EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 358
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
In my province, we're getting around 340k doses of AZ, and we're going to strategically deploy them to ring outbreaks, and target key populations, while keeping the MRNA for age based vaccination, decreasing. Our cases are going up right now, which isn't boding well for avoiding further disruptions to normal life before the end. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On March 23 2021 06:27 LegalLord wrote: Ideally we all lock ourselves inside until we can globally eliminate all infectious disease, lest we risk the off chance that we infect someone. If you were putting forth something other than your own slight decline in comfort you might have an argument. But stating that masks are too much is incredibly ridiculous as so many people in eastern countries do that stuff on the regular and nobody ever talks about surgeons during long operations complaining. Or medical personnel for that matter. Whatever you mean by awkward social distancing, it doesn't sound like you're going crazy due to loneliness though. It's fine to vent but that's the wrong way man. Was it so bad wearing that mask so it's worth your father's death? I don't think so and wear it when visiting family even though I do get headaches. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 23 2021 07:36 Artisreal wrote: If you were putting forth something other than your own slight decline in comfort you might have an argument. But stating that masks are too much is incredibly ridiculous as so many people in eastern countries do that stuff on the regular and nobody ever talks about surgeons during long operations complaining. Or medical personnel for that matter. Whatever you mean by awkward social distancing, it doesn't sound like you're going crazy due to loneliness though. It's fine to vent but that's the wrong way man. Was it so bad wearing that mask so it's worth your father's death? I don't think so and wear it when visiting family even though I do get headaches. Your canned mask spiel is noted, but doesn't really reflect any meaningful view of reality. Seems like just a recycled speech from a year ago that doesn't really apply to a situation where the vaccines are becoming widespread. There is no medical reason for vaccinated people to have to continue to wear masks and have to live under lockdown conditions. The risk is minimal and the only justification seems to be that it's a good signaling mechanism that masks are still important. Nah, ain't worth locking down for that. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25573 Posts
Considering the strategy has been containment and have the vaccine(s) save the day is it particularly wise to open up in this capacity prior to the endgame being reached? Or if you do allow it for the undoubted morale and economic benefit surely you need mandatory quarantining at each end of a journey at least? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21755 Posts
On March 23 2021 08:18 WombaT wrote: The quarantine is probably not going to happen because the typical duration of a vacation doesn't mesh well with spending 2 weeks in quarantine on either end.I’m more concerned about the upcoming, heavily advertised push for foreign recreational travel down the line. Considering the strategy has been containment and have the vaccine(s) save the day is it particularly wise to open up in this capacity prior to the endgame being reached? Or if you do allow it for the undoubted morale and economic benefit surely you need mandatory quarantining at each end of a journey at least? I expect such a push to happen purely for an economic standpoint of not wanting to lose 2 summers in a row despite it being a massive risk. Could be supported by quick tests or some form of vaccine pasports, but the latter is going to cause a lot of social problems if people want to go but can't because RNG hasn't had their name up for vaccination yet. Personally I'm not counting on things 'going back to normal' until past the summer and more like the end of the year. | ||
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Slydie
1923 Posts
I just came over this article, which sites a large number of articles questioning how much impact hard lockdowns really had, and how it was really a giant experiment with little to no scientific basis. I don't think history will be kind with how march 2020 was handled in Europe. Some quotes: Comparing weekly mortality in 24 European countries, the findings in this paper suggest that more severe lockdown policies have not been associated with lower mortality. In other words, the lockdowns have not worked as intended. (About regional lockdowns in Northen Jutland, Denmark): Our analysis shows that while infection levels decreased, they did so before lockdown was effective, and infection numbers also decreased in neighbour municipalities without mandates. Direct spill-over to neighbour municipalities or the simultaneous mass testing do not explain this. Instead, control of infection pockets possibly together with voluntary social behaviour was apparently effective before the mandate, explaining why the infection decline occurred before and in both the mandated and non-mandated areas. The data suggest that efficient infection surveillance and voluntary compliance make full lockdowns unnecessary at least in some circumstances.” https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-do-not-control-the-coronavirus-the-evidence/ I have seen this in practice too, after the initial no-brainers like closing bars, limiting travel and social gatherings, there are diminishing returns for things like closing non-essential businesses. As angry as I am with Spanish over-the-top first lockdown, the country actually managed the 2nd and 3rd waves while keeping both schools, stores and hairdressers open. If you say the mask mandates helped, they didn't really, as the 2nd and 3rd waves also STARTED with the mask mandates in place. There are also other ways of making sure you don't infect your father than wearing masks. I wish people would stop being so obsessed with covering their face up. We have 43 facial muscles and a brain specifically designed to recognice faces for a reason. Mask are uncomofortable, but the worst is that they make us socially and emotionally blind. We are humans, not Protoss or dogs. I can't way to burn them all and get my life back. | ||
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farvacola
United States18831 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4337 Posts
On March 23 2021 09:03 farvacola wrote: That’s a terrible, discredited source. If you follow the link it's an amalgamation of 31 study links. All he is doing is drawing an incredibly basic analysis based on those studies. If you're claiming these studies are discredited, post proof. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3980 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25573 Posts
On March 23 2021 08:41 Gorsameth wrote: The quarantine is probably not going to happen because the typical duration of a vacation doesn't mesh well with spending 2 weeks in quarantine on either end. I expect such a push to happen purely for an economic standpoint of not wanting to lose 2 summers in a row despite it being a massive risk. Could be supported by quick tests or some form of vaccine pasports, but the latter is going to cause a lot of social problems if people want to go but can't because RNG hasn't had their name up for vaccination yet. Personally I'm not counting on things 'going back to normal' until past the summer and more like the end of the year. It just seems to me a needless risk, but hey people need their foreign holidays... It would seem one of the remaining potential roadblocks to a return to normality is some intermingling of regional variants and a mutation that renders current vaccines ineffective and then it’s a big reset, worst case scenario. I think the South are lagging behind even our reopening timetable, which is less ambitious than the U.K, but it’s quite conceivable that many of the denizens of Ireland still won’t be able to enjoy a regular beer with their friends like in the ‘before times’ come at least early summer, but be able to fly out and back from places with close to no restrictions whatsoever. I think domestic freedom of a summer, or close to it is such a step up from the current state of affairs that really it should be blooming enough. I’ve known people who’ve taken their own lives due to the effects of lockdown on their livelihoods and subsequently their mental health, provision of mental health support be it formal or informal has been hugely impacted, it’s not been an easy time for many but we’ll have gone through all that and people just have to have their foreign holiday? That can’t be sacced? Or at least require some hoops to jump through? Anyway I mean it may work out fine and I’m overreacting on this specific point, and if it does then people will have had good experiences and bolstered struggling tourist areas and that’s a net gain, I just do worry that the risks really don’t outweigh that reward on this. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25573 Posts
On March 23 2021 09:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If you follow the link it's an amalgamation of 31 study links. All he is doing is drawing an incredibly basic analysis based on those studies. If you're claiming these studies are discredited, post proof. How do you as a layman disprove 31 separate studies in a manner that would be satisfactory? From how the preface was worded more as political spiel than some neutral attempt to look at this particular issue, I’d have concerns that the source went looking for studies that backed a base position then crammed as many of them in as could be found. The language is pretty loaded throughout, in a manner that’s pretty atypical of any attempt to write up aggregation of scientific findings and present said findings. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong but many a red flag is before me. I think there’s plenty of scope to discuss lockdowns vs keeping freedoms and where the cost/benefit in doing so falls and if it’s worth the trade-off, both numerically as well as on some philosophical level. This seems to be making the case that lockdowns have no appreciable effect at all which just doesn’t seem to pass a basic logical smell test. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15703 Posts
On March 23 2021 09:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If you follow the link it's an amalgamation of 31 study links. All he is doing is drawing an incredibly basic analysis based on those studies. If you're claiming these studies are discredited, post proof. That isn't how arguments on data work. When you are the one insisting you know more than experts, it is on you to prove it. Right now, there is no reason to believe a discredited source. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On March 23 2021 07:51 LegalLord wrote: Your canned mask spiel is noted, but doesn't really reflect any meaningful view of reality. Seems like just a recycled speech from a year ago that doesn't really apply to a situation where the vaccines are becoming widespread. There is no medical reason for vaccinated people to have to continue to wear masks and have to live under lockdown conditions. The risk is minimal and the only justification seems to be that it's a good signaling mechanism that masks are still important. Nah, ain't worth locking down for that. What part of you can still spread covid after being vaccinated is unclear to you? Just wear the goddamn mask. I do agree that a robust system with advantages for vaccinated and tested people so that they can do stuff like go to the gym, pool, shop around would be nice. But unfortunately I don't think we can trust people to not game the system and at least here in Germany the sudden data security scepticism of probably the same people who are using card payments and payback programmes was a bit weird. And forget data security if you want accountability. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Some people think we have to continue to live under quarantine for another year “just to be safe” after the threat has been quite thoroughly been mitigated. I have little sympathy for that position or the vapid moralizing that accompanies it. It’s certainly not backed by any meaningful rationale beyond “but you might infect those elderly people that were first to be vaccinated anyways!” | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8555 Posts
for a change, I kinda like what our government in Austria is trying to do - regional lockdowns based on how infection/incidence rates etc. you cross a threshold, you go into lockdown. basic precautions like ffp2 masks in shops remain across the board, but in Vorarlberg for example coffee shops and restaurants can open and some do, and some vaccinated people enjoy sitting alone in there lol the problem is that the national government has achieved the impossible, their terrible messaging and then crumbling under the pressure of reality and/or special interest groups (tourism!) split public opinion into 3 parts. one third wishes for stricter lockdowns, one wants to open fully, and another is kinda in the middle lol. then you have average people mixed in with idiots/right wingers and conspiracy nuts using their new found time at home to poison their minds on social media and going to anti mask and anti lockdown protests fuelled by idiocy and fear of a dictatorship. tu felix Austria indeed! | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4731 Posts
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