to kill protoss with such a push but i sometimes use battlecruiser. In hots toss adds tempest so you can't use BC in TVP. Battlehelion is better than normal helion. units used: helion thor banshee viking ghost. TvT : I go fast marauder exp to prevent predictable reaper. Otherwise same play than in WOL. units used: marauder (only to prevent reaper) tank viking helion banshee thor BC TvZ : I go rax CC 2gaz factory helion banshee as in WOL trying to deny zerg's 3rd. After full upgraded thor and some vikings to kill viper. Push before hive. Once again, same play as in WOL. TvZ seems more unbalanced than in WOL cause if you go bio zerg will kill you with op fungal/glings/banelings/ultra and if you go mech zerg will kill you with viper roach/hydra. GL for TVZ in HOTS. units used : helion thor banshee viking. Fortunately HOTS beta is free. I don't plan to buy it because it's the same play than in WOL. "New" terran units are not good enough to be usefull in early/mid/endgame. Compositions are the same than in WOL, you have to deal with tempest and viper in lategame. Too much terrans units are useless : reaper : only in tvt, queens and stalker outrange it. tank : sucks against pretty much everything in P (speed zeal, blink stalk, immortal, colossus, phenix, archon...) and does too much splash damage to your own units. I don't use it in TVZ cause i never got disappointed with upgraded thor. BC : vs zerg = neural parasite, vs protoss = tempest/feedback widow mine : okay in early vs protoss, useless vs zerg as helion controls map better and banshee more efficient to kill roach all in. | ||
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Stingart
122 Posts
On December 28 2012 07:03 LloydPGM wrote: TVP : In hots toss adds tempest so you can't use BC in TVP. Did you know that PDD stops tempest missle? I've used it with a nice succes rate. On December 28 2012 07:03 LloydPGM wrote: TvZ :TvZ seems more unbalanced than in WOL cause if you go bio zerg will kill you with op fungal/glings/banelings/ultra . I find that bio works a lot better because of the fungel change. A ton of fungels now miss or just hit a small part. Not to disprove anything but you can play with the new units and changes. I really like Terran in HotS. Way more than in WoL. | ||
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Emporium
England162 Posts
I will have to get a replay, but what i have been doing is a 2,1 opening that puts pressure on and then teching behind it into whatever you want. So I think it's: 10depot 12rax 13gas 16rax( as soon as 100gas comes out) 17fact 18 techlab on 1st rax. 22reactor on fact 26 reactor on second rax. And then as soon as 4 Wm's come out just push out, if you have done this right you should have about 10marines at about 40supply and then just with good control you can deny alot with this. The WM's make the toss really hesitant to move anywhere because of the splash off of 4 wm's and so you can deny a natural or if he tries to snipe with mothership core the marines pick it off to fast for him to do so if you control well. And then behind this tech/mech into whatever you want. generally i just take an extra cc and double armory and go into full mech. My natural is late but that isn't an issue as we have denied/are denying his, so economically we aren't losing out. | ||
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
How do I win? Other than switching to zerg. | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
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ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:04 Duncaaaaaan wrote: Ok bronze terran here. I am going pure mech in all match ups and I just lose. I lose and lose because my opponent exploits my immobility and how I can't move out until I have a big army, so I'm outexpanded and getting dropped left and right. How do I win? Other than switching to zerg. try something more robust than mech if you're bronze. positioning wise I'm sure you won't be able to nail it right. do the standard marine tank (+ hellbats if you're against zealots or lings) and mix in better composition other than mech. | ||
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