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On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body?
Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other.
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On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco).
No matter what you think about cannabis there is scientific evidence that it can provide treatment for mental illness as effectively as prescription drugs but without the side effects.
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On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other.
Saying no drug is better than the other is just ignorance. What about caffiene, that is certainly a drug? What about the effects of alcohol intoxication, aren't those quite different from other drugs except barbiturates? But wait you don't even want to consider these things, because prohibition works so well? I don't know where you are from but the United States is a drug addicted country and to think otherwise is just ignoring reality.
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On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other.
That has nothing to do with weed though, that has to do with stupid people doing stupid things. The weed isn't killing anyone. That being said, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs should be illegal.
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On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco).
I will agree that I don't think any drugs should be legal, I only think marijuana should be legal because alcohol and tobacco are already legal, and are kept legal by tobacco and alcohol company funding. However, since it doesn't look to change considering their influence in politics, marijuana should be legalized just on the premise it is less harmful and more beneficial to society as a crop. Truth be told, prohibition doesn't work though, so what do you think about that?
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On September 05 2012 07:33 NonCorporeal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. That has nothing to do with weed though, that has to do with stupid people doing stupid things. The weed isn't killing anyone. That being said, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs should be illegal.
But it IS the weed that's doing the killing. Sure, stupid people will do stupid things, that will always be the case, no matter what's legal or not. It is, however, a well documented fact that driving while under the influence of weed negatively affects the driver (slowing down your reaction etc).
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On September 05 2012 07:37 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). I will agree that I don't think any drugs should be legal, I only think marijuana should be legal because alcohol and tobacco are already legal, and are kept legal by tobacco and alcohol company funding. However, since it doesn't look to change considering their influence in politics, marijuana should be legalized just on the premise it is less harmful and more beneficial to society as a crop. Truth be told, prohibition doesn't work though, so what do you think about that?
I'm well aware of the fact that prohibition doesn't really work in the real world, unfortunately. It looks good on paper, but when it comes down to it, most people will do whatever they want. Prohibiton or not. To me, though, that doesn't necessarily mean we should just give up.
Eventhough I'm highly against drugs of any kind, I do agree that keeping alcohol and tobacco legal and not weed, is double standards.
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On September 05 2012 07:38 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:33 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. That has nothing to do with weed though, that has to do with stupid people doing stupid things. The weed isn't killing anyone. That being said, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs should be illegal. But it IS the weed that's doing the killing. Sure, stupid people will do stupid things, that will always be the case, no matter what's legal or not. It is, however, a well documented fact that driving while under the influence of weed negatively affects the driver (slowing down your reaction etc).
So let me get this straight. According to you, people who decide to operate machinery while under the influence of substances that have been known to affect your ability to function "normally" are NOT at fault, its the SUBSTANCE'S fault. That's not an opinion of mine or some conclusion I came to, that's what you just said.
Drunk driving instances are not caused by alcohol. They are caused by people being stupid WITH alcohol. If you can't tell the difference, I suggest going back to school and ditching everything you were taught up until now because you seem to not be able to think correctly.
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On September 05 2012 07:38 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:33 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. That has nothing to do with weed though, that has to do with stupid people doing stupid things. The weed isn't killing anyone. That being said, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs should be illegal. But it IS the weed that's doing the killing. Sure, stupid people will do stupid things, that will always be the case, no matter what's legal or not. It is, however, a well documented fact that driving while under the influence of weed negatively affects the driver (slowing down your reaction etc).
With all due respect, that's as ignorant as saying "guns kill people." At the end of the day, it's the person behind the wheel making the decision, not the weed.
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On September 05 2012 07:45 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:37 deadmau wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). I will agree that I don't think any drugs should be legal, I only think marijuana should be legal because alcohol and tobacco are already legal, and are kept legal by tobacco and alcohol company funding. However, since it doesn't look to change considering their influence in politics, marijuana should be legalized just on the premise it is less harmful and more beneficial to society as a crop. Truth be told, prohibition doesn't work though, so what do you think about that? I'm well aware of the fact that prohibition doesn't really work in the real world, unfortunately. It looks good on paper, but when it comes down to it, most people will do whatever they want. Prohibiton or not. To me, though, that doesn't necessarily mean we should just give up. Eventhough I'm highly against drugs of any kind, I do agree that keeping alcohol and tobacco legal and not weed, is double standards.
I cannot go against the fight for legalizing marijuana, until the government tries to ban alcohol and tobacco as well. But as I said before, the corporate money coming in from Alcohol and Tobacco companies is too great and it corrupts the politicians, so the chances are slim. It's really unfortunate this double standard exists, as you said, but since I believe in educating people rather than misleading them with false propaganda, I can't agree with prohibition. But hey, if they're all banned then fine, it's fair, and we'd therefore have no mixed signals to children about what's safe and not safe, which is a good thing. Growing up my parents always believed it telling me the truth, rather than lying to me and sheltering me. From this, you learn from your parents, rather than idiots off the streets. Had my parents lied to me about drugs/substances/sex, I'd have gone off to college develop my own perceptions influenced by retards, and my life would be ruined. As human beings, we should have faith in solid education, rather than lies/fear spouting bullcrap.
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On September 05 2012 07:50 sCCrooked wrote:
So let me get this straight. According to you, people who decide to operate machinery while under the influence of substances that have been known to affect your ability to function "normally" are NOT at fault, its the SUBSTANCE'S fault. That's not an opinion of mine or some conclusion I came to, that's what you just said.
Drunk driving instances are not caused by alcohol. They are caused by people being stupid WITH alcohol. If you can't tell the difference, I suggest going back to school and ditching everything you were taught up until now because you seem to not be able to think correctly.
I re-read my post and I didn't really get my point across, my bad.
Ofc it 's people coupled WITH substances/alcohol that cause accidents. What I meant to say was, it's not just the stupid people all by themselves causing accidents. The affect the substance has on the person plays a major role. Remove the substance (be it weed or w/e) and the person in question is less likely to cause the accident. Not to say that sober people don't also crash their cars, but they are, again, less likely.
Also, ad hominem won't get you anywhere. I suggest you learn how to keep a civilized discussion civilized.
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On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other.
If you legalize weed you won't see the number of car accidents skyrocket. This is a prime example of somebody talking straight out of their butt.
Just because weed would become legal, doesn't mean that people would all of a sudden start driving while under the influence, that is incredibly ignorant and makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Its illegal to drive under the influence, you should be aware of this law. Alcohol is legal, yet its still illegal to drive under the influence, you should understand this.
I also think you being against drugs of any kind is pure ignorance as well. For example, things such as psilocybin mushrooms, lsd, ecstasy, have all been successfully integrated into some therapeutic sessions and have successfully changed peoples lives for the better.
LSD is what got me out of my depression, I think its sad that you are against something which I love so much and has helped me and a lot of other people. Being against something and not really knowing the benefits of such things is just really really lame of people.
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If someone buys marijuana illegally he has already gone against the law and driving under the influence is not that big of a step. If you legalize then you get government regulated marijuana complete with warning labels cautioning you to please not use while driving. It's just a theory of course, but it would not surprise me.
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On September 05 2012 08:10 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. If you legalize weed you won't see the number of car accidents skyrocket. This is a prime example of somebody talking straight out of their butt. Just because weed would become legal, doesn't mean that people would all of a sudden start driving while under the influence, that is incredibly ignorant and makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Its illegal to drive under the influence, you should be aware of this law. Alcohol is legal, yet its still illegal to drive under the influence, you should understand this.
I'm not defending him or anything, but he also said that alcohol and tobacco should be banned.
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On September 05 2012 08:10 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. If you legalize weed you won't see the number of car accidents skyrocket. This is a prime example of somebody talking straight out of their butt. Just because weed would become legal, doesn't mean that people would all of a sudden start driving while under the influence, that is incredibly ignorant and makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
I didn't actually say every person smoking weed would suddenly go on a rampage. What you're missing is that if you legalize weed, the number of people using it would increase (like alcohol) and thus the number of people under the influnce would also increase. I'm not claiming it would be an increase by say 20%, but even an increase by 1% is still a failure. Don't you agree?
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On September 05 2012 08:15 FrigolitH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 08:10 PanN wrote:On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. If you legalize weed you won't see the number of car accidents skyrocket. This is a prime example of somebody talking straight out of their butt. Just because weed would become legal, doesn't mean that people would all of a sudden start driving while under the influence, that is incredibly ignorant and makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I didn't actually say every person smoking weed would suddenly go on a rampage. What you're missing is that if you legalize weed, the number of people using it would increase (like alcohol) and thus the number of people under the influnce would also increase. I'm not claiming it would be an increase by say 20%, but even an increase by 1% is still a failure. Don't you agree?
Thats bullshit though, you can't prove that the numbers would go up. Also, with legalization you can introduce some safety discussions or something, you're just counting up the bad and racking it up instead of looking at the positives.
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On September 05 2012 08:10 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:30 FrigolitH wrote:On September 05 2012 07:20 NonCorporeal wrote:On September 05 2012 07:19 FrigolitH wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be legalized, that's just bizarre. Then again, I don't think any drug should be legal (including alcohol and tobacco). Why is it any of your business what someone else does with their own body? Cus it affects my life as well? Leglize weed and see the number of car accidents involving potheads skyrocket. If all the weed-smokers wanna create a paradise on some far away island, that's fine. Just don't include the rest of us. Again I'm not pro alcohol or tobacco either. Imo, no drug is better than the other. If you legalize weed you won't see the number of car accidents skyrocket. This is a prime example of somebody talking straight out of their butt. Just because weed would become legal, doesn't mean that people would all of a sudden start driving while under the influence, that is incredibly ignorant and makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
While I don't agree with Frigolith that legalization of weed will increase the number of accidents, I can't deny that weed has the possibility of impairing driving, because I understand the effects, and have felt it, and yes it can. Not to the degree of alcohol, but it can. I'm not sure where the perception that marijuana extremely impairs driving comes from though, because alcohol severely cripples driving ability and judgement, and the evidence of drunk drivers killing people is insurmountable.
Although the evidence against drunk driving is huge, alcohol remains legal. What if people drink, but never ever drove drunk (in fantasyland). Then we would have no fatalities due to drunk drivers. And what if smokers of marijuana never drove while high, which based on it's effects highly discourage a user to in the first place, then no one would ever die from impaired driving while high (again, fantasyland). On this basis, I'm not sure Frigolith's reasoning can hold, purely on this topic of impaired driving.
edit: Interesting point Frigolith. You say that if legalized that there could be a greater chance that there could be an accident due to the marijuana influenced driver being impaired. I'm not sure what to think here, because when it is legalized, I don't think it will encourage people to drive while high. But then again, there could be more users, so statistically there would be an increase in incidents, however small the fraction.
Once legalized, however, parents can finally feel a lot safer (not completely, just like alcohol), that some idiot dirt bag dealer won't be selling their kids weed. Alcohol is very hard to get for kids, so if weed is legalized it will be hard for those kids to get it. Remember dealers don't check ID, this point needs to be understood. This is where education comes in. The failure with alcohol is that those under the influence of alcohol are impaired in a way that lets them think they can do anything, and have overconfidence in there driving capacity, therefore it's such a dangerous drug to be impaired by while driving.
Not really sure how to argue this, but I guess no I don't legalization while cause more people to drive while high, but since it is legal, there may possible be an increase in users (adult, not children), statistically there MUST be some slight increase in traffic incidents related to marijuana. Hope this explains it well enough.
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On September 05 2012 08:16 PanN wrote:
Thats bullshit though, you can't prove that the numbers would go up. Also, with legalization you can introduce some safety discussions or something, you're just counting up the bad and racking it up instead of looking at the positives.
It's common sense. The more people using it, the larger the pool of potential "stupid people". I could also reverse your statement and say that you are just looking at the positives and ignoring the negative sides.
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On September 05 2012 05:09 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:05 TALegion wrote:On September 05 2012 02:38 Lann555 wrote:
And just to add to the actual topic:
There can be no logical argument for the criminalization of cannabis in a society that allows garbage like tobacco to be sold on every street-corner. The way I see it there are two positions that make sense:
-criminalize all drugs
-legalize cannabis
Im pro-legalization and I disagree with that. Tobacco and alcohol aren't legal because no one thinks that they're wrong, it's just that it's far too late to do anything about it. If it were possible to make them illegal without the side effects of black markets and organized crime, it would be done immediately. While you and I know that marijuana is not even on the same scale of danger as tobacco and alcohol, it is still thought of as being on the plane. Thinking of it from someone else's perspective, it would be like if alcohol was illegal and we were arguing for whether it should be legal. Even if they're barely even comparable in terms of actual side effects and dangers, some people believe in a straight-edge morality that doesn't want any drugs being legal at all. I'd say that comprises about 15% of all anti-legalization advocates. The other 85%, who likely live some level of unhealthy lifestyles, are just ignorant hypocrites. Tobacco and Alcohol wouldn't be made illegal, not in a million years. The government makes WAY too much damn money off both of them. Once the government sets up the infrastructure for taxing marijuana in the same fashion it will be legalized. You see this happening slowly as singular states open up dispensiaries.
America did make alcohol illegal. They had to undo it, though, because the market still existed and the business only made organized crime more powerful. It was the lesser of two evils to have it legal.
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EPT
