EPTOn February 13 2013 13:50 SHODAN wrote:
how do you deal with lategame sky toss with a mech composition?
how do you deal with lategame sky toss with a mech composition?
Thor, viking, raven, bc, widow mine. (few widow mines and bc's)
The (HotS) Terran Help Me Thread Beta - Page 11
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HTOMario
United States439 Posts
Thor, viking, raven, bc, widow mine. (few widow mines and bc's) | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On February 23 2013 05:08 HTOMario wrote: Thor, viking, raven, bc, widow mine. (few widow mines and bc's) I want to see you doing this in a replay,but I think there is bigger issue and its callen not "Sky Toss".I mean the "Tempest/Carrier/HT" combo is impossible to beat for me.I tried some combos in the Unit Tester and thats what I got: BC die easy to Tempest/Carriers. They even move them 360º trying to kill Interceptors. Thors. The same as BC. Dont suffer the "bonus to massive" from Tempest,but the new AA ability is too slow and the javelin one tries to kill the Interceptors... Raven is Ok.Deploy PDDs and you deny Tempest,BUT Interceptors crush PDD quick and HTs Feedback it... Ghosts cant even reach the Ps army because of the Tempest/Carrier Widow Mines.. 5 Range is totally useless.Have you ever faced Protoss without any obs?? I try snipe them,but they got 2-3 and are messed between Carriers and Tempest and its impossible to kill them. Vikings are the HOPE. You need insane number of them but they are outranged of 1)Carriers (10 Leash reange) and 2)Tempest 15!!!! Their 9 range put them in the exact spot HTs need them.The cast of the Storm is 9 range,but the splash affects till 11. I tried this: Sieged tanks are supposed to not allow HTs get in range to storm anything,but Tempest force Vikings to place between Tanks and them allowing the HTs to storm without exposing to Siege Fire.At the same time the Tempest can shoot the tanks. Here I see big Issue for T to stop this and cant find the solution. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On February 23 2013 08:35 Dvriel wrote: I want to see you doing this in a replay,but I think there is bigger issue and its callen not "Sky Toss".I mean the "Tempest/Carrier/HT" combo is impossible to beat for me.I tried some combos in the Unit Tester and thats what I got: BC die easy to Tempest/Carriers. They even move them 360º trying to kill Interceptors. Thors. The same as BC. Dont suffer the "bonus to massive" from Tempest,but the new AA ability is too slow and the javelin one tries to kill the Interceptors... Raven is Ok.Deploy PDDs and you deny Tempest,BUT Interceptors crush PDD quick and HTs Feedback it... Ghosts cant even reach the Ps army because of the Tempest/Carrier Widow Mines.. 5 Range is totally useless.Have you ever faced Protoss without any obs?? I try snipe them,but they got 2-3 and are messed between Carriers and Tempest and its impossible to kill them. Vikings are the HOPE. You need insane number of them but they are outranged of 1)Carriers (10 Leash reange) and 2)Tempest 15!!!! Their 9 range put them in the exact spot HTs need them.The cast of the Storm is 9 range,but the splash affects till 11. I tried this: Sieged tanks are supposed to not allow HTs get in range to storm anything,but Tempest force Vikings to place between Tanks and them allowing the HTs to storm without exposing to Siege Fire.At the same time the Tempest can shoot the tanks. Here I see big Issue for T to stop this and cant find the solution. 1) Scan -> clear Observers -> snipe/emp Templars -> engage 2) Viking/Raven/BC + Ghosts somewhat stand a chance... 3) Just kill them the second you see 2/3 stargate chronoboosting out air. There is no way Protoss is going to hold 2 or even fast 3 base 170-200 push with Hellbats/Thors/Tanks, Vikings/Raven + SCVs for repair... This worked for me so far. You can't play their game. They will eventually win, because they get off so many free shots. Your Raven energy will eventualy drain, or they will land storm, or you will lose units one by one, while he is going to kite forever with Tempests. edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Interceptors drain PDD energy. Also, what are you doing with your BC's moving 360º around? You are supposed to fly in, yamato the shit out of everything and just win. Also, I don't think in those insane lata-game battles, leashing range matters at all. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On February 23 2013 08:49 Everlong wrote: 1) Scan -> clear Observers -> snipe/emp Templars -> engage 2) Viking/Raven/BC + Ghosts somewhat stand a chance... 3) Just kill them the second you see 2/3 stargate chronoboosting out air. There is no way Protoss is going to hold 2 or even fast 3 base 170-200 push with Hellbats/Thors/Tanks, Vikings/Raven + SCVs for repair... This worked for me so far. You can't play their game. They will eventually win, because they get off so many free shots. Your Raven energy will eventualy drain, or they will land storm, or you will lose units one by one, while he is going to kite forever with Tempests. edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Interceptors drain PDD energy. Also, what are you doing with your BC's moving 360º around? You are supposed to fly in, yamato the shit out of everything and just win. Also, I don't think in those insane lata-game battles, leashing range matters at all. 1) How can you clear 3 Observers with 9 Range Vikings in the mass of 10 Carriers and 10 TEmpest? Same for HTs..They are too well protected,believe me. 2)Viking/RAven/BC+Ghosts got no chance vs mass Carriers/Tempest/HTs. They feedback the PDD and Ravens,ghosts cant reach to EMP,Observers doesnt die and Vikings alone vs Interceptors+Tempest shots are joke. 3)LoL.So now I just got to play 2 base all in with SCVs to repair? I need the 3rd to max and they are free to grab the 4th and even 5th unpunished. I never use BCs.Such a expensive unit for only one Yamato shot?No,thanks. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On February 23 2013 09:21 Dvriel wrote: 1) How can you clear 3 Observers with 9 Range Vikings in the mass of 10 Carriers and 10 TEmpest? Same for HTs..They are too well protected,believe me. 2)Viking/RAven/BC+Ghosts got no chance vs mass Carriers/Tempest/HTs. They feedback the PDD and Ravens,ghosts cant reach to EMP,Observers doesnt die and Vikings alone vs Interceptors+Tempest shots are joke. 3)LoL.So now I just got to play 2 base all in with SCVs to repair? I need the 3rd to max and they are free to grab the 4th and even 5th unpunished. I never use BCs.Such a expensive unit for only one Yamato shot?No,thanks. Well, you clearly are very set in your opinions and you like to theorycraft a lot, so I will not argue with you. As Mario stated, you need some mix of BC's, Vikings, Ravens, Thors and possibly Mines and Ghosts and micro all those units correctly (you don't get BC's to do 360º flowers). You might disagree and cry forever how impossible it is to beat mass Protoss air. But at least show some respect for players that are consistenly beating gm Protoss players with mech and don't just argument with "in unit tester, this is how it goes...". Thank you. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
I am too frustrated with the situation and would be thankfull if you can provide me some links or replays of the Terrans in Master/GM beating Protoss with mech.I am trying to find them,but for now unsuccessfull. I think I am respectfull to any players in any league trying to beat their P opponents playing mech and only use the unit tester to try find some solutions.I got lot of TvP games playing Mech.Sometimes I win,but usually is always before P got his Air deathball.Just by myself cant find the answer to Carrier/Tempest/HT.IF there is any VOD,just let me know. | ||
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Riverdragon0
United States11 Posts
If the bunker is far forward at the choke, he can go all the way around and attack your mineral line from the flank path, plus your bunker is incredibly far away from workers if you need to pull them to repair. If the bunker is sort of in the middle of the big area, in line with the ramp, he can skirt around the bunker towards the flank path taking little damage and constantly poke your mineral line. If the bunker is right next to your CC he can poke your main wall-off for free depot kills. Am I over-looking something? Am I the only person who thinks this map is broken? | ||
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13JackaL
United States577 Posts
I mean without mech. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 23 2013 17:36 13JackaL wrote: Hey can someone tell me how to fight against the ridiculous new ultralisk? I just played one of my best macro games going marine-tank but the maxed engagements were always super lopsided for his 8-10 ultras + vipers I mean without mech. Marine/Tank is not an appropriate answer against ultras with plating. You need to focus on marauder production more than anything, unless you have upwards of ten tanks. Even then, the threat of vipers mean you still need vikings in your marine tank composition, since vipers are guaranteed to land cloud before they are killed. Also, while i agree with most of HTOMario's responses to sky protoss, i feel that mines are not the best choice against it. For them to be effective, mines have to be in close proximity to deal damage, which exposes it to storms. Since any good sky toss comp is always accompanied with storms, having mines would just be dead weight in my opinion. My response in this case is to use that supply to make more vikings instead, which is the bread and butter vs skytoss. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 23 2013 17:43 Novacute wrote: Marine/Tank is not an appropriate answer against ultras with plating. You need to focus on marauder production more than anything, unless you have upwards of ten tanks. Even then, the threat of vipers mean you still need vikings in your marine tank composition, since vipers are guaranteed to land cloud before they are killed. Also, while i agree with most of HTOMario's responses to sky protoss, i feel that mines are not the best choice against it. For them to be effective, mines have to be in close proximity to deal damage, which exposes it to storms. Since any good sky toss comp is always accompanied with storms, having mines would just be dead weight in my opinion. My response in this case is to use that supply to make more vikings instead, which is the bread and butter vs skytoss. You need more marauders than marines. But you still need marines to kill the zerglings. You'll also want some tanks so he can't just make a ton of banelings and run you over. The key is effective splitting. You want slightly split marauders up front and all your marines behind. Try to kill him before he transitions to bls and kills you. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 10 2013 13:54 never_Nal wrote: IS there any way to beat protoss after 17-20 mins mark if neither players harasses? I just played a very long game, had 19 barracks 3 starports making ravens and 1 making viking medivac, but still never won , I emp his stuff before hand, use seekier missles on his collos/stalker, still zealots and archons get the best out of me, even if they dont have any aoe, to me waprgate late game is too strong, and cant find a way around it :/ Why are you making ravens? If you're gonna sit there vs protoss, of course you're gonna get run over. When using bio, terran's goal is always to kill protoss before he gets both colossus and storm. In late game, you want to make some planetary for defense. But it's really as simple as trying to kill all the colo with viking and emp all the ghosts. Yes it's incredibly hard. | ||
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TRpredator
Russian Federation101 Posts
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On February 23 2013 18:17 TRpredator wrote: How to deal with mech in TvT? I prefer to go for bio mech so that i can zone areas to defend and use bio for counter attacks however right now hellbats are a lot more tanky so mech player can easily push though siedge line as result i lose my positioning(especially in midgame since my tank count is relativly compared to his. So what would be a good way to play against mech with bio tank composition? You just CANT!!! Mech >> Marine+Tank >> Pure BIO. Thatas why nobody plays BIO in TvT and now in HotS its only Mech | ||
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ShiiQ
Germany31 Posts
On February 24 2013 00:22 Dvriel wrote: You just CANT!!! Mech >> Marine+Tank >> Pure BIO. Thatas why nobody plays BIO in TvT and now in HotS its only Mech You should watch GSTL pre-season. Bio Mech is still viable in TvT. You need to work with surrounds etc. It's harder then mech but if you like Bio Mech more you need to practice surrounding and positioning. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 24 2013 10:15 ShiiQ wrote: You should watch GSTL pre-season. Bio Mech is still viable in TvT. You need to work with surrounds etc. It's harder then mech but if you like Bio Mech more you need to practice surrounding and positioning. It's been more possible since hellbat upgrade has been introduced. Hellbat timings are not deadly early game anymore. It's still more difficult than wol but I think it's viable. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
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KenZo-
Faroe Islands190 Posts
I guess it takes a lot of practice to be able to do it properly.. My problem is early game - And then again in the late game I struggle.. It might only be that I enjoy and am better at Bio than Mech, but Yesterday I decided to go bio first and ended with a 11/4 record, Then I switched to Mech TvP.. and was 12/14 by the end of the day ^^ :S I would love to get it working but I'm not sure I can take another 10 losses in a row :D | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On February 25 2013 21:52 KenZo- wrote: I got inspired to try out HTOMario's mech style, since I saw some of his replays... BUT I'm quite terrible at it.. ^^ I guess it takes a lot of practice to be able to do it properly.. My problem is early game - And then again in the late game I struggle.. It might only be that I enjoy and am better at Bio than Mech, but Yesterday I decided to go bio first and ended with a 11/4 record, Then I switched to Mech TvP.. and was 12/14 by the end of the day ^^ :S I would love to get it working but I'm not sure I can take another 10 losses in a row :D Playing mech TvP you need completely different mind set. I'm actually surprised you went 12/14, most people used to play bio go like 5/10 and then rage that mech is bad.. There are just so many different things you need to take care off. It's a lot about possition, engagement, upgrades, timings, scouting. You are doing well. | ||
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ShiiQ
Germany31 Posts
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TRpredator
Russian Federation101 Posts
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