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On September 04 2012 23:40 Weson wrote:
I just cant stand people that are high in public. And the smell is just awful. So i would vote no. I dont care about what effects it has on the brain.
However, I think it should be legal for medicinal use.
There's been several of this type of response so far, but not a single one has responded to the point I've repeatedly brought up. Smoking MJ in stoner culture is actually going the way of the dinosaurs. A lot of the MJ users are very inclined towards "organic" products and holistic health. As such, many more are opting to cook it into food or brew it in tea. Vaporizers still allow you to inhale it if that's your preferred method but since its quite literally NOT smoke in any way shape or form, it carries none of the risks that smoking (not just tobacco but smoking ANYTHING) has.
Since there can be no smell and no smoke, would this make you slightly more inclined to see it legalized?
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On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms?
Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically...
I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself.
One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment.
Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that.
I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs!
***+ Show Spoiler +To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity!
Ok, let's talk weed again. There was a guy in here, who wanted to show us proof today, that weed seriously damages your brain. I'm so looking forward to this.  I bet it's from the monkey suffocation experiment.
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On September 04 2012 23:48 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:40 Weson wrote:
I just cant stand people that are high in public. And the smell is just awful. So i would vote no. I dont care about what effects it has on the brain.
However, I think it should be legal for medicinal use.
There's been several of this type of response so far, but not a single one has responded to the point I've repeatedly brought up. Smoking MJ in stoner culture is actually going the way of the dinosaurs. A lot of the MJ users are very inclined towards "organic" products and holistic health. As such, many more are opting to cook it into food or brew it in tea. Vaporizers still allow you to inhale it if that's your preferred method but since its quite literally NOT smoke in any way shape or form, it carries none of the risks that smoking (not just tobacco but smoking ANYTHING) has. Since there can be no smell and no smoke, would this make you slightly more inclined to see it legalized?
Then you had to smoke it from a vaporizer(if in public). Sure, why not. But, i cant see this working as people in general are lazy meat blobs that wouldn't care.
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On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:Ok, let's talk weed again. There was a guy in here, who wanted to show us proof today, that weed seriously damages your brain. I'm so looking forward to this. I bet it's from the monkey suffocation experiment.
I bet you we either never hear from him again or he just side-steps the question when we ask where his evidence is.
On September 04 2012 Weson wrote:
Then you had to smoke it from a vaporizer(if in public). Sure, why not. But, i cant see this working as people in general are lazy meat blobs that wouldn't care.
Sadly, I agree but it gives me a bit of hope that people might treat MJ once legalized much like they do tobacco and alcohol. People aren't out doing it in public like idiots and if they are doing it, its in designated areas for the mostpart.
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On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms? Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically... I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself. One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment. Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that. I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs! ***To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity!
I've heard that before, overdosing on hallucinogens because of additional consumption while under the influence. However, is that not an argument for legality? Any legal framework for allowing drugs should prevent you from acquiring too much of it, lest such accidents happen. You'd never have 20 trips of LSD around in that case. Even so, if you take 20x a working dose of any commonly used drugs you'd likely end up dead. I'm curious, how about your acquaintance's bad experiences with psychedelic mushrooms?
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On September 04 2012 23:48 sCCrooked wrote:Vaporizers still allow you to inhale it if that's your preferred method but since its quite literally NOT smoke in any way shape or form, it carries none of the risks that smoking (not just tobacco but smoking ANYTHING) has.
Since there can be no smell and no smoke, would this make you slightly more inclined to see it legalized?
Yeah, no. I've used vaporizers many times and they still smell. While it's no where near as strong smelling as joints or pipes (etc), it still smells.
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On September 04 2012 23:59 Grumbels wrote:
Even so, if you take 20x a working dose of any commonly used drugs you'd likely end up dead.
Except weed. Weed would never hurt a friend for doing 20000x a working dose
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On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms? Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically... I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself. One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment. Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that. I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs! *** + Show Spoiler +To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity! Ok, let's talk weed again. There was a guy in here, who wanted to show us proof today, that weed seriously damages your brain. I'm so looking forward to this. I bet it's from the monkey suffocation experiment.
well, kinda unfair to put the most important information in spoilers at the end of the post :p. did you know that you can legally buy shrooms in the netherlands?
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Yes.
Also, if you think it should be illegal because you don't like the smell, then I don't like the way your deodorant smells, it should be outlawed. Same amount of validity to my claim as to yours.
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On September 04 2012 23:59 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms? Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically... I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself. One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment. Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that. I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs! ***To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity! I've heard that before, overdosing on hallucinogens because of additional consumption while under the influence. However, is that not an argument for legality? Any legal framework for allowing drugs should prevent you from acquiring too much of it, lest such accidents happen. You'd never have 20 trips of LSD around in that case. Even so, if you take 20x a working dose of any commonly used drugs you'd likely end up dead. I'm curious, how about your acquaintance's bad experiences with psychedelic mushrooms?
Long story short, turned out he was schizophrenic. To me he was always a wierd guy to say the least, but in that age we didn't realise what was going on. He took all kinds of drugs, but a bad trip kind of pushed him over the edge. It was also not just shrooms to be fair, but a full out alcohol/weed/shroom self destruction binge (maybe amphetamines and medication were involved as well, dunno). He wasn't a close friend and i wasn't there personally.
Before he was just a little crazy, afterwards he was unbearable and out of this world, even after 6 months of therapy. The last time i heard of him, he tried to get drugs but none of the dealers wanted him around, because he freaked out everytime to a point where it got really scary. Even from just smoking weed. That was over ten years ago...
The shrooms aren't to blame maybe, but they will have played their role. Someone like this shouldn't take any mind altering stuff. Another friend of mine is "a bit" schizophrenic as well, but you don't see it unless he is drunk. Then he starts talking to himself and suddenly there's more than one person there and you never know who you're talking too. Scary as hell. Weed is fine for him though, he's even way calmer and seems really sane when high.
In the end, the human brain is a complicated thing and we know shit. Well at least not everything.
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Probably the main reason why weed is still illegal, despite being so popular, is that stoners as a collective just aren't motivated enough to get things changed. It's not even a taboo subject any more, and yet the outcry about being made criminals is little more than a whimper for those not actively looking to debate the subject.
Perhaps that is the most damning evidence of all.
(smoked daily for 6 years)
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On September 05 2012 00:02 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:48 sCCrooked wrote:Vaporizers still allow you to inhale it if that's your preferred method but since its quite literally NOT smoke in any way shape or form, it carries none of the risks that smoking (not just tobacco but smoking ANYTHING) has.
Since there can be no smell and no smoke, would this make you slightly more inclined to see it legalized? Yeah, no. I've used vaporizers many times and they still smell. While it's no where near as strong smelling as joints or pipes (etc), it still smells.
I dunno if you just used a low-grade vaporizer or something but vapor dissipates within seconds of being exhaled to the point where its not possible for the nose to react to the concentration of particles to create the sensation of smell. You might be able to smell it if its been on for a long time and had a LOT of weed pumped through it, but if you keep them clean and in good working order they should produce no more smell than a scented hand-wipe's residue would leave on your hands (and not nearly as long either).
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Don't criticize, Legalize.
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On September 05 2012 00:41 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 00:02 Sroobz wrote:On September 04 2012 23:48 sCCrooked wrote:Vaporizers still allow you to inhale it if that's your preferred method but since its quite literally NOT smoke in any way shape or form, it carries none of the risks that smoking (not just tobacco but smoking ANYTHING) has.
Since there can be no smell and no smoke, would this make you slightly more inclined to see it legalized? Yeah, no. I've used vaporizers many times and they still smell. While it's no where near as strong smelling as joints or pipes (etc), it still smells. I dunno if you just used a low-grade vaporizer or something but vapor dissipates within seconds of being exhaled to the point where its not possible for the nose to react to the concentration of particles to create the sensation of smell. You might be able to smell it if its been on for a long time and had a LOT of weed pumped through it, but if you keep them clean and in good working order they should produce no more smell than a scented hand-wipe's residue would leave on your hands (and not nearly as long either).
Well, maybe it's because I'm using a portable one (MFLB). I'm sure the vapes that people have in their homes (volcano, wallcharged box ones, etc) produce little to no smell because they vape to a perfect temp. But no one uses those types of vapes outside...
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Yes it should be legal. Anyone who thinks otherwise can't be my friend.
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On September 05 2012 00:39 Vorgrim wrote:
Probably the main reason why weed is still illegal, despite being so popular, is that stoners as a collective just aren't motivated enough to get things changed. It's not even a taboo subject any more, and yet the outcry about being made criminals is little more than a whimper for those not actively looking to debate the subject.
Perhaps that is the most damning evidence of all.
(smoked daily for 6 years)
They made it legal enough in enough places that most people don't really care since its basically legal in places like California. Yet there are still a lot of people (mostly minorities; prohibition is extremely racist) that have their lives ruined for possessing a naturally growing plant.
Another thing people seem to forget is that drugs weren't always illegal and there was a time you could buy heroin from a fucking sears catalog and yet society didn't collapse. Prohibition ruins more lives than any drug ever will in addition to being a massive drain on the economy, apathy and lack of knowledge is the only reason it still exists.
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On September 05 2012 00:10 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms? Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically... I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself. One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment. Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that. I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs! *** + Show Spoiler +To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity! Ok, let's talk weed again. There was a guy in here, who wanted to show us proof today, that weed seriously damages your brain. I'm so looking forward to this. I bet it's from the monkey suffocation experiment. well, kinda unfair to put the most important information in spoilers at the end of the post :p. did you know that you can legally buy shrooms in the netherlands?
I thought not any more, good to know thanks. Saw this documentary about the biggest shroom farm in the netherlands a while ago and they (2 brothers i think) were in some deep trouble with the law.
It's just in my personal history, the times someone got really fucked up and took some long term or even permanent damage from consumption, it was always hallucinogenic drugs being involved. Never them alone taken safe and resposibly and mental conditions were involved as well, but those experiences and stories left their mark on me.
As i said, most people i know who use them are fine, meaning they take them rather responsibly and no harm was ever done, apart from the little bad trip here and there. They also had their best drug experinces with them, but care should be taken.
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I feel like marijuana should be legal just because there is nothing bad about it. I don't smoke weed regularly like a lot of my friends, but I do know it's less harmful for people than both cigarettes and alcohol. It also has a multitude of medical properties that could be utilized for the benefit of us all.
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On September 04 2012 21:51 Rassy wrote:
"I'm sorry, but this is the biggest nonsense I've ever heard."
No unfortunatly its not nonsense , i do verry well understand the difference between alcohol and weed as i have a huge amount of experience with both of them.
I have seen the extremes of both and i even have experienced the extremes of both myself , and i feel i can safely say that weed is more dangerous then alcohol.
It is true that a real alcoholic is way worse of then someone who is heavily adicted to weed (as in smokes joints all day) but only a verry small amount of recreational alcohol users end up beeing a severe alcoholic.
Beeing adicted to weed is less damaging for your health then beeing adicted to alcohol is,that is true but it is equally damaging for your labour productivity and ability to work, maybe weed is even more harmfull in this aspect.
What is more important though is that a quiet high percentage of recreational weed users ends up beeing a problematic user,so problematic that the use limits the person ability to function in society
This is a way higher percentage then the percentage of alcohol users wich end up beeing a severe alcoholic to the point where it limits their ability to function (alcoholics can function quiet well in society)
Alcohol is an upper basicly, it makes your more active and socially engaged while weed is a downer, it makes you less active and socially engaged.
"If you smoke a lot of weed constantly (and with that I mean huge amount every day for years) you get a slow memory, and you become a slow person in most cases. Until you stop, and after a few weeks you're much improved already. Fuller recovery can take several months."
So:how is this not a bad thing ?
Another 10+ year toker here. I would just like to apologize for being such a slow and unproductive drain on society. I mean, what am I doing with my life? Here I am going to school to become an astrophysicist, god I'm so lazy and stupid. Maybe I should stop smoking pot and stop being inspired by the world around me and booz up more so can be "socially engaged" as I talk shit in my drunken meaningless ramblings.
Here is list of things I like to do when I am high: Tend to my yard, garden and bonsai's, pull out my telescope and do some stargazing, lay in my hammock and watch squires hunt for pears from my pear tree, swim, hike, play with legos (the only time I ever do that now of days), study in the late hours of the night after studying sober all day, and of course game out.
Here is a list of things I like to do when I am drunk: listen to live music, hang out with my friends, watch hockey, and of course game out. (lol, much short list)
The bottom line is that none of these things are beneficial to society, they only benefit me as an individual and allow me to enjoy more out of life. Just like I don't go to work or school drunk, I also don't go to work or school high. It is a matter of responsibility not drug use. A person has to know the appropriate time to use drugs. Inappropriate use of drugs is not the fault of the drug but the person using them. And since each person is different broad generalizations of such users is in its self inappropriate.
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On September 05 2012 01:27 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 00:10 beg wrote:On September 04 2012 23:51 r00ty wrote:On September 04 2012 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
How do all of you feel about the illegality of psychedelic mushrooms? Difficult topic. Most people i know are fine whith them, but i am not. I don't think they should be as available as alcohol or weed in the netherlands e.g. It's a powerful therapeutical substance and its influence may be fine for most but can also be really hurtful to people with certain mental problems/conditions. And may even cause them. As any mind altering substance basically... I know of two guys who had to receive heavy treatment and both were never the same again after taking hallucinogenic drugs (one with shrooms, one with LSD). Both of them had a history of mental problems though, which is the reason i'd never take them, because i know myself. One of them has to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution, at least he "can't function" any more in normal society. The incident happenend 15 years ago*** and he is still in stationary treatment. Thing about substances like this is, the effects don't go away that easily when you get a bad trip. Overdose on alcohol and you go vomit and go to sleep. That doesn't work with LSD and shrooms mostly... If you really "have to" experiment with stuff like this, have someone knowing and caring around for any worst case scenario. If you know you can deal with them and enjoy it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that. I have no first hand experience but i've been around. I overdosed on coke once, and a friend helped me to not freak out and not to do anything stupid. Best thing is stay away from the drugs! *** + Show Spoiler +To be fair, he kept around 20 trips of LSD for a dealer friend and took one. Got on a strange trip and proceeded to eat the rest like a pack of crisps. Bye bye sanity! Ok, let's talk weed again. There was a guy in here, who wanted to show us proof today, that weed seriously damages your brain. I'm so looking forward to this. I bet it's from the monkey suffocation experiment. well, kinda unfair to put the most important information in spoilers at the end of the post :p. did you know that you can legally buy shrooms in the netherlands? I thought not any more, good to know thanks. Saw this documentary about the biggest shroom farm in the netherlands a while ago and they (2 brothers i think) were in some deep trouble with the law. It's just in my personal history, the times someone got really fucked up and took some long term or even permanent damage from consumption, it was always hallucinogenic drugs being involved. Never them alone taken safe and resposibly and mental conditions were involved as well, but those experiences and stories left their mark on me. As i said, most people i know who use them are fine, meaning they take them rather responsibly and no harm was ever done, apart from the little bad trip here and there. They also had their best drug experinces with them, but care should be taken.
actually it's not the shrooms you can legally buy in holland, but the so called scletoria. they're still legal. just thought i'd clear that up :p
your view on hallucinogenics is certainly justified. but may i say that the scared people telling their stories left marks on me too :p. i cannot enjoy shrooming as much as before, cause i have so much more thoughts about things going wrong. meh
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EPT
