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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
"hey let's discuss the movie" HAHAHHA, discuss Minions. I chuckled way more than I should have, I'm not entirely sure how deep of a conversation you can have about a movie like that hehe. However I'll probably ask her if she wants to take a drink after, good advice!  | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On July 08 2015 05:03 LemOn wrote: Yep. Nobody knows how and when to make a move in the cinema if you haven't kissed/held hands before, it's a nerve wracking arena shrouded in mystery. As you don't have eye contact, don't talk to her and there are no natural body contact opportunities (besides the hand on hand cliche eww) it's like really hard to know when to make the move. On my date a year ago (2nd one too) I got the same idea, and thought I have to make a move. I was just brushing hair off her head like 10 times like an idiot, trying awkward touching etc, what a fail. The girl like really liked me so ended up sealing the deal anyways, but it took many hours longer than if I just sat there and enjoyed the movie. And did nothing. I'd personally go for the hug before cinema or just flat out tell her she looks gorgeous etc. so your intentions are clear when you go to it just sit there, enjoy the movie, leave your hand on her handrest and then make sure you go get drinks afterwards "hey let's discuss the movie" and proceed as usual Just whisper in her ear you're not wearing any underwear before you enter the theatre. She'll get the message. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On July 08 2015 05:13 killa_robot wrote: Just whisper in her ear you're not wearing any underwear before you enter the theatre. She'll get the message. And when she reaches down my pants I'll scream PSYCHE! | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On July 08 2015 05:13 killa_robot wrote: Just whisper in her ear you're not wearing any underwear before you enter the theatre. She'll get the message. Still probably better than nothing tho. Cinema dates suck. :D | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On July 08 2015 05:10 bloodwhore~ wrote: HAHAHHA, discuss Minions. I chuckled way more than I should have, I'm not entirely sure how deep of a conversation you can have about a movie like that hehe. However I'll probably ask her if she wants to take a drink after, good advice! who gives a damn. Don't ask. Just tell her something like "So this movie was so deep, with such tantalizing philosophical dialogues that we have no other option than to get a drink and discuss what it all meant right now, follow me" - you know, be playful, but firm at the same time. Should work if she's smart, and pray she understands sarcasm :D | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On July 08 2015 04:54 LemOn wrote: I think the idea is that you invest the time into reaching multiple partners, and then as you get to eventually know a partner that's suitable for you well (and that takes time) you focus more and more on that person until you eventually just have one partner, that you chose among many, and you work on that relationship wholeheartedly Even lots of PUAs eventually got married In practice in the past I've done this: (and a lot of guys do this I'm certain) - I've just got with one girl, invested in working on the relationship right from the get go, and then it took loads of time to realize it was dumb to work on it in the first place as we were a shitty match, and you just cannot know in the first few weeks with a person. And the way to circumvent this "yay I got a girlfriend" blindness is to simply date more women at start until you meet and get to know the right one I was more wondering about the idea of "3 dates and no touching/kissing so far? No chance, better test your luck elsewhere", not about the fact that you can pursue multiple women that show potential at the same time(up until a certain level of course). | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
If on the other hand you are not a horny fucker like me and you truly don't want to kiss a girls/touch them until you get to know them very well then yeah - you are being your authentic self and there shouldn't be any issues with it. Although you will get how this is being hard to understand to me - I'm looking for personality match and mutual attraction as well, so the girls I go on multiple dates with I will probably want to touch/kiss after several hours of talking to them, and not going for it just means I was either fearful and didn't go after what I wanted, or the attraction wasn't there. It's not about "no chance with her" but finding out if we are a match for each other or not, and the sooner I find out we are not the faster i find the right girl. | ||
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On July 08 2015 05:28 waffelz wrote: I was more wondering about the idea of "3 dates and no touching/kissing so far? No chance, better test your luck elsewhere", not about the fact that you can pursue multiple women that show potential at the same time(up until a certain level of course). Just read a few of your previous posts and while it's quite common for people to date several people at once I've never been fond of it. I've no problems moving on but I feel pretty weird trying to go on dates with three people concurrently. I like to focus on one person until I've decided whether they're suitable and then go onto dating someone else. Just do whatever works for you. However after reading your giant monologue about how you are a nice guy with a lowish libido looking for a soul mate I think you should view the advice/thoughts of people on this thread as viewpoints rather than hard rules. It's not to say that you have to get physical or kiss within three dates but it's just a better approach in their experience (and mine as well). Consider it a bit like fashion in the way that everyone has different dress-sense. If I dress classy in a tailor-made suit the majority of the population will consider it 'better dressed' compared to if I just wear ripped jeans and a t-shirt. It's not to say that either approach is necessarily good or bad but socially more people will find the tailor-made suit more stylish. However, there are still going to be people that think the ripped jeans and t-shirt are a look they prefer. But just because most people find the tailor-made suit more stylish doesn't mean that the girl you are trying to attract prefers it. She might like a guy who turns up in torn jeans and a t-shirt but if I had no prior information and had to choose either option to wear to a date - I would go with the suit because it provides a better outcome for the majority of the population. What I'm trying to say in a really round about way is that I think people in this thread give general advice from their experiences. And most often they apply it because it is advantageous if applied to the majority of girls that they pursue. You have to decide whether that approach is suitable for your personality, your age, and most importantly whoever you are trying to chase. | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On July 08 2015 14:14 Yoz wrote: Just read a few of your previous posts and while it's quite common for people to date several people at once I've never been fond of it. I've no problems moving on but I feel pretty weird trying to go on dates with three people concurrently. I like to focus on one person until I've decided whether they're suitable and then go onto dating someone else. Just do whatever works for you. However after reading your giant monologue about how you are a nice guy with a lowish libido looking for a soul mate I think you should view the advice/thoughts of people on this thread as viewpoints rather than hard rules. It's not to say that you have to get physical or kiss within three dates but it's just a better approach in their experience (and mine as well). Well stop right there. My "monologue" is not supposed to be a "look at me, the good guy". Almost everybody believes he's the good guy and I have no intention of bragging on an online forum where I mainly post because of the anonymity. I tried to poorly phrase some of the problems and diferences in my behaviour compared to the usual. It doesnt mean I have a low libido, just because I dont think immediately "I want to bang that chick" as soon as I see a pretty women on the street/dont participate in "she has a nice ass"-discussions. For me, this is about respect but if you dont care/view this diferently thats also fine with me since its the general behaviour. I just didnt want to phrase it that way, because most of the time people feel affected by the very notion, that you find this disrespectful. So much for the part I can explain. When I am in a relationship and its gotten to that point, to phrase it with LemOns words, I am a horny fucker though. Dont fully understand this, but that is how it works for me. If you feel like this is brag, maybe you should change a little bit towards it, as it seems to be bragworthy to you  On July 08 2015 14:14 Yoz wrote: Consider it a bit like fashion in the way that everyone has different dress-sense. If I dress classy in a tailor-made suit the majority of the population will consider it 'better dressed' compared to if I just wear ripped jeans and a t-shirt. It's not to say that either approach is necessarily good or bad but socially more people will find the tailor-made suit more stylish. However, there are still going to be people that think the ripped jeans and t-shirt are a look they prefer. But just because most people find the tailor-made suit more stylish doesn't mean that the girl you are trying to attract prefers it. She might like a guy who turns up in torn jeans and a t-shirt but if I had no prior information and had to choose either option to wear to a date - I would go with the suit because it provides a better outcome for the majority of the population. What I'm trying to say in a really round about way is that I think people in this thread give general advice from their experiences. And most often they apply it because it is advantageous if applied to the majority of girls that they pursue. You have to decide whether that approach is suitable for your personality, your age, and most importantly whoever you are trying to chase. Nice explanation, even though what you are trying to say was already clear to me. I was more trying to get an idea about how big the groups of women that would be prone towards either methods are. Since I am less exposed to women at this point in my life, my way of doing things becomes less likely to be succesfull, if my assumptions where right and therefore I might have to adapt, thats all I was trying to say. | ||
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unsaeglich
260 Posts
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On July 08 2015 16:15 waffelz wrote: Well stop right there. My "monologue" is not supposed to be a "look at me, the good guy". Almost everybody believes he's the good guy and I have no intention of bragging on an online forum where I mainly post because of the anonymity. I tried to poorly phrase some of the problems and diferences in my behaviour compared to the usual. It doesnt mean I have a low libido, just because I dont think immediately "I want to bang that chick" as soon as I see a pretty women on the street/dont participate in "she has a nice ass"-discussions. For me, this is about respect but if you dont care/view this diferently thats also fine with me since its the general behaviour. I just didnt want to phrase it that way, because most of the time people feel affected by the very notion, that you find this disrespectful. So much for the part I can explain. When I am in a relationship and its gotten to that point, to phrase it with LemOns words, I am a horny fucker though. Dont fully understand this, but that is how it works for me. If you feel like this is brag, maybe you should change a little bit towards it, as it seems to be bragworthy to you I'm going to sound like a dick but I read your monologue a bit of a whinge post where you were saying how you are a nice guy with the purest of pure motives and that it baffled you slightly that the dating world seems to operate differently to how you view things. I'm not really in any position to be envious/jealous because I'm happily in a relationship which by all accounts looks like it's headed towards marriage. It took a few failed relationships to figure out what I wanted but I think we're on the right track now =P On July 08 2015 16:15 waffelz wrote: Nice explanation, even though what you are trying to say was already clear to me. I was more trying to get an idea about how big the groups of women that would be prone towards either methods are. Since I am less exposed to women at this point in my life, my way of doing things becomes less likely to be succesfull, if my assumptions where right and therefore I might have to adapt, thats all I was trying to say. It hardly matters how large each group of women is because it comes down to how the breakdown occurs in your particular target market. However I would imagine the older you get the earlier the expectation of intimacy. Also there's other factors such as a girls probably being more experimental/promiscuous around late university stages (at least in Australia). Why not ask your female friends what their view on this would be? Ask them how many dates before they think a guy should kiss a girl and see what they say? It might give you a better idea of the social norm in your culture, at your age, amongst your peers? | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Birthday present ideas? I'll be dating the girl for 4.5 months at that point, she turns 21 On 3rd date she (as usual) didn't know where we're going, and then realized Ikea's close. So she stopped abruptly started bobbing her head and scrabbling with her leg wildly saying "Oh OOOh, can we go to Ikea, can we CAN WE?" I've called her horsie ever since here and there - tell her jokingly to not get startled when we are going down a hill etc,. I've never given her flowers/presents whatsoever. Plan is to do as much stuff of her perfect day she told me about some 5 weeks back (that I wrote down). And give her Either these - high quality silver earrings, bought in store so I can ask for nice packaging ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/8a0389bf6fb0363b751b6b30c91527e5.png) Or this: A bit Cheaper rhodium Swarovski Elements crystals, not sure how nice the box will be as they are from an online retailer ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/9bb4f046e5be16a22b66b8fe3a852fbd.png) And that's pretty much it - no flowers, I want to buy her flowers when I feel like it so it's spontaneous/unexpected since I told her I don't buy girls flowers. I'll just take her for steak which she loves, and pay for the activity based day. 1) Which one of the two would you go for( Or both?) 2) Can I get away with no flowers - she specifically told me she likes tulips in week4, but I'd rather prefer that to be spontaneous, "just because" gesture down the line. Edit: hahah oh my god these are awesome ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/aed44cfd430ce3449ae8faf457edae06.png) | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On July 08 2015 18:21 Yoz wrote: I'm going to sound like a dick but I read your monologue a bit of a whinge post where you were saying how you are a nice guy with the purest of pure motives and that it baffled you slightly that the dating world seems to operate differently to how you view things. I'm not really in any position to be envious/jealous because I'm happily in a relationship which by all accounts looks like it's headed towards marriage. It took a few failed relationships to figure out what I wanted but I think we're on the right track now =P Congratulations, I really hope it works out for you .Dont worry about sounding like a dick, I am used to that, especially when trying to explain myself in another language. Just think about it like this: Just like you seem to have problems to understand how I can be that way, just because I am and not because of some bullshit reasons/to sound pure and cool, I cant understand the almost immediate desire to get physical with someone. Simply two different ways to view things without any judgement but with some occacional confusement on my part On July 08 2015 18:21 Yoz wrote: It hardly matters how large each group of women is because it comes down to how the breakdown occurs in your particular target market. However I would imagine the older you get the earlier the expectation of intimacy. Also there's other factors such as a girls probably being more experimental/promiscuous around late university stages (at least in Australia). Why not ask your female friends what their view on this would be? Ask them how many dates before they think a guy should kiss a girl and see what they say? It might give you a better idea of the social norm in your culture, at your age, amongst your peers? The female friends I can seriously discuss such things with are unfortunately very far from being the usual norm since most of them come from foreign cultures and are heavily influenced by that. Also, they would be a small sample size. The ealier expectation of intimacy you talked about is exactly what making me ask that question in the first place. The number of women do matter, bekause if a very high percentage is prone to move on if nothing happens after a certain amount of time, the chance of succeding with being as slow as I am is vastly lower, especially if you arent surrounded by women. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
On July 08 2015 18:26 LemOn wrote: + Show Spoiler + Okay guys Birthday present ideas? I'll be dating the girl for 4.5 months at that point, she turns 21 On 3rd date she (as usual) didn't know where we're going, and then realized Ikea's close. So she stopped abruptly started bobbing her head and scrabbling with her leg wildly saying "Oh OOOh, can we go to Ikea, can we CAN WE?" I've called her horsie ever since here and there - tell her jokingly to not get startled when we are going down a hill etc,. I've never given her flowers/presents whatsoever. Plan is to do as much stuff of her perfect day she told me about some 5 weeks back (that I wrote down). And give her Either these - high quality silver earrings, bought in store so I can ask for nice packaging Or this: A bit Cheaper rhodium Swarovski Elements crystals, not sure how nice the box will be as they are from an online retailer And that's pretty much it - no flowers, I want to buy her flowers when I feel like it so it's spontaneous/unexpected since I told her I don't buy girls flowers. I'll just take her for steak which she loves, and pay for the activity based day. 1) Which one of the two would you go for( Or both?) 2) Can I get away with no flowers - she specifically told me she likes tulips in week4, but I'd rather prefer that to be spontaneous, "just because" gesture down the line. i dont think it really matters which one you pick out of those 2 its obviously thoughtful since youve incorporated the inside joke into the present somehow. jewellery is a win for 9/10 girls i myself would probably lean a little more to the necklace, just because i dont think actually wearing horse earrings will look very good lol. but its the thought that counts anyway also id definitely not buy flowers for her this time if youre planning one of those surprise moments later on. your surprise present will leave a much bigger impression when its not warranted as opposed to you getting it for her now | ||
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On July 08 2015 18:26 LemOn wrote: 1) Which one of the two would you go for 2) Can I get away with no flowers - she specifically told me she likes tulips in week4, but I'd rather prefer that to be spontaneous, just because gesture down the line. 1. I'm personally more a fan of necklaces for nice gifts because girls can the same nice necklace daily. Whereas I'm not sure if girls wear the same earrings day in day out. However in this case I would go the earrings 100% because I f'ing hate Swarovski and their designs. You might also want to check that she isn't currently attached to any jewelery at the moment (i.e. a necklace from a best friend) that you're competing with. My girlfriend had a necklace she bought five years ago and mentioned that she was thinking of finding a new pendant to replace it as her daily jewelery 2. Sure. You're already getting her a nice present and you've only been dating 4.5 months. I've never dated a girl that would get angry because she didn't receive flowers with her jewelery, steak, and activity. | ||
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Milkymilky
Netherlands1 Post
So my brother started seeing this girl a few months ago. Since then I also started talking with this girl a lot more often. We knew each other before but never really got to know each other. She is totally into my brother and even quit smoking because my brother hates smoking. She is ready to commit to a relationship. My brother on the other hand wants to be free and just hook up whenever he feels like. He even told me (as brothers sometimes do) that she isn’t the only girl he is seeing at the moment. This bothers me to the point where I guess it is obvious I have feelings for her. I mean, I enjoy talking and spending time with her. I certainly disapprove of my brother his choices, but I also can’t come in between him and this girl (even when he isn’t serious). I love my brother and wouldn’t do anything to ruin our bond. So I decided for myself that I just have to move on. The problem is that I live together with my brother... so it makes it hard to move on when I get confronted with the situation so often. Any advice? | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On July 08 2015 19:02 Milkymilky wrote: So I have been lurking these forums for so long and never posted anything before. Recently I took an interest in this thread because of my own situation. So my brother started seeing this girl a few months ago. Since then I also started talking with this girl a lot more often. We knew each other before but never really got to know each other. She is totally into my brother and even quit smoking because my brother hates smoking. She is ready to commit to a relationship. My brother on the other hand wants to be free and just hook up whenever he feels like. He even told me (as brothers sometimes do) that she isn’t the only girl he is seeing at the moment. This bothers me to the point where I guess it is obvious I have feelings for her. I mean, I enjoy talking and spending time with her. I certainly disapprove of my brother his choices, but I also can’t come in between him and this girl (even when he isn’t serious). I love my brother and wouldn’t do anything to ruin our bond. So I decided for myself that I just have to move on. The problem is that I live together with my brother... so it makes it hard to move on when I get confronted with the situation so often. Any advice? Talk to your brother about the situation? Maybe he's gonna break it to her because of that, since he already seem to have an alternative. Or he breaks up with his alternative. If you dont want to make a move behind is back, you could also confront him that you going to tell her eventually. In each case, I would suggest to talk to you brother, if you explain to him first why you are going to tell her, it will most likely make him get less angry about you. Or you decide that it is not worth it and try to deal with it. | ||
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On July 08 2015 18:45 waffelz wrote: Congratulations, I really hope it works out for you .Dont worry about sounding like a dick, I am used to that, especially when trying to explain myself in another language. Just think about it like this: Just like you seem to have problems to understand how I can be that way, just because I am and not because of some bullshit reasons/to sound pure and cool, I cant understand the almost immediate desire to get physical with someone. Simply two different ways to view things without any judgement but with some occacional confusement on my part Thanks. It seems to be going well so far. All that's left is to get married and convince her to let me raise progamer kids =D I've no idea who you are or how old you are. And perhaps this is an overshare on the internet but a few years ago I discussed with a close female friend how interesting it is how markedly our viewpoints had changed: ~18: Cannot understand why people engage in casual sex. Gross. ~21: Can understand why people engage in casual sex. Couldn't do it myself. ~23: Can understand why people engage in casual sex. Could probably do it myself. I've just picked arbitrary ages. You get the point though. It went from completely not understanding it to understanding and wanting it. On July 08 2015 18:45 waffelz wrote: The female friends I can seriously discuss such things with are unfortunately very far from being the usual norm since most of them come from foreign cultures and are heavily influenced by that. Also, they would be a small sample size. The ealier expectation of intimacy you talked about is exactly what making me ask that question in the first place. The number of women do matter, bekause if a very high percentage is prone to move on if nothing happens after a certain amount of time, the chance of succeding with being as slow as I am is vastly lower, especially if you arent surrounded by women. I've no real statistical basis for saying this but I'd imagine overall you're in a much better position attempting to hug/kiss a girl within three dates than leaving intimacy out for three dates. I'd imagine around date five is the point where you are really starting to hit a wall and the girl is questioning why nothing has happened. Of course like everything as long as you explain yourself properly you can probably avoid that requirement. I'm curious though, based on your experience: a) At what point would you want to kiss the girl? b) At what point would you be comfortable kissing the girl? | ||
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