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PvP 4 Gate Counter - Page 2
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
Liquipedia page: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Adel's_No_Gas_PvP | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:11 tarath wrote: On many maps the adel scott build (2-gate out 4 zealots + 2 follow up stalkers that arrive before WG finishes then transition into an early expo, early tech, or a 4-gate works very well in my experience (high diamond but I've beaten plenty of low masters players with it). i'm curious about that too because i've read alot of players swear by the adel scott build but i haven't seen it at all in recent tournament play. | ||
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PikaXchU
Singapore379 Posts
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tarath
United States377 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:15 mufin wrote: i'm curious about that too because i've read alot of players swear by the adel scott build but i haven't seen it at all in recent tournament play. Yeah I've often wondered why we don't see it more in tournaments, maybe at the highest levels of play it stops working for some reason? idk. I'm not that good obviously but at my level its very effective and PvP is by far my best matchup. If anything I think a pro could really execute well and make it far more effective as I often have trouble microing my attack force while also deciding on (good decision making about your transition is key) and executing an appropriate transition at home. | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:17 PikaXchU wrote: 3 Gate Robo actually works(People who claim it doesn't obviously never tried it before/didn't control well enough). You just need to remember to FF the ramp long enough until you get your immortals out. DO NOT EVER CUT PROBES. i've heard both sides and right now i'm noticing a shift away from robo play towards 4 gate in tournament games. have any recent pro replays supporting your argument that i could check out? | ||
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
Whitera played five or six pvp matches in the most recent TLopen. | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
Don't be greedy at the start :no 14 gate or so, always 12 gate, only two chronoboosts on probes, cut probes to get 2 additional gates up at 24 supply, dont get too fast a second geyser. | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:21 mufin wrote: i've heard both sides and right now i'm noticing a shift away from robo play towards 4 gate in tournament games. have any recent pro replays supporting your argument that i could check out? 4 gating was popular like 2-3 weeks ago. Now people have figured how to deal with it. Blink play and air play are also really strong, robo play is not seen as often as in GSL1 for example. | ||
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LsPhizix
23 Posts
assimilator at 19/20, 3 zealots out by the time your core finishes, two stalkers immediately follow up with wg, push up the ramp with zealots 10 seconds before stalkers get there. if hes 4gating he probably has 1 zealot or 1 stalker almost done, use your zealots by making them go straight for the probe line, if not making his entire line attack your three zealots. use backup stalkers to do known damage ie focus low probes, take out pylons. if there is only 1 pylon powering the core and wg is not done yet, use all units to focus this down; in this case its gg for having halted his production if you do a lot of damage to mineral lines, you should have boosted out two more stalkers while it was happening and built an expo/forge/gateway, building 1-2 cannons at expo. after expo is up i usually like to throw down a starport and a robo bay plus my two new gas, and build based on what i see. if i see a lot of immortal zealot ill make 2-3 pheonix for grave beam on immortals, if i see robo bay i go straight to voids with their plus damage. remember stopping a 4 gate usually means you are pretty far ahead | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
 ). Holy shit though, that video reminded me why i hate HD so much (and husky not to mention). They really must appeal to 12 year olds or something, cuz i honestly muted it half way through and enjoyed the game more. Oh well, back to being an elitist fuck with nothing to back it up... | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
If you cant do good enough FFs you have to 4 gate yourself. If your FFs are *PERFECT* it doesnt matter what you do because you will stop the 4 gate and be ahead. | ||
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ClasH
Germany143 Posts
On February 05 2011 19:34 Tsabo wrote: you can beat 4 gate with perfect/close to perfect FFs thats all there is to it. If you cant do good enough FFs you have to 4 gate yourself. If your FFs are *PERFECT* it doesnt matter what you do because you will stop the 4 gate and be ahead. Nah, you wont stop with perfect FF couz if there is a pylon at the beginning of your choke he can warp in units above your ff. There was also a thread about it. You need 2 ff to stop this. | ||
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Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:06 Monta wrote: The problem is he can just sit below your ramp and tech/expand freely. Once warpgate tech comes in, he will be the one in the dark. Containing a cannoned ramp in general is not a good idea, for all you know he may never need to push out. | ||
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Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:15 mufin wrote: i'm curious about that too because i've read alot of players swear by the adel scott build but i haven't seen it at all in recent tournament play. The 5z8s build is becoming more popular at higher level play, it counters the 4 warpgate very well and is slightly better then the adelscott. Adel - counters 4 warpgate and relies on attacking with 4z2s. 5z8s - you have 3z2s out when adel-build opponent attacks, and 2 more units on the way. you will hold off, and the counter attack is very hard to stop with adel. | ||
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xciLe
Norway213 Posts
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TheGiftedApe
United States1243 Posts
3chrono on probes 1 gate twilight council, build a sentry(try to hide council so it looks like you are 4gating) 2nd gas, Warp tech(1-2 chrono on warp tech to keep up with 4gate)2 more gates+DT shrine another sentry+zealots from this point only build zealots, you should also build 1-2 proxy pylons around the map so you can make dts near his base while you FF your ramp. 4gate will show up at ~6:15-6:30 so you have to hold for ~1 minute continue producing zealots constantly, a 3rd sentry will probably be needed split his forces in half on your ramp with FF and let zealots fight, you should have more zealots than a regular 4gater, and in the close combat stuck on a ramp you will win the fight at your base easily. Just in time to warp in 2 dt's and run them into your ememies mineral line, and at that points its gg, dts can kill robo faster than it can be built, and once he runs probes you will out produce him. If you mess up the FF's you can warp one of the dts at home and one at his base and you should still be fine. | ||
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headies
United States63 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: I think people need to take the DT build seriously, it is a hard counter to 4gate if you do it just right. 3chrono on probes 1 gate twilight council, build a sentry(try to hide council so it looks like you are 4gating) 2nd gas, Warp tech(1-2 chrono on warp tech to keep up with 4gate)2 more gates+DT shrine another sentry+zealots from this point only build zealots, you should also build 1-2 proxy pylons around the map so you can make dts near his base while you FF your ramp. 4gate will show up at ~6:15-6:30 so you have to hold for ~1 minute continue producing zealots constantly, a 3rd sentry will probably be needed split his forces in half on your ramp with FF and let zealots fight, you should have more zealots than a regular 4gater, and in the close combat stuck on a ramp you will win the fight at your base easily. Just in time to warp in 2 dt's and run them into your ememies mineral line, and at that points its gg, dts can kill robo faster than it can be built, and once he runs probes you will out produce him. Wait, what? If you build a sentry before stalker is out to kill probe it's basically telling the opponent "hey I'm not 4 gating." At that point it is as easy to go robo and you'll most certainly win because robo hardcounters DT. Also you're forgetting about warp in on top of your ramp. its ez pz lemon squeezy to just warp in 4 zealots when you gain vision and have the stalkers on the bottom go to town. DT will not work against a 4 gate executed properly. Not only that but how do you afford all that gas heavy stuff if you're building 2 or 3 sentries? | ||
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TheGiftedApe
United States1243 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:24 headies wrote: Wait, what? If you build a sentry before stalker is out to kill probe it's basically telling the opponent "hey I'm not 4 gating." At that point it is as easy to go robo and you'll most certainly win because robo hardcounters DT. Also you're forgetting about warp in on top of your ramp. its ez pz lemon squeezy to just warp in 4 zealots when you gain vision and have the stalkers on the bottom go to town. DT will not work against a 4 gate executed properly. Not only that but how do you afford all that gas heavy stuff if you're building 2 or 3 sentries? I find it easy to kill scouting probe with a sentry and 2-3 probes. With early second gas it very easy to afford all the gas try it(no stalkers = extra gas)...Not to mention dont let him build pylon next to your base its simple you should have 3-4 zealots to counter the pylon building probe.....If somehow they get a pylon up, FF at the bottom of the ramp and they wont get any vision.,,, you just have to hold on for a minute as soon as the dt's pop its over. protip: use scouting probe to build pylons right in their base, forces them to respond and buys you time for dt's to pop. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On February 05 2011 16:58 mufin wrote: i agree, but 2 dts (one in his base, one in yours), can immediately win you the game if you can survive his 4 gate long enough. i've also seen players delay a 4 warp gate with early zealot pressure, cannon pressure or anything else that doesn't take gas. but in the end, i feel it isn't a very stable approach to the matchup. the harder, more consistent way to counter 4 gate (in my opinion) is 3 gate blink stalker. Well micro'd blink stalkers > all gateway units. especially since it makes forcefields obsolete. check out this PvP between TLO and White-Ra if you need a better picture. I couldn't find the reddit guy that casted the game so you'll have to deal with HD :p. The match u linked is in no way supporting ur statement! White-Ra screwed up his early agression and proxy/ramp pylon placement and timing. If his zealots had finished warping in it would have been gg for TLO. 4 gate vs 3 gate blink is almost always a BO win for the 4gater. more units earlier. simple as that. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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