EPTthor and new canon mode +hellbad vs brood lords
The (HotS) Terran Help Me Thread Beta - Page 6
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perser84
Germany399 Posts
thor and new canon mode +hellbad vs brood lords | ||
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ETisME
12764 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:04 Duncaaaaaan wrote: Ok bronze terran here. I am going pure mech in all match ups and I just lose. I lose and lose because my opponent exploits my immobility and how I can't move out until I have a big army, so I'm outexpanded and getting dropped left and right. How do I win? Other than switching to zerg. if you are bronze, better don't complain about balance because at your level, you are making way too many mistakes to know anything about balance. bronze is essentially about who makes less mistakes rather than who makes the right decisions | ||
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memcpy
United States459 Posts
On December 30 2012 09:47 perser84 wrote: how are your experience with thor and new canon mode +hellbad vs brood lords Zerg player here. I recently played a game where my opponent went thor heavy mech. It was one of those typical situations where I'm trying to stall for broodlords and I know that as soon as I get 5 or so out i can shut down his push because there are no vikings. Didn't happen. The new thor attack killed my broodlords quite fast and I lost the battle. I wouldn't say it hard countered my brood lords but it traded quite nicely. | ||
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GDI
United States69 Posts
Just started playing terran and it is hard as hell. Is it just me or is protoss insanely overpowered and tvt is an enigma of all-ins??? I feel like a complete newb in HOTS and I hate it. Is it even worth playing the beta? | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
So my question would immediatly be: what opening do people use against toss? One that survives oracles, DTs, 4 gate, blink all-ins, the MsC poke obviously, 3-gate robo all-in, etc, without being way behind when he has an expansion. And I am all for scouting if that helps, but then the question would be how do people scout the toss early in the game after stalkers are out? You can scan, but that is pretty much rolling the dice. And if you made too many units and he just FE'd there is no way to punish him due to photon overcharge. Back to your question, yes TvT is imo pretty much ruined in HotS. I am generally in favour of agression before 3 bases, but tvt is simply the new pvp. The only matchup that is still good is imo TvZ. Maybe balance wise not yet perfect, but at least not an all-in fest. So yes imo TvT and TvP are way better fun/spectator-wise in WoL than in HotS. | ||
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VonComet
Slovenia26 Posts
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minimalistic
Hungary157 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On December 30 2012 20:43 GDI wrote: high master random WOL here Just started playing terran and it is hard as hell. Is it just me or is protoss insanely overpowered and tvt is an enigma of all-ins??? I feel like a complete newb in HOTS and I hate it. Is it even worth playing the beta? the new changes have broken the laws of TvT and it's beauty it has lead to unexcuseable amounts of faggotry and gimmickry making cc first even more of a coinflip than it was already (against proxy raxes or proxy marauders) because now they dont have to proxy you to get a build order win TvT used to be so beautiful T.T | ||
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VonComet
Slovenia26 Posts
You still have plenty of viable openings only diffirence to before is more of them include reapers and less of them include marines. Banshees, tanks, hellions all of that is still perfectly viable just in diffirent ways than wol, adapt! | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
On December 31 2012 03:50 VonComet wrote: Reapers didn't break tvt at all its still a fantastic matchup and i'm absolutely loving using reapers in tvz. All this reaper whine is gonna achieve is getting the reapers nerfed into obscurity again. You still have plenty of viable openings only diffirence to before is more of them include reapers and less of them include marines. Banshees, tanks, hellions all of that is still perfectly viable just in diffirent ways than wol, adapt! Come on, reaper is perfectly useless in TvZ exactly like in WOL as queen outranges it. Pretty much the same in TvP as stalker/MSC arrives faster than reaper. I play a lot of TvT and my opponent ALWAYS builds at least 1 reaper, if you're not prepared for it you die, so you can't really go gasless fast exp. The only way i found to not start with reaper is going... rax gas tech lab marauder... Anyway, I remember DK saying that any unit unused in at least 2 matchup may not have a place in the game... Reaper is perfectly useless vs P and Z, so as Battlecruiser. | ||
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NoBanMeAgain
United States194 Posts
On December 30 2012 20:43 GDI wrote: high master random WOL here Just started playing terran and it is hard as hell. Is it just me or is protoss insanely overpowered and tvt is an enigma of all-ins??? I feel like a complete newb in HOTS and I hate it. Is it even worth playing the beta? Yes TvT is all about who has the better all in, and protoss is op lol | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 31 2012 04:09 LloydPGM wrote: Come on, reaper is perfectly useless in TvZ exactly like in WOL as queen outranges it. Pretty much the same in TvP as stalker/MSC arrives faster than reaper. I play a lot of TvT and my opponent ALWAYS builds at least 1 reaper, if you're not prepared for it you die, so you can really go gasless fast exp. The only way i found to not start with reaper is going... rax gas tech lab marauder... Anyway, I remember DK saying that any unit unused in at least 2 matchup may not have a place in the game... Reaper is perfectly useless vs P and Z, so as Battlecruiser. They should have made them more than a gimmicky early game unit (in WoL I already use it sometimes in TvT and TvP vs forge FEs), and what they changed was making it a required early game unit in TvT while not making it any better in late game (even worse). | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
Ok, seriously, what did I do wrong? he fails his all in horribly doing absolutely no damage other than a bit of lost mining time. He's down in workers. He loses his third and is down in bases. Upgrades are even. I just don't understand at all what I was supposed to have done differently. | ||
Insane
United States4991 Posts
On January 01 2013 16:05 Lazerlike42 wrote: http://drop.sc/289767 Ok, seriously, what did I do wrong? he fails his all in horribly doing absolutely no damage other than a bit of lost mining time. He's down in workers. He loses his third and is down in bases. Upgrades are even. I just don't understand at all what I was supposed to have done differently. General observation: I'd say you should get 2 geysers rather than 1 in your opening, as you don't have enough gas to both use your ebay and the tech lab, and the slight excess of minerals doesn't really help you with anything at that point. In the specific battle at 15 minutes in his 3rd where you (basically) lost the game, you should've fought further back from the ramp by a bit in order to get an advantage from the ramp. As it was, the location where you fought allowed him to forcefield you from the low ground and have all his ranged units (stalkers/sentries mostly) shooting you. If you had backed up a bit, his ranged units would've had to crowd onto the ramp to get to you. Basically you can't win engagements when you don't have an upgrade advantage and then get forcefielded such that all his units can hit yours straight up (especially the zealots), which is what happened to you here. After taking such heavy losses there, there wasn't much you could do to hold the game. Being trapped is generally bad though for that sort of army, as you rely upon hit & run & hit & run to win the fights. Generally speaking you should also be focusing a lot more heavily on upgrades, but that said he also didn't upgrade enough so that wasn't the cause of the loss. HOTS-specific and it's relatively new, but in my experience you should be getting caduceus relatively early, like around when you're taking your 3rd. It wouldn't have kicked in by that battle I suppose, but it makes a tremendous difference and you should at least be working towards it. Pretty much every game I've played TvP that goes long, Protoss whines about how OP Caduceus is! Basically with Caduceus your units do not die, except by storm or colossus  | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
I understand that mass marine would do the trick but with no upgrades and no rax production makes that significantly more difficult | ||
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
On January 02 2013 11:21 Lazerlike42 wrote: What is the best way to handle 2 base Colossus production? When the Protoss starts Colossus before starting his third, it puts me in a position where I need to essentially start Viking production before having any medivacs out with a standard gasless FE build. I haven't had an issue getting out 2 Medivacs before I need to start Viking production against any sort of normal Protoss opening involving 2 base Colossus (usually the first Colossus is coming out around when I'd be reaching his base with my bio + medivacs) - maybe you're starting your Factory late? You can have Medivacs out by like 9 minutes. The only replay I have of you was admittedly after holding an all-in so your build may have been different, but in that one you didn't even start your Starport until 11 minutes in. You can add a 2nd Starport if you see him going early Colossus, as he won't be able to effectively also get Storm, and having a sufficient number of Vikings will allow you to crush his Colossi without taking any real losses, and your stim / combat shields / medivac infantry will annihilate his Zealot/Stalker/Sentry army after that. | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
On January 02 2013 11:43 Insane wrote: I haven't had an issue getting out 2 Medivacs before I need to start Viking production against any sort of normal Protoss opening involving 2 base Colossus (usually the first Colossus is coming out around when I'd be reaching his base with my bio + medivacs) - maybe you're starting your Factory late? You can have Medivacs out by like 9 minutes. The only replay I have of you was admittedly after holding an all-in so your build may have been different, but in that one you didn't even start your Starport until 11 minutes in. You can add a 2nd Starport if you see him going early Colossus, as he won't be able to effectively also get Storm, and having a sufficient number of Vikings will allow you to crush his Colossi without taking any real losses, and your stim / combat shields / medivac infantry will annihilate his Zealot/Stalker/Sentry army after that. I can normally get two out, but having only two medivacs and then having to ignore them to start building up Vikings seems to be an enormous sacrifice that is hard to really ever recover from. Eventually it will be possible to support two starports and mix produce both, but my concern is that you cannot not right away, and your medivac count will always been significantly lower than had you been able to produce more in the first place. In fact, when most of the high level games I've ever seen produce only vikings from those two Starports once they get them for Colossus. | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
Come on, reaper is perfectly useless in TvZ exactly like in WOL as queen outranges it. Pretty much the same in TvP as stalker/MSC arrives faster than reaper. I play a lot of TvT and my opponent ALWAYS builds at least 1 reaper, if you're not prepared for it you die, so you can't really go gasless fast exp. The only way i found to not start with reaper is going... rax gas tech lab marauder... Anyway, I remember DK saying that any unit unused in at least 2 matchup may not have a place in the game... Reaper is perfectly useless vs P and Z, so as Battlecruiser. diamond terran here. Since i stabilize my BO which is 3 rax mass reaper 1 fac into expand i win 80-85% of my games vs Z and before 20 min due to my reapers. So i would'nt say so fast that reaper is useless vs Zerg. I think u didnt seriously play them because harassing back and forth and regen u can kill queen really easy and when u got upgrade u can harass places where there is no spine. The only deadline is when ur opponent is popping enough roach then u stop ur harass and build marauders. But u deal so much econ dommage as u force early roach/queens/spines and even spore if u pop WM in backup of ur reapers. You can expand reasonnably even if u going 3 rax because reaper don't cost that much mineral but this strat is very micro intensive and very fun to play. I still think that at pro level 3 rax reaper is much harder to use because zerg do less mistake i guess. But it's very good as soon as your opponent opened hatch first pool no gas. | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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