EPTdepends very much on the map tho... if he's able to pin you down completely he can still win by expanding, altho the expo will come late, but urs will come even later then, wont it...
PvP 4 Gate Counter - Page 3
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unsaid
45 Posts
depends very much on the map tho... if he's able to pin you down completely he can still win by expanding, altho the expo will come late, but urs will come even later then, wont it... | ||
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headies
United States63 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:27 TheGiftedApe wrote: I find it easy to kill scouting probe with a sentry and 2-3 probes. With early second gas it very easy to afford all the gas try it(no stalkers = extra gas)...Not to mention dont let him build pylon next to your base its simple you should have 3-4 zealots to counter the pylon building probe.....If somehow they get a pylon up, FF at the bottom of the ramp and they wont get any vision.,,, you just have to hold on for a minute as soon as the dt's pop its over. protip: use scouting probe to build pylons right in their base, forces them to respond and buys you time for dt's to pop. lol, please don't give anyone "protips" because you clearly are not understanding PvP basics. If you build a sentry before stalker it is a CLEAR sign that you're not 4 gating. I myself would much rather play standard than 4 gate and if I saw this I would immediately throw down a robo. How, pray tell, are you going to afford to build anything if you're building pylons in their base? Not only that, but a smart player isn't going to be fooled when they see a sentry and then proxy pylons in their base. I would probably be like "wtf this guy is clueless." Not only that, but it is clearly easy to tell what they are spending chrono on. If you're not k4g and you're building proxy pylons in my base I'm just going to wait for my stalker and zealot to kill the pylons. DT rush will not work against perfectly executed 4 gate. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
Yes you need to FF perfectly, or close to perfectly, but if yo udo you are almost guaranteed a win. And about those warp in base pylons, generally players will throw them down too early, so it's easy to snip, but if they throw it down as they push up the ramp. FF about 3 units into your base, kite and kill, then snipe the pylon. You should be able to not cut probes, keep up constant gate production as well as make immortals The crucial thing here is to NEVER supply block yourself. I've lost too many times where I needed a sentry but got supply blocked. Also, with your defending army, always have at least 2 zealots, and 2 sentries. Everything else should be stalkers and immortals. Eventually he will retreat or just lose his whole army. At that point you should be able to chrono an obs out, throw down an expo. At this point you are free to harass on closer position maps, and use the obs to snipe high ground things and or bait and FF off the army. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:41 mizU wrote: 3 gate robo is probably the best defense. Yes you need to FF perfectly, or close to perfectly, but if yo udo you are almost guaranteed a win. And about those warp in base pylons, generally players will throw them down too early, so it's easy to snip, but if they throw it down as they push up the ramp. FF about 3 units into your base, kite and kill, then snipe the pylon. You should be able to not cut probes, keep up constant gate production as well as make immortals The crucial thing here is to NEVER supply block yourself. I've lost too many times where I needed a sentry but got supply blocked. Also, with your defending army, always have at least 2 zealots, and 2 sentries. Everything else should be stalkers and immortals. Eventually he will retreat or just lose his whole army. At that point you should be able to chrono an obs out, throw down an expo. At this point you are free to harass on closer position maps, and use the obs to snipe high ground things and or bait and FF off the army. I'm sorry, but even with 3 gate robo, especially with no probe cuts, you're not going to counter a well executed 4 gate. I Bust any robo build all the time. At the 6 min mark when i push up your ramp and start my pylon, even when you kill the 1 zealot i had up your ramp, as soon as my pylon is finished I warp in 4 zealots, try and snipe your sentries and then just brute force in. You can't assume that "players will throw down ramp pylons too early" that's just dumb. Most people at the upper level will do it right, and you won't even be able to build an immortal because you're going to be too busy trying to warp in as many units as u can to fend off the attack. IF you want to try some kind of 3 gate robo, it has to be a delayed robo and you're going to have to chrono units out of your gates to trake map control. | ||
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Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:51 Acridice wrote: I'm sorry, but even with 3 gate robo, especially with no probe cuts, you're not going to counter a well executed 4 gate. I Bust any robo build all the time. At the 6 min mark when i push up your ramp and start my pylon, even when you kill the 1 zealot i had up your ramp, as soon as my pylon is finished I warp in 4 zealots, try and snipe your sentries and then just brute force in. You can't assume that "players will throw down ramp pylons too early" that's just dumb. Most people at the upper level will do it right, and you won't even be able to build an immortal because you're going to be too busy trying to warp in as many units as u can to fend off the attack. IF you want to try some kind of 3 gate robo, it has to be a delayed robo and you're going to have to chrono units out of your gates to trake map control. Multiple builds can counter a 4g, until you can provide a 'well executed 4gate' replay, then be a little more open minded. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:27 Rhythm.102 wrote: Multiple builds can counter a 4g, until you can provide a 'well executed 4gate' replay, then be a little more open minded. I didn't think a replay was necessary for such a well known fact. But okay bud... will do. Now tell me what league / level do you play at? and be honest? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 05 2011 14:52 Dakota wrote: Mind posting that build? Would love to try it out. 9 pylon 13 gate 13 gas 15 pylon core @ 100% gate zealot @100 minerals stalker @ 100% core (you'll have to chrono the end of the zealot to sync it up) robo ASAP when you can deny scouting (chrono the stalker out and start the robo out of the probe's vision if it stays in your base to be hunted down by your stalker. you need an immortal by 6 minutes and there aren't many seconds to spare) pylon robo @ 100% stalker (see above regarding timing) zealot @ 100 minerals 2nd gateway pylon immortal zealot @100% warpgate research, 2 more zealots and another immortal It's basically 1-gas gate, robo, gate, but you'll find you need to gas on 13 to get your immortal out on time. Against a hard 4 gate with probe cutting, you'll want to cut some probes as well to get your stuff out a little earlier. | ||
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Volka
Argentina411 Posts
The idea is to expand really fast, like against Terran, and do 3WG +Cannon (on cliff better) to survive with a +1W coming quickly. It won't work against 4gate all-ins (like 10 gate), but it MIGHT work against 12gate (push around 6.30ish).I've been failing at the Cannon timing so far. If you manage to hold it off, then you're in an advantage. If opponent sees Cannon, we may be tempted to expand which will be awesome in PvPs... | ||
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Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:52 Acridice wrote: I didn't think a replay was necessary for such a well known fact. But okay bud... will do. Now tell me what league / level do you play at? and be honest? ~400 point silver. If you would like to demonstrate your well executed 4g, vs a 3g robo then lets play a couple games. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:16 Rhythm.102 wrote: ~400 point silver. If you would like to demonstrate your well executed 4g, vs a 3g robo then lets play a couple games. Okay, I arrest my case then... When you get masters then you are allowed to contribute input to this thread. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:13 Volka wrote: I've fooling around with 1 Gate FE with the aid of a Cannons. The idea is to expand really fast, like against Terran, and do 3WG +Cannon (on cliff better) to survive with a +1W coming quickly. It won't work against 4gate all-ins (like 10 gate), but it MIGHT work against 12gate (push around 6.30ish).I've been failing at the Cannon timing so far. If you manage to hold it off, then you're in an advantage. If opponent sees Cannon, we may be tempted to expand which will be awesome in PvPs... Ehh, I've tried this before... and the 12gate probe cutting 4 gate comes at 6 min, you won't be able to hold it. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:32 Acridice wrote: Okay, I arrest my case then... When you get masters then you are allowed to contribute input to this thread. These threads are to discuss strategy supported by factual information, claiming that someone elses build will fail because they do not cut probes or chrono boost their gateways is not supporting you point. Picking on lower level players who prove a valid point and saying "When you get masters then you are allowed to contribute input to this thread." is not only trolling but also flaming :/ | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:13 Volka wrote: I've fooling around with 1 Gate FE with the aid of a Cannons. The idea is to expand really fast, like against Terran, and do 3WG +Cannon (on cliff better) to survive with a +1W coming quickly. It won't work against 4gate all-ins (like 10 gate), but it MIGHT work against 12gate (push around 6.30ish).I've been failing at the Cannon timing so far. If you manage to hold it off, then you're in an advantage. If opponent sees Cannon, we may be tempted to expand which will be awesome in PvPs... a nexus + forge + 1 cannon + 1W upgrade= 650(1 gate less)/100 recources spent more than ur 4 gating opponent till the 6 minute mark (not taking into account the minerals spent on double probe production) By the time the 4 gate hits, ur eco won't even be close to the point where u pull ahead of one base play I had a lot of hard times with expanding even after I did severe eco damage using Adel's no gas build. | ||
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Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:07 tar wrote: a nexus + forge + 1 cannon + 1W upgrade= 650(1 gate less)/100 recources spent more than ur 4 gating opponent till the 6 minute mark (not taking into account the minerals spent on double probe production) By the time the 4 gate hits, ur eco won't even be close to the point where u pull ahead of one base play I had a lot of hard times with expanding even after I did severe eco damage using Adel's no gas build. you want to fall back to 4warpgate after you expand, if worse comes to pass then you are at the same potential as your opponent. with adel make sure you chrono boost your warpgate tech after the stalkers come out. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
4 Gate vs 1Gate Robo: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/135410-1v1-protoss-shakuras-plateau My attack was also very bad, the pylon warp in didnt do as I expected and I almost lost all my stalkers | ||
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Crysus
New Zealand29 Posts
A major way to improve pvp is simply micro your heart out and make sure you dont get caught off guard by the opponents sentries. Best of luck for the future. P.S how do i post a thread of my own? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
IMO chronoing units out of 3 Gates ways works best since it transitions into tech easier and allows you to put on early pressure before warpgate tech is done so you can both confirm if they are doing 4-Gate or not and to delay their proxy pylon probe if they are in fact doing it. There are a lot of variations of 3-Gate so you have to experiment to see what works best in what situations. Generally on larger maps if I suspect 4-Gate and I see no initial zealot from them I get 3 early stalkers which I use to confirm the 4-Gate and delay their proxy pylon probe + escort, which will usually only be 1 zealot and 1 stalker. If they push me back by warping in their first round of units at their base that's when I warp in a sentry or 2 at mine and then make an arc of sentries at the top of my ramp which will blast any warping in zealots they try to make with no casualities w/ some minor micro. Once you hold this first round of warp-ins at your ramp you can pretty much just overwhelm them. | ||
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ionlyplayPROtoss
Canada573 Posts
On February 06 2011 02:21 Rhythm.102 wrote: Once warpgate tech comes in, he will be the one in the dark. Containing a cannoned ramp in general is not a good idea, for all you know he may never need to push out. Not sure if being 3300 diamond means to you but cannons are awful. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
If you fend off the original attack, you can throw up a tech building and either defend and tech up or add on another gateway and go on the agressive. | ||
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NintendoStar
United States217 Posts
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