EPTI really wish TL could sync with peoples SC2 accounts so all of the platinum and lower players can be immediately discredited for not knowing any better. People linking the TLO vs WhiteRa game, just look at the timer on the game when WhiteRa's 4 gate finally hits. The timing is way off.
PvP 4 Gate Counter - Page 4
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Arch00
United States233 Posts
I really wish TL could sync with peoples SC2 accounts so all of the platinum and lower players can be immediately discredited for not knowing any better. People linking the TLO vs WhiteRa game, just look at the timer on the game when WhiteRa's 4 gate finally hits. The timing is way off. | ||
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trNimitz
204 Posts
There are builds which work vs 4 gate, you just have to actually really give a damn and play a couple games figuring it out. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:05 Skyro wrote: Economical 4-Gate is the best counter to 4-Gate on maps where they can warp in from areas other than your ramp (DQ) or maps with wide ramps (Scrap). It is also IMO the easiest way to handle it on all maps. IMO chronoing units out of 3 Gates ways works best since it transitions into tech easier and allows you to put on early pressure before warpgate tech is done so you can both confirm if they are doing 4-Gate or not and to delay their proxy pylon probe if they are in fact doing it. There are a lot of variations of 3-Gate so you have to experiment to see what works best in what situations. Generally on larger maps if I suspect 4-Gate and I see no initial zealot from them I get 3 early stalkers which I use to confirm the 4-Gate and delay their proxy pylon probe + escort, which will usually only be 1 zealot and 1 stalker. If they push me back by warping in their first round of units at their base that's when I warp in a sentry or 2 at mine and then make an arc of sentries at the top of my ramp which will blast any warping in zealots they try to make with no casualities w/ some minor micro. Once you hold this first round of warp-ins at your ramp you can pretty much just overwhelm them. My 2 gate robo immortal zealot opening holds 4 gate regardless of the choke. I don't use forcefields. If you work out timings, you can defend an optimal 4 gate in creative ways. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
What do you have at 6:30? I'm guessing maybe 5 zealots max a stalker and an immortal? Not to mention, since you're not making any sentries, he is just going to walk right in your base with 5 zealots so his stalkers are free to focus fire your immortal. I'll work on this build with some friends of mine some more (4gate vs 1 gaterobo) and see what comes out. I'll have them do the 13gate13gas as you're saying and only go 1 gas, no sentries. As far as the FE builds against 4 gate. It just aint happenin bud. I don't care what level your opponent was. You got lucky and he didn't scout well enough, or he didn't do an agressive 4 gate. If you disagree with what I have just said, please, please, post the replay of your FE on xel'naga. | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
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LanTAs
United States1091 Posts
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:20 LanTAs wrote: i like doing a one or two gate robo, and usualy when you scout it you're in a bit of trouble. all you really need to do with your robotics is sit long enough in your base, get colosus, then push out, you should be able to kill him, but then its quite risky too. right now thats the only thing i do versus 4gate and it works decently. I think we all know what to do with a robo. it is the defense of the 4 gate when you go robo tech that is in question. and replays would be very nice. But please, only of someone hitting you with a 6 min 4 gate. Nothing else. | ||
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palanq
United States761 Posts
On February 05 2011 14:09 kcdc wrote: Against a top level all-in 4 gate, your options are to (1) 4 gate with a few more probes, (2) 3 gate with a lot of sentries and PERFECT control, or (3) 2 gate robo off of 1 gas for zealot immortal. I have a build order that works with option 3, but a lot of people will tell you that it's not possible. Either way, the easiest most secure option is to 4 gate yourself. I like (1). if you 4gate with more probes (and/or a second gas vs. a 1-gas 4gate) then you can eventually outproduce your opponent, and break out or contain for the advantage, which has been working pretty well for me lately. I'm less certain about (2) or (3). Even if you can hold vs. an all-in 4gate (i.e. with cut probes and chrono all on warpgates) I'd think these would generally be at a disadvantage against a more economic 4gate? Is this the case? edit: by "be at a disadvantage" I mean they can just contain/expo vs. all those sentries or your 2gate robo and win later on. | ||
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
(picking off pylons or the scout probe) | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
Here is a replay of me doing 4gate vs 2 gate robo with 2 gas (2700 masters). When I play vs a 3 gate robo I will show you but I feel that that is even worse. 4gate vs 2gate robo Now, as for the 1 gate 1 gas robo, I haven't played against that, but I still have a hard time imagining it doing any better against a 2 gas robo considering you don't even have sentries to split the army. But, I haven't played it yet so I couldn't tell you. I will try and have someone do that for me today, and see how it goes. | ||
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gertg
Belgium35 Posts
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
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hi im new
Germany150 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:57 Arch00 wrote: If a Protoss players 4gate is being countered by anything other than another better executed 4gate then he isn't 4gating correctly. All of these strategies besides adelscott's bank on forcefielding your ramp which is made irrelevant by the bug where you can warp in a zealot at the top of the ramp for vision/warping that has been posted about. I really wish TL could sync with peoples SC2 accounts so all of the platinum and lower players can be immediately discredited for not knowing any better. People linking the TLO vs WhiteRa game, just look at the timer on the game when WhiteRa's 4 gate finally hits. The timing is way off. 1200 gold, www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171264 5z8s rush... "I really wish TL could sync with peoples SC2 accounts so all of the platinum and lower players can be immediately discredited for not knowing any better" - now you are trolling and cutting down on lowbies. | ||
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[Eternal]Phoenix
United States333 Posts
On February 05 2011 14:09 kcdc wrote: Against a top level all-in 4 gate, your options are to (1) 4 gate with a few more probes, (2) 3 gate with a lot of sentries and PERFECT control, or (3) 2 gate robo off of 1 gas for zealot immortal. I have a build order that works with option 3, but a lot of people will tell you that it's not possible. Either way, the easiest most secure option is to 4 gate yourself. I would never even do option 2. However, you CAN do an aggressive 3 gate stalker and try to intercept their push before it has its first warpin round. If you can manage to throw off tempo you win the game almost for sure. Option 3 of course is the best, but you actually have to be on top of your scouting cause zealots and immortals don't shoot up without the zealot pyramid stacking upgrade, and I've never seen anyone be able to get that one yet. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:07 Acridice wrote: For those of you who want replays.... Here is a replay of me doing 4gate vs 2 gate robo with 2 gas (2700 masters). When I play vs a 3 gate robo I will show you but I feel that that is even worse. 4gate vs 2gate robo Now, as for the 1 gate 1 gas robo, I haven't played against that, but I still have a hard time imagining it doing any better against a 2 gas robo considering you don't even have sentries to split the army. But, I haven't played it yet so I couldn't tell you. I will try and have someone do that for me today, and see how it goes. 2 gate and 3 gate will even out at around 8-10 mins, your right about 2g being better then 3g, your timing attack comes a lot sooner, and you are more prepared for the 6min mark. 2 versions of a 2gate robo, you can put the second gate down before or after the robo, if it is placed after the robo it is equivalent to a 1g robo, only you don't chrono boost your cyber. It is equivalent to the pvt 2g robo build, you can put your gate down at 13 supply, go zealot - stalker - sentry, and then put down 2 more gates as your robo completes and kick up to a 4 warpgate with your timing push. = 3-4z 2sentry 2stalker 1immortal at about 6-6:20, 3g robo is delayed on the timing push, and that is ultimately why people feel they need to fall back on FF. if you 2g your immortal comes out and you can kill your opponents proxy pylon. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
So let's see he has 4z 2 sentry 2s and 1 immortal vs my 6 Stalker, 5 zealots. Then after an exchange, he is only warping in 2 units at a time where as I'm warping in 4 units at a time. I really don't think a 2 gas build with any kind of robo tech is gonna cut it. We'll see about the 1 gas 1 gate robo. And btw, I uploaded a 4gate vs 1gate robo on pg 3, and that failed as well.. And btw, I don't think there is anything wrong with discrediting the "lowbies." Don't you think there is a reason you play at that level? | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On February 05 2011 14:29 Skillz_Man wrote: Eeh, not really. I used to love doing 3 gate pheonix and just holding my ramp and harassing, but once you play good people they can get an expo up very quickly while you really cant if they camp you ramp. 3 gate double gas robo can work, just going sentry, stalker and immortal. Then following a 3 collosis with range push... But surviving the initial 4 gate is very difficult, usually I feel like it was my opponent at fault. Ofcourse a 4 gate to counter works too, but you really dont have many options. Also a DT rush with 2 early sentry can work, but thats a toss up Check the replays of the TL Teamspeak, WhiteRa v TLO on Xel Naga Caverns + Show Spoiler + TLO decimates WhiteRa's 4 gate with a stargate opening, using graviton beam to lift up enemy stalkers to be shot down by his own stalkers then gains total map control from the phoenixs | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 07 2011 04:07 Durp wrote: Check the replays of the TL Teamspeak, WhiteRa v TLO on Xel Naga Caverns + Show Spoiler + TLO decimates WhiteRa's 4 gate with a stargate opening, using graviton beam to lift up enemy stalkers to be shot down by his own stalkers then gains total map control from the phoenixs No one 4gates on European servers. It's a different meta game over there. | ||
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Erudite
8 Posts
Gate Robo Gate fends off a 4 Gate. Platinum level game, plenty room for improvement on both sides. I've never 4 Gated, so I don't know how well he did exactly, but for my part, I had one fail force field, my Immortals shot Zealots almost exclusively, and I didn't bother to micro my Stalkers, who got ripped up by Zealots. Basically, I choked. Still, I managed to fend off the attack, expand and poke back at him, winning the game. | ||
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