EPTI am apart of those that stand in front. I live and die and my team wins. I am a tank.
[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 29
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Sermokala
United States14058 Posts
I am apart of those that stand in front. I live and die and my team wins. I am a tank. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:57 Promises wrote: Where does Fizz fit into compositions? Can he hold his own solo top? With what would you duo him? Competetive Jungler? I think his dmg etc is sick, but I don't really know where to put him.... I'm pretty sure the only place you could put him is top or mid. his jungles weak as he has no hard cc regardless of gap closers and is red reliant. mid is weird because he's not really ap bursty, and top is weird because he really has no sustain as far as lifesteal or any healing really. personally I'd just run him top with aims towards a revolver for vamp and then aim for whatever's good on him. you could run tanky ap bruiser deeps yorick style OR build him like jax/nid/akali with rageblades and gunblades. possibly rylai's but idunno if the procs work on fizz. still suffers from the same problems that doublelift talked about concerning shyvana in that her only role is top really but she has no sustain so she's shit at higher levels. kinda the same exact story with fizz, but too early to tell really. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
GP Lee Sin Yi Nunu Olaf Shyvana Trundle Tryndamere Twitch | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:05 mOnion wrote: personally I'd just run him top with aims towards a revolver for vamp and then aim for whatever's good on him. you could run tanky ap bruiser deeps yorick style OR build him like jax/nid/akali with rageblades and gunblades. possibly rylai's but idunno if the procs work on fizz. Pretty sure I saw Rylai's does not proc with Fizz. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:09 Craton wrote: A lot of junglers don't have hard CC. It's hardly a requirement. GP Lee Sin Yi Nunu Olaf Shyvana Trundle Tryndamere Twitch GP has built in slow. Lee Sin has a huge slow AND a knockback. Yi sucks top. Nunu has a huge slow. Olaf has a decent slow. Shyvana sucks top. Trundle sucks top. Tryndamere indeed lacks CC, but he makes up in damages. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:09 Craton wrote: A lot of junglers don't have hard CC. It's hardly a requirement. GP Lee Sin Yi Nunu Olaf Shyvana Trundle Tryndamere Twitch Most of those nobody plays in competitive play for a reason. You could probably consider Trundle Pillar a hard CC even though it isn't in the literal sense. Lee Sin and GP are taken for their utility because they have on demand slows and ridiculous kits. Gangplank less so since he's been nerfed into oblivion, but he's dropping out of style anyways. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:19 UniversalSnip wrote: side note, i actually have no idea what the counterplay vs ryze is. He's just a fountain of dps, it feels like there's plenty of skill involved for the ryze player but his opponent basically has the option of being in range or not being in range. What are the basics of playing vs him? I'm not a great player by any means, but what I do is just ignore him until you think you can burst him. He's a sustained damage mage, so he needs to chain his spells repeatedly for max damage. If you play like a Veigar or Kass, you need to constantly get in his face and out-burst him. Kass is probably a silly example, being just the straight anti-mage, but you get my point. Anything you can do to out-burst him or interrupt his casting (silence, stun, knockback/up, etc) throws off Ryze pretty hard. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
 http://www.own3d.tv/live/44080/Play_with_Riot_EU | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:19 UniversalSnip wrote: side note, i actually have no idea what the counterplay vs ryze is. He's just a fountain of dps, it feels like there's plenty of skill involved for the ryze player but his opponent basically has the option of being in range or not being in range. What are the basics of playing vs him? Cass. Pretty sure her Q out ranges his W | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:23 AwayFromLife wrote: I'm not a great player by any means, but what I do is just ignore him until you think you can burst him. He's a sustained damage mage, so he needs to chain his spells repeatedly for max damage. If you play like a Veigar or Kass, you need to constantly get in his face and out-burst him. Kass is probably a silly example, being just the straight anti-mage, but you get my point. Anything you can do to out-burst him or interrupt his casting (silence, stun, knockback/up, etc) throws off Ryze pretty hard. Yeah, pretty much any other AP will out-burst Ryze so use that threat. The other way to deal with Ryze is to push his lane super hard. Ryze can't push lanes at all without using his ultimate so if you push a lot early game you can force him to miss cs or to use alot of his mana to farm under tower. You can also then just recall and heal often or go gank lanes, Ryze will take a super long time to push a lane from his tower to yours, so you won't miss much gold/xp. As a Ryze player this is super annoying to deal with | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:13 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Most of those nobody plays in competitive play for a reason. You could probably consider Trundle Pillar a hard CC even though it isn't in the literal sense. Lee Sin and GP are taken for their utility because they have on demand slows and ridiculous kits. Gangplank less so since he's been nerfed into oblivion, but he's dropping out of style anyways. Fizz actually has a really absurd kit, too - he's got a form of % based damage that lets him run a no-wriggle's jungle, he has 2 displacement effects (one of which pops all projectiles), and his passive makes him take basically no damage in the jungle. And his ult's a fucking shark. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:18 Craton wrote: Most of the ones with hard CC don't get picked in competitive play either, so I don't see the relevance. Well mainly because your original post was a list of junglers who lack hard CC. My point was nobody actually plays any of those so you can hardly consider them junglers in the first place. Also the popular junglers right now imo: Nocturne - huge gap closer and fear Trundle - I've already stated that pillar could be considered cc even though it isn't in the literal sense. If used properly it practically is though. Udyr - Isn't taken for his ganking abilities, although he has cc and a movement steroid. Can't really think of anything else besides Gangplank, but I already addressed him in my previous post. Also, if Riot plans for anything to be able to jungle pretty quickly like somebody mentioned earlier then I suspect we'll be seeing even more champions with hard cc jungling. Strong ganks aren't the only way to jungle, but it's definitely a strong attribute to have on a jungler. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
I don't know if Fizz will be top-tier, but his kit has very strong jungling potential based solely on his mobility. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Well mainly because your original post was a list of junglers who lack hard CC. My point was nobody actually plays any of those so you can hardly consider them junglers in the first place. Also the popular junglers right now imo: Nocturne - huge gap closer and fear Trundle - I've already stated that pillar could be considered cc even though it isn't in the literal sense. If used properly it practically is though. Udyr - Isn't taken for his ganking abilities, although he has cc and a movement steroid. Can't really think of anything else besides Gangplank, but I already addressed him in my previous post. Also, if Riot plans for anything to be able to jungle pretty quickly like somebody mentioned earlier then I suspect we'll be seeing even more champions with hard cc jungling. Strong ganks aren't the only way to jungle, but it's definitely a strong attribute to have on a jungler. Don't forget Skarner, a lot of pros have been showing him off in skirmishes/show matches lately. He's got a slow and a hard CC, but on a long-ish CD. Like Craton said, a lot of junglers aren't picked for strong ganks, but clear time and not being dependent on farm to do well. A lot of times, if they're not strong gankers, they'll just wait for good gank opportunities (overextended, what have you), rather than forcing them. Junglers with good ganks (Fiddle with ult/fear/silence, for example) can force ganks to happen, even in a neutral, non-advantageous position. Not all junglers play the same, basically. | ||
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