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The prosecutor overseeing the case only has so much control over the terms of confinement, particularly when the underlying investigation includes federal, state, and local agencies. This cloud that hangs over these kinds of cooperative cases presents huge accountability issues like the one we’re discussing, but it’s not clear where along the chain the fault of this lies (other than with literally everyone involved, which is plainly true).
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On August 11 2019 00:07 farvacola wrote:
The prosecutor overseeing the case only has so much control over the terms of confinement, particularly when the underlying investigation includes federal, state, and local agencies. This cloud that hangs over these kinds of cooperative cases presents huge accountability issues like the one we’re discussing, but it’s not clear where along the chain the fault of this lies (other than with literally everyone involved, which is plainly true).
You know as well as I do the damn prosecutor would sleep in the cell next to him if they had to in order to make sure he made it to trial if they actually thought he was going to.
This would be a career case that would go down in history implicating a cadre of some of the most powerful people ever in a single case.
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While I’d quibble on how the fame seeking federal prosecutor game works at various stages of the process, I think that’s all true enough, which is why the first stop on the “how did this happen and who is to blame” line begins with the federal entities in charge and the chain of command they answer to.
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On August 11 2019 00:15 farvacola wrote:
While I’d quibble on how the fame seeking federal prosecutor game works at various stages of the process, I think that’s all true enough, which is why the first stop on the “how did this happen and who is to blame” like begins (and usually ends) with the federal entities in charge and the chain of command they answer to.
I guess I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past Trump and his DOJ to not do their due diligence in making sure no one could get to him/his jailers out of incompetence rather than malice/profit and that whoever would "call that shot" wouldn't be Trump.
Like I don't think it ever crossed Trump's mind personally how likely Epstein was to die in prison before trial for all the reasons including the generic kiddy diddler part.
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I work at a prison. If he was on a constant suicide watch this would be impossible. I smell foul play.
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This could have been foul play, and if it was they brazenly killed him expecting people to just ignore it.
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On August 11 2019 00:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2019 00:15 farvacola wrote:
While I’d quibble on how the fame seeking federal prosecutor game works at various stages of the process, I think that’s all true enough, which is why the first stop on the “how did this happen and who is to blame” like begins (and usually ends) with the federal entities in charge and the chain of command they answer to. I guess I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past Trump and his DOJ to not do their due diligence in making sure no one could get to him/his jailers out of incompetence rather than malice/profit and that whoever would "call that shot" wouldn't be Trump. Like I don't think it ever crossed Trump's mind personally how likely Epstein was to die in prison before trial for all the reasons including the generic kiddy diddler part.
It definitely didn’t cross Trump’s mind, but I have little doubt it crossed the minds of numerous people in between him and the trial attorney in charge of the case.
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On August 11 2019 00:35 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2019 00:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 11 2019 00:15 farvacola wrote:
While I’d quibble on how the fame seeking federal prosecutor game works at various stages of the process, I think that’s all true enough, which is why the first stop on the “how did this happen and who is to blame” like begins (and usually ends) with the federal entities in charge and the chain of command they answer to. I guess I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past Trump and his DOJ to not do their due diligence in making sure no one could get to him/his jailers out of incompetence rather than malice/profit and that whoever would "call that shot" wouldn't be Trump. Like I don't think it ever crossed Trump's mind personally how likely Epstein was to die in prison before trial for all the reasons including the generic kiddy diddler part. It definitely didn’t cross Trump’s mind, but I have little doubt it crossed the minds of numerous people in between him and the trial attorney in charge of the case.
Yeah, I just think it's not unreasonable that Trump thought (to the degree he does that) he could trust that chain and it's failure didn't need any encouragement from him (may even have came as a genuine disappointment he lost a bargaining chip).
This is manslaughter (that no one will be held accountable for) at minimum no matter how you cut it though imo
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This was obviously going to happen, and lo and behold it did. Anyone who doesn't think there is foul play here of some sort is hopeless.
To me, this whole situation looks like some of the results of two feuding groups of very powerful people.
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On August 11 2019 00:48 travis wrote:
This was obviously going to happen, and lo and behold it did. Anyone who doesn't think there is foul play here of some sort is hopeless.
To me, this whole situation looks like some of the results of two feuding groups of very powerful people.
Agreed.
Maybe more than 2. (People implicated by Epstein on the left, implicated on the right, and the non-groups from both as well).
I already distrust the government so much I'm not entirely sure Epstein is even dead if I don't see a body though lol
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On August 11 2019 00:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2019 00:07 farvacola wrote:
The prosecutor overseeing the case only has so much control over the terms of confinement, particularly when the underlying investigation includes federal, state, and local agencies. This cloud that hangs over these kinds of cooperative cases presents huge accountability issues like the one we’re discussing, but it’s not clear where along the chain the fault of this lies (other than with literally everyone involved, which is plainly true). You know as well as I do the damn prosecutor would sleep in the cell next to him if they had to in order to make sure he made it to trial if they actually thought he was going to. This would be a career case that would go down in history implicating a cadre of some of the most powerful people ever in a single case.
Last time he was on trial the prosecutor just let him go. And now has a high position in the Trump admin. The normal rules don't apply.
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Recently there was a suspicious prison death in my country too and that made me think "Oh no, it looks really bad! Such things don't happen in first world countries!".
It's unbelievable Epstein wasn't guarded 24/7, heads will have to roll after this.
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Well the FBI opened an investigation into his death, will we ever know the results from the investigation?
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On August 11 2019 01:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Well the FBI opened an investigation into his death, will we ever know the results from the investigation? The result of the investigation? sure.
No guarantee that its the truth tho.
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I believe jails have a 3x average rate of suicide. Regardless of what happened to Epstein, it's a very dangerous place to be in general. The prison conditions in the US are atrocious compared to first world standards.
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Apparently he was taken off suicide watch on July 29th, 6 days after starting it. My bet is that it's fairly normal for someone to go off suicide watch after that amount of time, and this was just Epstein committing suicide on his own. It comes the night after the big document release, and his last attempt came right after he was sued again. This is also right after he was denied bail and he pretty much knows he's gonna be in jail for life.
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On August 11 2019 01:35 JimmiC wrote:
The investigation does not matter to most because in their minds they already know what happened.
The way you look at it is that the system works well and people who don't trust it are conspiracy nuts.
The way I look at it is that in case like this everyone should acknowledge that there are some very special circumstances at play. Thus the investigation should be more thorough and even more transparent. It's possible to do this right.
Most people saying this is a conspiracy don't already "know what happened" it's just that we lean more towards shady shit going down than it being a natural suicide. To the point that if the government just goes through the motions with the investigation and comes to the conclusion that everything is fine and there is nothing to see I won't trust it.
That doesn't mean I can't be convinced, just that extra measures need to be taken to convince me.
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United States42008 Posts
On August 10 2019 22:36 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 22:33 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On August 10 2019 22:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 09 2019 10:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 09 2019 10:16 Doodsmack wrote:On July 09 2019 05:24 xDaunt wrote:On July 09 2019 05:08 Artisreal wrote:On July 09 2019 04:26 xDaunt wrote:On July 09 2019 04:19 Simberto wrote:
So, i just read up on the Epstein background because i was so confused. Due to the certainty with which everyone spoke of the stuff Epstein had done, i was under the impression that he was already in prison, so i was really confused when he suddently got arrested. So i read stuff.
Everything you can read about Epstein is disgusting and shows how corrupt the US justice system is. We have a person who is a serial abuser of underage girls, everyone knows it, and he just gets away with it because he is rich and knows people. Just reading about it makes me incredibly angry. Why does that piece of shit get a plea deal that means he is immune to prosecution, and for the single case that he ends up spending time in prison, he goes to a luxury prison where he can hire his own guards. What the fuck is that shit?
How can you explain any of that to the people and there is not a revolt? There is not even any doubt that he did the things he is accused of, but he just gets away because he is rich and has powerful friends. There is simply no shame on behalf of the people who let him get away with it. It is disgusting, and people should be far more angry about it then they seem to be. Maybe i am just late to the party here because i just found out about it, and all the anger turned to resignation for other people already. But still...the whole thing is just so incredibly and obviously corrupt. Apparently one of the reasons why Epstein skated in 2008 was a deal that he cut with the FBI to provide information on something. As just an FYI, Mueller was the director back then. in what context is this fyi you added important? I just think that it's a potentially interesting facopinion.he apparently was on suicide watch ld be neither here nor there. If you follow all of the names across the various scandals on the left side of the aisle (or perhaps it's more fair to say the "swamp side of the aisle"), what you notice is that the same names keep popping up. I'm generally not one for conspiracy theories, but I do pay attention. Speaking of which, take a look at this paragraph from the DOJ's detention memo to the judge in the Epstein case: Finally, despite having been previously convicted of a sex offense involving an underage victim, the defendant has continued to maintain a vast trove of lewd photographs of young-looking women or girls in his Manhattan mansion. In a search of the New York Residence on the night of his arrest, on July 6-7, 2019, pursuant to judicially-authorized warrants, law enforcement officers discovered not only specific evidence consistent with victim recollections of the inside of the mansion, further strengthening the evidence of the conduct charged in the Indictment, but also at least hundreds—and perhaps thousands—of sexually suggestive photographs of fully- or partially-nude females. While these items were only seized this weekend and are still being reviewed, some of the nude or partially-nude photographs appear to be of underage girls, including at least one girl who, according to her counsel, was underage at the time the relevant photographs were taken. Additionally, some of the photographs referenced herein were discovered in a locked safe, in which law enforcement officers also found compact discs with hand-written labels including the following: “Young [Name] + [Name],” “Misc nudes 1,” and “Girl pics nude.” The defendant, a registered sex offender, is not reformed, he is not chastened, he is not repentant; rather, he is a continuing danger to the community and an individual who faces devastating evidence supporting deeply serious charges. Source, p. 9. "Young [Name] + [Name]." Perhaps this means that Epstein had a stash of photographs of various [important] persons doing illegal things with children? Perhaps the Fed seized a massive load of blackmail materials from Epstein? If you have any familiarity with Epstein's social circle and who is in it (and especially who visited his island), the importance of this sentence and the magnitude of the shitstorm that it portends become quite apparent. This is juicy stuff. It has long been reported that Epstein kept blackmail tapes on the public figures who had sex with his girls. And this case is being handled in the SDNY's public corruption unit, with "assistance" from the child sex crimes unit. Everyone on those tapes needs to go down in flames. I see this ending one of two ways for Epstein, either he gets off yet again, or he gets killed/dies mysteriously. But he's got too much on too many people to rot in prison. Called it. Epstein dies in jail cell because mysteriously he wasn't on suicide watch despite a previous attempt... Billionaire financier Jeffrey Epstein has died by suicide in his Manhattan jail early Saturday morning, three law enforcement officials told ABC News.
He was being held without bail at the Metropolitan Correctional Center awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy and sex trafficking. He pleaded not guilty to the charges, and a judge said he wouldn't face trial before June 2020.
He's accused of arranging to have sex with girls as young as age 14 in the early 2000s at Epstein's residences in Manhattan and Florida.
The 66-year-old was also hospitalized in July after he was found unresponsive in what appeared to be a possible suicide attempt. abc7.comIn a completely unshocking turn of events, none of his cohorts will be exposed and their secrets are safe for now. For those unfamiliar, strangling someone with a belt or whatever looks exactly like someone hanging themselves with a belt to people that don't give a shit. I think this has just pushed me over the edge. The entire system is fucked. Any ordinary person can look at it and say it's broken and the people at the top don't care and do whatever they want. The fail-safes designed to protect ordinary citizens such as the justice system are completely corrupted. At this point I fully expect the elites to start shooting off "undesirables" as soon as they can replace them with robots. In any sensible world this man should be on suicide watch 100 % of the time, with constant camera surveillance and like 10 different people guarding him so as to make bribing them more difficult. But officials "found him". How the fuck do you find him? There should be eyes on him at all times. A toddler could understand that. I hope someone develops an AI singularity that wipes out humanity, it would be worth it just to see the fear and smugness disappear from the elites faces as they realize that they too will die like everyone else. He apparently was on suicide watch since his last attempt. I guess it is not perfect. It is really shitty he took the easy way out I was really hoping he would turn on a bunch of other sleaze balls. There could be a conspiracy here, but lets not act like it is a fact that there was one please.
The guy’s entire business model was threatening the rich and powerful. That is a fact. People correctly extrapolated from that that they would take steps to stop him from talking. That prediction just came true.
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EPT
