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On February 07 2011 04:23 Erudite wrote:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134176-1v1-protoss-metalopolisGate Robo Gate fends off a 4 Gate. Platinum level game, plenty room for improvement on both sides. I've never 4 Gated, so I don't know how well he did exactly, but for my part, I had one fail force field, my Immortals shot Zealots almost exclusively, and I didn't bother to micro my Stalkers, who got ripped up by Zealots. Basically, I choked. Still, I managed to fend off the attack, expand and poke back at him, winning the game.
Ahhh... this is what I'm talking about... THIS is not a proper 4gate. For all of you who think that a 4gate is just putting down 4 gates and attacking, then watch my replay
4gate vs 2gate robo4gate vs 2gate robo
and learn what a real PvP 4 gate is. He Didn't boost his cyber once. His first round of warp ins were 4 zealots at the 6:30 mark, not to mention he built his 3rd pylon before gates. The real 4 gate: cyber is boosted all the way through with the first round of warp ins coming at ~5:50 which is a round of stalkers, then a pylon at the ramp and a round of 4 zealots in their base.
So... if you defend THAT 4gate with robo tech, please upload. Otherwise refrain from doing so.
On a side note, I think we are all aware of these possibilities to beat a 4gate: econ 4 gate, adelscott in close positions, and the 5z8s rush. With the 5z8s rush though, IMO it loses to tech, but I'm still testing that theory.
And btw, I have uploaded 2 replays so far of 2700 masters 4gate stomping on robo builds. i have yet to see a replay of a robo build fending off a properly executed 4 gate... just sayinnn....
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On February 05 2011 14:46 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 14:37 mufin wrote:
dts, if you can force field your ramp long enough till they pop. DTs can only get out after 6.5 minutes... they would have to be terrible for that to work.
6.5 mins are when most four gates happen... interesting
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On February 07 2011 04:43 Ageless wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 14:46 Sleight wrote:On February 05 2011 14:37 mufin wrote:
dts, if you can force field your ramp long enough till they pop. DTs can only get out after 6.5 minutes... they would have to be terrible for that to work. 6.5 mins are when most four gates happen... interesting
I've actualy played a friend of mine experimenting with dt build against 4gate. The fastest he could get it out was when my 3rd wave of warp-in's hit his base. It's too risky and not worth it. The best case scenario is that you end up with a base trade. As soon as I saw dt's, i warped in zealots (on hold) at my main, blocked my ramp buitl a forge, and got ready to wall off if need be.
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On February 07 2011 04:10 Acridice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 04:07 Durp wrote:On February 05 2011 14:29 Skillz_Man wrote:On February 05 2011 14:16 Parra wrote:
I believe a 3 gate starport can easily defend a 4gate as well Eeh, not really. I used to love doing 3 gate pheonix and just holding my ramp and harassing, but once you play good people they can get an expo up very quickly while you really cant if they camp you ramp. 3 gate double gas robo can work, just going sentry, stalker and immortal. Then following a 3 collosis with range push... But surviving the initial 4 gate is very difficult, usually I feel like it was my opponent at fault. Ofcourse a 4 gate to counter works too, but you really dont have many options. Also a DT rush with 2 early sentry can work, but thats a toss up Check the replays of the TL Teamspeak, WhiteRa v TLO on Xel Naga Caverns + Show Spoiler +TLO decimates WhiteRa's 4 gate with a stargate opening, using graviton beam to lift up enemy stalkers to be shot down by his own stalkers then gains total map control from the phoenixs No one 4gates on European servers. It's a different meta game over there.
...what is it with these TLO vs White-Ra games in this thread? White-Ra wasn't (!!!) 4 gating but actually dropping a quick twilight council for blink stalkers. But see for urself(the phoenix thing is still amazing): TLO vs White-Ra TL SC2 Open 11 finals
oh and 4 gating in PvP is most common on EU servers, it's just that TLO has a very unique style of playing any of the 3 races.
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On February 07 2011 04:30 Acridice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 04:23 Erudite wrote:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134176-1v1-protoss-metalopolisGate Robo Gate fends off a 4 Gate. Platinum level game, plenty room for improvement on both sides. I've never 4 Gated, so I don't know how well he did exactly, but for my part, I had one fail force field, my Immortals shot Zealots almost exclusively, and I didn't bother to micro my Stalkers, who got ripped up by Zealots. Basically, I choked. Still, I managed to fend off the attack, expand and poke back at him, winning the game. Ahhh... this is what I'm talking about... THIS is not a proper 4gate. For all of you who think that a 4gate is just putting down 4 gates and attacking, then watch my replay 4gate vs 2gate robo4gate vs 2gate robo and learn what a real PvP 4 gate is. He Didn't boost his cyber once. His first round of warp ins were 4 zealots at the 6:30 mark, not to mention he built his 3rd pylon before gates. The real 4 gate: cyber is boosted all the way through with the first round of warp ins coming at ~5:50 which is a round of stalkers, then a pylon at the ramp and a round of 4 zealots in their base. So... if you defend THAT 4gate with robo tech, please upload. Otherwise refrain from doing so. On a side note, I think we are all aware of these possibilities to beat a 4gate: econ 4 gate, adelscott in close positions, and the 5z8s rush. With the 5z8s rush though, IMO it loses to tech, but I'm still testing that theory. And btw, I have uploaded 2 replays so far of 2700 masters 4gate stomping on robo builds. i have yet to see a replay of a robo build fending off a properly executed 4 gate... just sayinnn....
thank you for clearing alot of things up and thanks for the replay.
one question though, have you experimented with blink stalkers against 4 gate? i saw the tlo vs white-ra game but they both did some wacky stuff before they attacked and by that time tlo had blink. if you have a replay of a straight 4 gate against a straight blink stalker build i would like to look at the timings.
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Props KCDC, you the man. I've done your 1 gate 1 gas 1 robo build against a friend of mine about 5/6 times. here is a replay with very little mistakes on either side.
I know I've been advocating that any robo build loses to 4gate. And I still think that any 2 gas robo build loses to 4gate, but this build is awesome. It held it off everytime I did not make huge micro mistakes.
Here is the replay: You guys should really watch this.
1gate robo vs 4gate WIN!
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straight up blink stalkers gets mutilated by a good 4 gate. The thing is that the effect of blink won't really we that big untill you have more stalkers and a 4 gate hits when you have about 6 stalkers max.
Also it is impossible to get blink out in time as it is actually quite expensive and a long tech. Even if you do get it out he can just send his zealots after your probes and there will be no way your blink stalkers can help out.
Blink stalkers are a great strat that does well against everything that is not 4 gate. Against very slow versions of the 4 gate it can work but it's still quite hard.
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On February 07 2011 06:04 Acridice wrote:Props KCDC, you the man. I've done your 1 gate 1 gas 1 robo build against a friend of mine about 5/6 times. here is a replay with very little mistakes on either side. I know I've been advocating that any robo build loses to 4gate. And I still think that any 2 gas robo build loses to 4gate, but this build is awesome. It held it off everytime I did not make huge micro mistakes. Here is the replay: You guys should really watch this. 1gate robo vs 4gate WIN!
Hm, I watched that replay and I really don't buy it. If he had just waited for his round of zealot warpins to attack (waiting only about 10 seconds if he hadn't gotten supply blocked) he would have had 5 zealot 6 stalker vs your 5 zealot 1 stalker 1 immortal, which wins easily.
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he hardly did anything wrong there. He executed that 4gate pretty much exactly as it should go. When he pushed up, the only thing he lost was a zealot, then he warped in 4 zealots. If you would like to try a 4 gate against this build, I'm open anytime. I stuffed the 4 gate 4 times out of 5, and I guarantee I stuff yours. Acridice.147.
Please... play me, I would like to play some other players to test it out more.
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Whst i like to do is go 3gate robo with zealot, sentry, inmortal with not much stalkers but do include some, also good FFs help you a lot plus with good micro you cna beat the pushand just eventually kill him, and if you scout the push dont expand:D
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On February 07 2011 07:14 TemplarCo. wrote:
Whst i like to do is go 3gate robo with zealot, sentry, inmortal with not much stalkers but do include some, also good FFs help you a lot plus with good micro you cna beat the pushand just eventually kill him, and if you scout the push dont expand:D
What level of play do you do this at? I still don't think 3 gate robo will hold it. Don't just chime in and say somethin with no proof, when people have already claimed this with no replay yet I have shown replays of me beating it. try also reading some of the thread atleast rather than just the OP.
And btw, if you go 3 gate robo, I guarantee you, that you will not have an immortal out when my push comes at 6 min...
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I want to see an upload of 3 gate robo winning vs a 6 min 4 gate.
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On February 07 2011 06:04 Acridice wrote:Props KCDC, you the man. I've done your 1 gate 1 gas 1 robo build against a friend of mine about 5/6 times. here is a replay with very little mistakes on either side. I know I've been advocating that any robo build loses to 4gate. And I still think that any 2 gas robo build loses to 4gate, but this build is awesome. It held it off everytime I did not make huge micro mistakes. Here is the replay: You guys should really watch this. 1gate robo vs 4gate WIN!
Glad you've learned! I used to use 2 gas gate robo gate and I was able to decimate 4 gates until people learned how to warpin past forcefields. If they can fix that "bug" then 2 gas will be safe, but for now if you make a sentry you're going to probably lose.
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10gate early stalker pressure builds can beat it by hitting them while they are still trying to get their warpgates up.
2gate or 3gate robo can hold it with good sentry usage and cb's on sentries.
if you find you don't have the ability to pull these methods off I suggest you just 4gate yourself.
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On February 08 2011 03:01 Alejandrisha wrote:
10gate early stalker pressure builds can beat it by hitting them while they are still trying to get their warpgates up.
2gate or 3gate robo can hold it with good sentry usage and cb's on sentries.
if you find you don't have the ability to pull these methods off I suggest you just 4gate yourself.
Did u read anything but the OP?
I've heard several claims that 2/3 gate robo with sentries can hold it. I haven't seen one replay of this. I however have provided replays in this thread of me stomping on 2/3 gate robos at 2700 Masters lvl. Please just don't make empty statements especially without reading most if not all of the thread. If you haven't noticed there is generally progression in a thread, and not just OP / answer.
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3 Gate Robo hold it with an attack ~5:50
make sure u get > zealot > stalker > sentry > sentry
and 1 gate robo is crap  thats never works
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On February 08 2011 07:47 gardis wrote:3 Gate Robo hold it with an attack ~5:50 make sure u get > zealot > stalker > sentry > sentry and 1 gate robo is crap thats never works
So many fools on this forum. Read more than the OP man. Seriously, it's ridiculous. I'm about to give up on this forum. As tastesless says... "Reading the forums gives me brain cancer"
Here is a replay of me holding a 6min 4 gate with 1 gate 1 gas robo. It's the sentry robo builds that don't hold it. And if you would like, I will play you and show you me stomp your robo build.
1Gate Robo vs 4 gate
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I've always thought you need 4gates to counter 4gate. However, lately, I've been facing a 3gate robo build as well where they get zealot/sentry/immortal. If they constantly FF the ramp, they should be able to hold it.
I won all my PvPs on the ladder this early year (somehow =x) but when I jumped on the ladder yesterday, that build completely blew my mind. I'm something like 1-5 vs that build since yesterday. ><"
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On February 08 2011 07:58 K3Nyy wrote:
I've always thought you need 4gates to counter 4gate. However, lately, I've been facing a 3gate robo build as well where they get zealot/sentry/immortal. If they constantly FF the ramp, they should be able to hold it.
I won all my PvPs on the ladder this early year (somehow =x) but when I jumped on the ladder yesterday, that build completely blew my mind. I'm something like 1-5 vs that build since yesterday. ><"
What build? A 3 gate robo? Why not post a replay...
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whenever i try to hold off a super all in 4 gate by ffing the ramp, they just warp one zealot over my ff and then 3 more at the top of my ramp.. can anyone post a replay or screenshot demonstrating where exactly you need to forcefield so they can't do this.
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EPT
