EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 356
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8760 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
That said: 1) The side effect is treatable if diagnosed early 2) It seems to be occurring primarily in relatively young and healthy people (and older folks desperately need vaccinated in the EU) and most importantly 3) The difference scale effect is very tiny, and the difference scale is all that's relevant for public health If it's really just a fixed ratio increase in this one event, vaccination should resume in the next few days with a rider for patients to be aware of clot symptoms. To me the bigger potential concern with the AZ blood clot is not the rates being observed, but the potential for it to be the result of a bad batch of drug or the result of poor storage and maintenance. Especially given the constant manufacturing delays and difficulties with that vaccine in particular. If that's the culprit, it should obviously be fixed and avoided in future batches. Fortunately, this should also be diagnosable within a few days. The other issue is, given the fact that it's mostly happening in younger women, it could be linked to some specific type of hormonal birth control that wasn't common in the trials; if so some major advisories would be needed, but vaccination should resume ASAP in most groups. Either way, Pfizer and Moderna looking better every day. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
Hotels (with some small excpetions) Galleries (with exception fo grocery stores) Theaters, museums, cinemas etc. Pools, spas, casions etc. Fitness, gyms. Sport objcts/arenas. Schools classes I-III will go to remote. Remote work is recomended for most institutions. So not a full lockdown, but going back to some restrictions that were lifted early in 2020. | ||
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Slydie
2016 Posts
Source in Norwegian: https://www.dagbladet.no/studio/nyhetsstudio/5?post=59688 So, will the benefits outweigh this rare but potentially fatal side effect? My guess is yes, but the antivaxxers will get a new argument, and many will be very sceptical about taking this particular vaccine. I hope they find out quickly what can be done to restore any confidence lost! | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
i don't see an happy ending here. going forward i foresee years of restrictions and in that time, people who were going to die to it, will die; still, we'll praise vaccinations for curing us. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On March 18 2021 21:22 Slydie wrote: So, it looks like the blood cloths some patients had was indeed caused by autoimmune responses to the AstraZenica vaccine. Source in Norwegian: https://www.dagbladet.no/studio/nyhetsstudio/5?post=59688 So, will the benefits outweigh this rare but potentially fatal side effect? My guess is yes, but the antivaxxers will get a new argument, and many will be very sceptical about taking this particular vaccine. I hope they find out quickly what can be done to restore any confidence lost! I don't know what the Norwegian source says but: https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html https://www.who.int/news/item/17-03-2021-who-statement-on-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-safety-signals A careful review of all available safety data of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the European Union (EU) and UK with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca has shown no evidence of an increased risk of pulmonary embolism, deep vein thrombosis (DVT) or thrombocytopenia, in any defined age group, gender, batch or in any particular country. So far across the EU and UK, there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine, based on the number of cases the Company has received as of 8 March. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines. I do not put any stock in theses rumours regarding blood clots, the vaccine seems safe. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On March 19 2021 03:34 emperorchampion wrote: I don't know what the Norwegian source says but: https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html https://www.who.int/news/item/17-03-2021-who-statement-on-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-safety-signals I do not put any stock in theses rumours regarding blood clots, the vaccine seems safe. There's a reason that they say there's no increased risk of PE, DVT, or thrombocytopenia, and it's because the blood clots in question (sinus vein thromboses) fall into none of those categories. I don't think they usually even get lumped into DVTs despite technically being "deep" veins. That said, the overall impact is incredibly low. The only real problem is if it turns out to be correlated with other things that just aren't common in the populations currently getting the AZ vaccines (the old), like birth control (which varies hugely by country) or things associated with good immune function. | ||
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Slydie
2016 Posts
I do not put any stock in theses rumours regarding blood clots, the vaccine seems safe. I would not panic, but they examined 3 cases of blood cloths, and found that a specific antibody caused them, and they had no other explaination than an autoimmune reaction caused by the vaccine. The EU has already said the vaccine is still approved, but some will include a warning staying this is a rare but possible side-effect. Now, they are working on finding if anyone is predisposed for this particular side effect. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Still a rather low number of occurences. Give it to old men and get on with it? | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Covid has killed over1/600 people in the UK. 1/1000000 risk of clots is quite a long ways removed from that. Enough to be a concern, albeit a distant second in comparison. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
The Paul Ehrlich Institute is the German health agency in charge of vaccines and biomedicines, from my understanding. They are not manufacturing these numbers or relying on rumor. If you want less plain language updates, I think they're (mostly) in German or other languages for the moment, so I can't be much help. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On March 19 2021 09:43 JimmiC wrote: So far I have only seen data that shows that the risk of clots with the vaccine is lower then the general public. And I have not seen anything indicating it is worse, but with so many governments restricting it, I feel a little smoke and fire thing. But it could also just be fear driven, with the thought that people will trust it more if they are overly cautious, but I think the opposite is happening and many people who were against it, or just scared of it are using this pausing as "proof" that it is dangerous. Edit: this is the stuff I have been reading, with nothing saying it caused it, but some saying it is inconclusive at this point if the 10 people out of the 20 million that had clots whether it was related. I also want to add that if you watch the end of any drug commercial and read the possible side effects they are a lot scarier than this, and yet people still take them. Heck a lot of people could avoid the pills they are on if they ate better and exercised more but they are willing to accept a much higher risk to take their blood thinners, or diabetes pills. I think it is reasonable for people who take zero pills/shots of any kind to be worried, I think it is unreasonable for people who take another pills/shots to be worried about vaccines. The vast majority of people fall into the second category. In social media groups I talk to people with various political views, some of which are very radical. The ones who are already firmly against vaccination selectively take any information as confirmation, they don't care about such nuance like what the government response is. If the government doesn't halt distribution, they'll talk ill of the government. I don't know what the impact is on people who are more on the fence. With that being said, I was cautious myself when news came out about unexpected side effects from AZ, but after reading into it I dropped my worries. It's good to be cautious generally, but I don't think that vaccine in particular causes meaningful problems. However, as the investigation continues, any further news that comes out will be used by anti-vaxxers. Meanwhile pro-vaxxers like me will have to play defense. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On March 19 2021 04:21 JimmiC wrote: i don't really care about it but your post made me google for a bit and All the data and research indicates that it won't be like that. I guess time will tell, I'm betting on the viroligists and other scientists being mostly right when we look back. In January, Nature asked more than 100 immunologists, infectious-disease researchers and virologists working on the coronavirus whether it could be eradicated. Almost 90% of respondents think that the coronavirus will become endemic — meaning that it will continue to circulate in pockets of the global population for years to come (see 'Endemic future'). i'm betting they're right too.i'm not going to debate this because ... yea, but everything we know about the coronaviridae family and logic dictates that the virus will be endemic. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
There many diseases that have been regionally endemic for centuries. Many of them are also more dangerous than covid. It is all about transmission. We will probably need to get boosters each year just like the flu, and there will probably be clusters popping up here and there, but there is a very plausible path back to normality with good vaccine coverage. EDIT: this is actually two paragraphs down in the article that you cited but didn't link, by the way https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2 But failure to eradicate the virus does not mean that death, illness or social isolation will continue on the scales seen so far. The future will depend heavily on the type of immunity people acquire through infection or vaccination and how the virus evolves. Influenza and the four human coronaviruses that cause common colds are also endemic: but a combination of annual vaccines and acquired immunity means that societies tolerate the seasonal deaths and illnesses they bring without requiring lockdowns, masks and social distancing. | ||
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