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United States42008 Posts
On August 10 2019 23:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 23:38 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
I find it funny how Trump supporters are saying Clinton had him killed, and the non-Trumpers are saying Trump had him killed. At least both sides agree there is something fishy going on... Seriously doubt it was Trump's side seeing how it was his justice department pursuing him. Trump is stupid enough to try to leverage Epstein against political opponents and not secure him though. Low level gangs (and the prosecutors running their cases) manage shit like this better. EDIT: A vaguely competent prosecution would have him under the highest security possible at all times if they actually expected him to testify against anyone remotely important.
Its not Trump’s justice department pursuing him. Gotta remember that a member of Trump’s own cabinet confessed to conspiring to release Epstein. They lost control of the case, they would much rather it had stayed covered up.
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United States42008 Posts
On August 11 2019 02:52 JimmiC wrote:
The other big issue is if they did anything special for him there would be a big uproar about him getting special treatment. Hopefully he left a note, or kept records somewhere and they can catch all his sleaze bag buddies as well.
There’s no way he got suicided without them having already found the dead man’s switch. He’s a professional blackmailer, he knows that his death solves problems for others. If you want me to believe that he took his own life then I’d first want to see all the kompromat released. If the dead man’s switch has been disarmed that supports murder.
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On August 11 2019 03:34 JimmiC wrote:
The question is what proof would be required for you to believe it is a suicide? If there is nothing that would do so there is no point investigating, since the investigators would obviously be a part of the conspiracy.
How about a video? The wing he was in supposedly has lights on and CCTV 24 hours a day.
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Just because it's suicide doesn't mean there is no complicity by other actors. If Epstein understood that he couldn't get out of this arrest he might consider suicide attractive, but it would still have to be arranged that he would be taken off suicide watch and so on. But more details will come out, maybe we shouldn't speculate too much.
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On August 11 2019 03:34 JimmiC wrote:Look I'm not saying it is impossible that he got murdered. I'm saying it is possible that he simply committed suicide. If he got to be a billionare off blackmailing and his "dead man's switch" was easy to turn off he would have been offed 20 years ago. The question is what proof would be required for you to believe it is a suicide? If there is nothing that would do so there is no point investigating, since the investigators would obviously be a part of the conspiracy. Do I think someone with lots to lose could have offed him, sure. Do I think that he could have offed himself because he didn't want to go from being a billionaire to a sex crimes criminal in jail, sure. And at this point neither is proven so acting like one of them is fact is crazy. Poll: If Vegas placed odds on whether or not it was a suicide where u bet?I'd be Murder no matter the odds (15) 71% I'd bet suicide if murder was favored, and take the odds (3) 14% I'd bet on Suicide no matter the odds (2) 10% I'd bet murder if Suicide was favored, and take the odds (1) 5% 21 total votes Your vote: If Vegas placed odds on whether or not it was a suicide where u bet? (Vote): I'd bet on Suicide no matter the odds
(Vote): I'd be Murder no matter the odds
(Vote): I'd bet murder if Suicide was favored, and take the odds
(Vote): I'd bet suicide if murder was favored, and take the odds
Edit: the idea is if you are sure you would bet the top two and if you are leaning one way but not that sure you would bet on of the bottom 2.
Voted already, but does assisted suicide(guard not looking, extra shirt provided) or other things like that count as murder or suicide?
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The question is what proof would be required for you to believe it is a suicide? If there is nothing that would do so there is no point investigating, since the investigators would obviously be a part of the conspiracy.
Something like this would work for me:
From a political place (Congress probably) enact a law or similar that states that all investigations related to Epstein need independent oversight and provide some modest funds for this (if more are needed they can be crowd sourced).
Choose 3 well known legal organisations similar to the ACLU that are known for working for citizens rights and transparency. Make them pick out a small pool of lawyers/judges/investigators that have the necessary skills.
Make sure the pools are open so they can be vetted.
Randomly select a couple of independent investigators from the different pools. The job they have is to review the ongoing investigations and their conclusions to see if things are done right and at the end write their own report not on the criminal matters but how they were performed (basically everything was done by the book, it looks fine or that things were omitted, leads weren't followed up etc). They will have access and clearance to everything. Make them sign rather mild NDA's (mostly focused on not leaking things to the press) so that they don't talk willy nilly about anything but also so that they can break them if they feel there is a strong need for it.
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The number of people implicated is insane. I've heard about two foreign prime ministers, a senate majority leader, another senator, a governor, a past and a future president, a vice president, several billionaires all being pretty directly associated with Epstein, being either on the flight logs or named in the unsealed documents of a few days ago.
We don't know what exactly happened. I can believe that just because you've met Epstein socially at parties you don't necessarily have to have been part of the inner cabal of pedophiles. But certainly most of these people had to have known what was up. I was reading some of the info about the released documents and one of the child traffic victims mentioned being introduced to several of the most powerful men in the world at the time. It's absurd to think these very powerful people would just hang around and socialize with a frightened teenage sex traffic victim, unless they already suspected/knew what was up and were okay with it. This just confirms my suspicion that maybe until recently it was considered perfectly acceptable for rich powerful men to have what is functionally a harem.
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Even the normies outside of politics think this smells to high heaven. It takes a wholly unfounded and undeserved faith in known criminal actors and cover-up artists to presume this wasn't at minimum manslaughter by the state.
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Norway28561 Posts
Is it suicide if some important people tell Epstein 'just end it, it will make everything easier and it will be better for you as well, believe me, we're gonna remove the guards now for 20 minutes here is a belt. good bye it was nice to know you old friend'?
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On August 11 2019 08:31 JimmiC wrote:
You presume away.
Im going to be incredibly naive and wait until they complete the investigation before I decide if it is a cover-up or even a murder. And who knows by the end I probably won't know. This is a interesting one because everyone from every side and even the center thinks it was a conspiracy. Although I think most think it was a different group of "them" that did it.
Also if the Vegas odd were anything like our poll and I could get like 8-1 on suicide Id be feeling pretty good. In my ideal world he had some sort of deadmans switch and some journalist just got a shit ton of dirt.
The point is your naivete is the same that thought he was going to spill the beans on his cohorts. It's wholly unfounded and undeserved, but you're entitled to have it anyway.
Just don't think you're taking the more reasonable position because you think there should be an inexplicable deference to authority.
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On August 11 2019 08:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2019 08:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 11 2019 08:31 JimmiC wrote:
You presume away.
Im going to be incredibly naive and wait until they complete the investigation before I decide if it is a cover-up or even a murder. And who knows by the end I probably won't know. This is a interesting one because everyone from every side and even the center thinks it was a conspiracy. Although I think most think it was a different group of "them" that did it.
Also if the Vegas odd were anything like our poll and I could get like 8-1 on suicide Id be feeling pretty good. In my ideal world he had some sort of deadmans switch and some journalist just got a shit ton of dirt.
The point is your naivete is the same that thought he was going to spill the beans on his cohorts. It's wholly unfounded and undeserved, but you're entitled to have it anyway. Just don't think you're taking the more reasonable position because you think there should be an inexplicable deference to authority. Well that is interesting, because if he wasn't going to spill anything then why would you kill him? This "they" (Trump, Clinton, Deep state, Whoever) is pretty dumb to open them self up like this if he wasn't going to spill anything.
I don't know how you do this...? He wasn't going to spill because he wasn't going to (make it to) trial not because he was going to not snitch...
I prefer to think it like my Naivete on the whole US coup and invasion being a sure thing almost a year ago and still has not happened.
Dude it's way past obvious it was US orchestrated and continues as it does only because of actions by the US, unilateral sanctions are quite literally this. But this is also why I don't bother posting in your Venezuela propaganda thread, so don't drag it here please.
Something being possible or even likely is not that same as it being true. And I'm sorry but when you believe things like 9/11 was a controlled explosion it is hard for me to trust your gut.
This is incoherent to the argument at hand (like your Venezuela comment) and you seem to be failing to understand what people are saying. We're saying that we're placing the burden on the state to explain itself sufficiently, where your default position is that the state should get a seemingly endless, unearned, and irresponsible benefit of the doubt.
I probably shouldn't' bother engaging you at all but if we are to engage you need to leave extraneous (and reliably misconstrued) crap out of it.
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Maybe was suicide.
If he had that much dirt on so many big names why wasn’t he killed in the past 10 years when access to him was easier?
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United States42008 Posts
On August 11 2019 09:29 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Maybe was suicide.
If he had that much dirt on so many big names why wasn’t he killed in the past 10 years when access to him was easier?
Because all blackmailers know to have a dead man's switch. Smart people don't create problems that can be solved by people killing them.
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EPT
