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On February 08 2011 08:03 bowyert wrote:
whenever i try to hold off a super all in 4 gate by ffing the ramp, they just warp one zealot over my ff and then 3 more at the top of my ramp.. can anyone post a replay or screenshot demonstrating where exactly you need to forcefield so they can't do this.
They can always do that.
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On February 08 2011 07:58 Acridice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2011 07:47 gardis wrote:3 Gate Robo hold it with an attack ~5:50 make sure u get > zealot > stalker > sentry > sentry and 1 gate robo is crap  thats never works So many fools on this forum. Read more than the OP man. Seriously, it's ridiculous. I'm about to give up on this forum. As tastesless says... "Reading the forums gives me brain cancer" Here is a replay of me holding a 6min 4 gate with 1 gate 1 gas robo. It's the sentry robo builds that don't hold it. And if you would like, I will play you and show you me stomp your robo build. 1Gate Robo vs 4 gate
i already saw ur replay and it doesnt work vs a 4 gate gas allin.
and dont call me fool. if dont believe it go and search a 3 gate robo build which holds 4 Gate.
just need forcefields to buy time.
even if he warpin on top u still can hold it.
and no thanks i dont wanna play u
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On February 08 2011 08:16 gardis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2011 07:58 Acridice wrote:On February 08 2011 07:47 gardis wrote:3 Gate Robo hold it with an attack ~5:50 make sure u get > zealot > stalker > sentry > sentry and 1 gate robo is crap thats never works So many fools on this forum. Read more than the OP man. Seriously, it's ridiculous. I'm about to give up on this forum. As tastesless says... "Reading the forums gives me brain cancer" Here is a replay of me holding a 6min 4 gate with 1 gate 1 gas robo. It's the sentry robo builds that don't hold it. And if you would like, I will play you and show you me stomp your robo build. 1Gate Robo vs 4 gate i already saw ur replay and it doesnt work vs a 4 gate gas allin. and dont call me fool. if dont believe it go and search a 3 gate robo build which holds 4 Gate. just need forcefields to buy time. even if he warpin on top u still can hold it. and no thanks i dont wanna play u
Pallleeassse... then what was his 4 gate then? It came at 6 min and cut at 20 probes. Honestly... are u referring to a k4g or somethin? I mean come on. Doesn't the replay prove that it works?
Not to mention the build I did was submitted by a 3k Master toss, and I am 2.7k master... what're you?
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I just read 6 pages of crap, please don't comment if you are not high master's league. If you do, please try and be humble and understand that there is a huge difference between a Diamond level 4gate and a Masters league 4gate. I am not trying to be insulting, but it is hard to filter out legitimate discussion from the baseless claims that have been made here. That sort of thing dilutes the arguments being made, and it is disrespectful to the OP who is trying to get solid advice.
Having someone ladder blindly a thousand times a day and learn from trial and error is the same as giving them an itinerary of your trial and error in progress.
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On February 08 2011 08:24 tehemperorer wrote:
I just read 6 pages of crap, please don't comment if you are not high master's league. If you do, please try and be humble and understand that there is a huge difference between a Diamond level 4gate and a Masters league 4gate. I am not trying to be insulting, but it is hard to filter out legitimate discussion from the baseless claims that have been made here. That sort of thing dilutes the arguments being made, and it is disrespectful to the OP who is trying to get solid advice.
Having someone ladder blindly a thousand times a day and learn from trial and error is the same as giving them an itinerary of your trial and error in progress.
Well put, I find myself here frustratedly trying to moderate this one thread. I am very interested in this topic, and it really irritates me when people just make empty statements on this thread.
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alright well I guess we are just a bunch of ass holes passing through your chapel of gosu. Do you follow the pro scene? Have you really never seen a pvp that didn't end in just 4g vs 4g all ins? If there was no real counter to it but 4gates then that is all that anyone would ever do. I understand you are frustrated by losing to it. Heck we all lose to it sometimes. But instead of going off on everyone who says 3gate robo, why not actually go back and watch past mlg vods and pro replays? The only map where this strategy is 100% absolutely the best build is scrap station. On every other map with a small ramp you can see just about everything.
I think just last week TLO beat white-ra with a 3gate blink tech build against white-ra's 4gate close positions metal
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On February 08 2011 13:56 Alejandrisha wrote:
alright well I guess we are just a bunch of ass holes passing through your chapel of gosu. Do you follow the pro scene? Have you really never seen a pvp that didn't end in just 4g vs 4g all ins? If there was no real counter to it but 4gates then that is all that anyone would ever do. I understand you are frustrated by losing to it. Heck we all lose to it sometimes. But instead of going off on everyone who says 3gate robo, why not actually go back and watch past mlg vods and pro replays? The only map where this strategy is 100% absolutely the best build is scrap station. On every other map with a small ramp you can see just about everything.
I think just last week TLO beat white-ra with a 3gate blink tech build against white-ra's 4gate close positions metal
I aggree to some extend with the first paragraph but then...again the White-Ra vs TLO match...not a good example at all, since it was not a properly executed 4gate against a straight blink build. please do not throw in references to pro games in order to support ur argument until u r sure what happened in those games and when u do, why not post a link to them (for this particular game klick here).ty.
edit: link added
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On February 08 2011 13:56 Alejandrisha wrote:
alright well I guess we are just a bunch of ass holes passing through your chapel of gosu. Do you follow the pro scene? Have you really never seen a pvp that didn't end in just 4g vs 4g all ins? If there was no real counter to it but 4gates then that is all that anyone would ever do. I understand you are frustrated by losing to it. Heck we all lose to it sometimes. But instead of going off on everyone who says 3gate robo, why not actually go back and watch past mlg vods and pro replays? The only map where this strategy is 100% absolutely the best build is scrap station. On every other map with a small ramp you can see just about everything.
I think just last week TLO beat white-ra with a 3gate blink tech build against white-ra's 4gate close positions metal
When did I ever say that there was no real counter to it? When did I ever complain about losing to it. Not too mention, I linked a counter to it by going gate robo gate on one gas. I am however saying that any kind of 2 gas with sentries robo build will not beat it because the sentries are essentially null and void when I warp in above your ramp
I'm saying that I have a problem with people claiming that 2 gas robo builds beat it, yet I have seen no replay to justify such, and I have never been beat by a 2 gas robo build when I 4gate at the masters level.
And as far as the pro games go... It's all about them feelin eachother out. If they show that they're not 4 gating, the other person reacts by either 4 gating or not 4 gating. More often than not he reacts by not 4 gating, and the game proceeds normally. And, once again, there are counters to the 4gate, but I don't believe a 2 gas robo build is one. And btw, ramp size has nothing to do with it.
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man by the way you talk with such universal resolve and certainty i would never guess you were a low to mid masters player
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On February 08 2011 08:24 tehemperorer wrote:
I just read 6 pages of crap, please don't comment if you are not high master's league. If you do, please try and be humble and understand that there is a huge difference between a Diamond level 4gate and a Masters league 4gate. I am not trying to be insulting, but it is hard to filter out legitimate discussion from the baseless claims that have been made here. That sort of thing dilutes the arguments being made, and it is disrespectful to the OP who is trying to get solid advice.
Having someone ladder blindly a thousand times a day and learn from trial and error is the same as giving them an itinerary of your trial and error in progress.
You are totally right. I am a 2500 diamond and I am BAD. Everyone in diamond is bad too. I also hate wading through 6 pages of garbage including silver/gold level replays of a bad 3gate into late robo and the other guy is "fast expanding" at this time. Just ridiculous.
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I've been using a K4G variant where you don't cut gas and build one stalker before warpgate is done, putting your 3rd pylon close to the opponent and the fourth at their ramp after warping in 4 more stalkers (for a total of 5).
You can then warp zealots and a stalker up their ramp. I haven't lost in the few ( <10) games I've done with it, except one where I botched the build, but I'm only diamond. Most games were against 4 gate, some they had a robo.
Does anyone have masters level replays of dealing with such a build?
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Acridice,
I want to thank you for using this weird concept called "logic", even though it seems in short supply. I don't think you have made any baseless claims. You back up your statements with videos and you ask that those who disagree do the same. I am sure you are very frustrated by the bullshit quotient, but I am interested in this topic and I am using you as a filter to help me navigate it (I am a mere platinum player so I need help from my betters).
So thank you. And please carry on.
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Wow some of you guys are harsh. Sure it's clear some people here haven't really faced a truely well-timed 4-gate but how long does it take you to "wade" through 6 pgs of replies, 2 mins? It isn't hard to tell who does and doesn't know what they are talking about.
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best way i believe is to either 4gate yourself when you start to spot it or to go 3gate robo and get a fast sentry out til you can get your immo out
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On February 09 2011 04:06 Skyro wrote:
Wow some of you guys are harsh. Sure it's clear some people here haven't really faced a truely well-timed 4-gate but how long does it take you to "wade" through 6 pgs of replies, 2 mins? It isn't hard to tell who does and doesn't know what they are talking about.
Yeah it does seem harsh, and just reading the posts aren't that bad, but there are those people who, like me, downloaded the replays in the attempt to see some legitimate counters and ended up getting frustrated at spending my time watching something like a poorly executed 4-gate missing its window and being rolled by some random build.
KCDC I really like that post
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On February 09 2011 05:34 SFGhoax wrote:
best way i believe is to either 4gate yourself when you start to spot it or to go 3gate robo and get a fast sentry out til you can get your immo out
Dude, I really wish people would read more than just the OP, otherwise you would keep your mouth shut (fingers still).
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i've been giving kcdc's build a shot, and having mixed results with it.
few points
-even if you keep a probe in their base until a stalker pops, they can still hide their tech route, suiciding a probe can work, but if it turns out they are going for voids or quick expanding, this build leaves you in kind of an awkward situation
-this can definitely stop a 4 gate, but i feel it is a bit awkward to open with, if they aren't going 4 gate, or, they go stargate tech, 2 phoenix shuts this down
-like in my first point, this build has a bit of a tough time adapting to stargate tech or quick expands that are scouted late. you can go for quick colossi, but if they are going stargate, 2 voids cause a ton of problems.
still trying to toy with this, but it seems like if you chose to expand instead of go to a colossus allin, they can just nail your expo if they aren't expanding
these are mostly against people who delay their tech route, against 4 gaters this works out fine.
my 0.02$
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im a masters league P. ive nearly made it viable in masters league to 3 gate forge and then go phoenix +1 and harass probes after 3 phoenix. the problem is if you mess up ever so slightly and get zealots on your ramp its over, but FFs + outranging cannons is really cost effective defense wise and most Ps when they see your cannon really commit hard to finishing you off with a 4 gate. after their 4 gate kind of fails, the cannon forces obs for fear of DT (which blindly leads to immortal production) and phoenix owns immortal.
the key is, perfect forge timing, +1 and tech. the problem is transitions out of it havent been worked out just yet + volatility around the viability of holding ur ramp.
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EPT
