EPT[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 31
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Iskusstvo
United Kingdom323 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:47 Iskusstvo wrote: Is there anyone else who finds most other players just don't really know when to disengage? Just played a game as Singed where a couple of times I decided to bait the enemy team near the end of a losing teamfight so my other team-mates could get away with me dying, and for some reason they saw this as an opportunity to run back in and get aced. Feels like a re-occurring theme: the majority of the playerbase just don't have good judgement calls about how easily they'll die. Fair comment or am I over-reacting? can't tell you how many times i've successfully saved some1 and they turn around and die anyways | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:54 barbsq wrote: can't tell you how many times i've successfully saved some1 and they turn around and die anyways Story of my life. I usually go in to try and peel damage off of whoever i dyign, but they think i'm going in to kill them, but they end up dying anyways. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:54 barbsq wrote: can't tell you how many times i've successfully saved some1 and they turn around and die anyways I think it's actually because they want to help and not get yelled at. How many times have you played with a shitty teammate who engaged a hopeless fight (like 2 v 5 or something) and got pissy because you had enough brains to not join them? | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:59 Node wrote: I think it's actually because they want to help and not get yelled at. How many times have you played with a shitty teammate who engaged a hopeless fight (like 2 v 5 or something) and got pissy because you had enough brains to not join them? It's exactly that reason, I just ignore people if they get mad when you don't help though, bad fights are the bane of my elo. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
On November 17 2011 08:15 BlueBird. wrote: It's exactly that reason, I just ignore people if they get mad when you don't help though, bad fights are the bane of my elo. I started practicing janna recently because my friends that I play with make me play support, Every time I ulti its the same thing where teammates would just say oh look he just healed us lets run in and engage the people he pushed away from us... | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
On November 17 2011 08:15 BlueBird. wrote: It's exactly that reason, I just ignore people if they get mad when you don't help though, bad fights are the bane of my elo. my ignore list is so long right now it's pretty independent of elo | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 17 2011 06:47 Craton wrote: The logic went: 1.) Fizz is a bad jungler because of factors which include not having a hard CC 2.) I rebut with examples of many junglers who don't have hard CC, therefore hard CC is hardly a requirement 3.) Someone says many of them aren't played in competitive play 4.) I rebut again by saying many junglers w/ hard CC aren't played either, which nullifies the previous argument Most of the junglers that are semi viable (probably all the ones on that list you made) because they don't have hard cc clear extremely fast like Phoenix Udyr and Shyvana. Fizz does not fit into that category in my opinion. I also don't see how your fourth point is relevant. Just because something has hard cc doesn't mean it makes a strong jungle (although with the new masteries, I'm not sure I want to make this statement). I also don't see how them not being played proves anything at all, especially when most of the current junglers do in fact have hard cc or something very close to it. It certainly gives them a powerful gank, but there's a lot more to consider than the black and white here. I hope we can agree that having hard cc is a huge plus for a jungler because it allows them to exert control which is what the jungler is there for. I can't think of a jungler with hard cc that isn't used either so you'll have to elaborate on that ^_^ Most of the strong junglers have some of the following:
For example, I listed Nocturne as a strong jungle. He doesn't have a slow (except he'll probably have red buff most of the game), but he has cc (fear), a super gap closer ultimate, an above average clear speed, and one of the strongest chasing buffs in the game. He could use a bit more farm since he scales super well, but lee sin is the only master of all trades ^_^ Another example, Rammus. He has a slow (powerball), a hard cc (taunt), a movespeed buff (powerball), and one of the fastest first clears (not sure how this holds up post mastery change). Although his clear speed kinda falls off after the second clear, he has one of the strongest hard cc's and early ganks in the entire game. Fizz doesn't meet very many of these common attributes and that is why I believe Fizz is not a good jungle. I have a very similar opinion of Shyvana, although she actually has a good clear speed. I still don't think she's a good jungler. edit:forgot to refresh ^_^ All of this has already been discussed. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
So what this comes down to is that this discussion of Fizz jungle right now is pointless. Nobody has a good enough sense of his lane matchups 2 days after release to say how strong of a laner he is--and without knowing that, we can't decide how comparatively appealing his jungle is. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
In organized play I think it's more important because giving up certain champions is very bad and there's a lot more counterpicking, in solo queue I don't think it makes, say, alistar any worse as a jungler that he's a great support. | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
On November 17 2011 08:39 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Just because something has hard cc doesn't mean it makes a strong jungle [...] I also don't see how them not being played proves anything at all That is my point. | ||
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Deltablazy
Canada580 Posts
Back to endless grinding days. Too bad solo top always taken so i cant carry. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:31 Deltablazy wrote: Fell down by 100 ELO. Back to endless grinding days. Too bad solo top always taken so i cant carry. 100 elo? You mean 1000? Its actually easier to carry your team as a jungler since it lets you roam to gank as opposed to staying top and farming all day. You won't autolose if bot lane loses laning phase like you would if you were top solo because you can now help bot lane if they are losing. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On November 17 2011 07:43 Requizen wrote: Yeah, he goes in and out, but he's got a place. During his "out" times, people just forget he exists, until some pro dominates with him, ganks a bunch, and controls both jungles. Then everyone starts jungling Nunu, but realize his late game is eh. And the cycle continues. Nunu's lategame is more than eh - if you aren't extremely tanky or setting a trap, Nunu's offensive potential is limited to Blood Boiling someone else and throwing ice balls at someone. Even with the potential to steal with Consume, Nunu's a solid contender for having the worst lategame of any champion in the entire game :/ | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:36 dignity wrote: 100 elo? You mean 1000? Its actually easier to carry your team as a jungler since it lets you roam to gank as opposed to staying top and farming all day. You won't autolose if bot lane loses laning phase like you would if you were top solo because you can now help bot lane if they are losing. Man, trying to gank bot lane when they're losing often turns out into bot lane feeding 3 kills (or 1-2 kills when either you get singled out because the lane didnt help or when they derped in offensively and got killed) Gank the lane that's winning so they win so hard that A) your lane guy can carry harder and B) the other team rages more. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
Except that [...] part is everything important that I said. If you pick out things and read them in isolation you can make illogical appear logical. Junglers with hard cc not being played is not the reason why junglers without hard cc are viable. To bring it up as a counter argument is completely illogical and makes absolutely no sense. The junglers without hard cc are viable because they have pretty much all those other attributes that I listed making them strong junglers for other reasons. Your point might be correct, but you don't seem to understand why. I'm pretty sure this all started because I read something in isolation myself without noticing and then we went off on this whole meaningless tangent so I'm just going to drop it. | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:31 Deltablazy wrote: Fell down by 100 ELO. Back to endless grinding days. Too bad solo top always taken so i cant carry. Kinda how I feel when I don't get mid. Got mid for a lot of games straight and climbed to 1600 from 1480 relatively easily. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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