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On May 09 2011 12:32 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:25 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2011 12:17 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 11:43 slyboogie wrote:
The quintessential Derrick Rose. 12-32, 34 points, 11 free throws(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and 10 assists. He is a great mystery. Textbook Rose in the playoffs. I personally don't see the buzz around Chicago. Their regular season record was grossly inflated by their joke of a division. They are a solid team, but I'm not sure Derrick Rose is a complete enough player to take them all the way just yet. 32 shots in a game is a shocking number. its actually not shocking when the team gives you the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock remaining. Yeah 0 for 6 from Korver in the first half. Him and Deng couldn't get open in the second. Its a bit annoying when people point out Rose's low FG percentage. He is the only player in the top ten in scoring and assists. An absolute workhorse.
That stat doesn't mean shit and I wished people stopped quoting it. He's a damn Point Guard obviously he's going to be up there. His shot selection has been bad. Point blank. His teammates screw up but he also screws up. His FG% for the last 3 months has been downright atrocious. Thing is he'll get better but right now you can't make excuses. He has 2 scoring options that have been scoring without him for their careers in Boozer and Deng. He can do better.
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On May 09 2011 12:32 Judicator wrote:
Honestly, Pau and Odom both played pretty poorly this series and to some extent the last. There's nothing wrong with that criticism, you can't really jump on the fans for saying that just because Odom and Gasol are improvements over Parker and Brown. It's also unfair to literally put all the critics in the same boat.
Pau WAS soft. Odom was not too bad. My point wasn't necessarily the legitimacy of the criticism but legitimacy of the critics. Part of the problem, I suppose, is that I live in Los Angeles (as a Clipper fan, Clipper Time!) and I do admire the Lakers; naturally, I get annoyed at the number of fair weather fans and the garbage I have to hear about the Lakers when they fail to live up to lofty expectations. Some teams have never won a championship. Some teams struggle to even get into the playoffs. Anyways, I understand why I might have come off raving, sorry to project real life frustrations onto the forum <---not sarcastic.
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United States4471 Posts
On May 09 2011 12:42 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:32 Judicator wrote:
Honestly, Pau and Odom both played pretty poorly this series and to some extent the last. There's nothing wrong with that criticism, you can't really jump on the fans for saying that just because Odom and Gasol are improvements over Parker and Brown. It's also unfair to literally put all the critics in the same boat. Pau WAS soft. Odom was not too bad. My point wasn't necessarily the legitimacy of the criticism but legitimacy of the critics. Part of the problem, I suppose, is that I live in Los Angeles (as a Clipper fan, Clipper Time!) and I do admire the Lakers; naturally, I get annoyed at the number of fair weather fans and the garbage I have to hear about the Lakers when they fail to live up to lofty expectations. Some teams have never won a championship. Some teams struggle to even get into the playoffs. Anyways, I understand why I might have come off raving, sorry to project real life frustrations onto the forum <---not sarcastic.
1. Yeah Clippers! I just pray that Gordon and Griffin keep growing and can stay healthy for the rest of their promising careers. I really like this roster as a group hard-working young guys who can win on any given night.
2. I sympathize with the frustration of being a basketball fan in LA. There are a lot of idiot fair weather fans who like to come out of nowhere and refer to the Lakers as "we" when they're winning, and then are the first to cast stones at "them" when something goes wrong.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37087 Posts
Disappointing from Lakers got to say....
AMAZING by the Mavs. If they go all the way to finals, I will not be surprised.... sick team....
Hawks..... as much as I hate u guys for taking out ORL, you guys are seriously giving CHI some competition.... keep it up......
Grizzlies, if you can take down Durant and Thunder, I will do Oo for like 20 minutes and then, :D
GOGO NBA PLAYOFFS!
Quick question, why do I see so much Heat hate? Is it cause of LeBron?
Oh, and like I do in every post, if you guys could do the polls in page 12 that'd be great. HOWEVER, I am not pushing it anymore.... mainly because of the results we are having and the fact that those polls are outdated. So vote, don't vote, entirely up to you. Much appreciation if you do, if you don't then w/e, at the very least thank you for reading my post.
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On May 09 2011 12:41 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:32 scaban84 wrote:On May 09 2011 12:25 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2011 12:17 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 11:43 slyboogie wrote:
The quintessential Derrick Rose. 12-32, 34 points, 11 free throws(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and 10 assists. He is a great mystery. Textbook Rose in the playoffs. I personally don't see the buzz around Chicago. Their regular season record was grossly inflated by their joke of a division. They are a solid team, but I'm not sure Derrick Rose is a complete enough player to take them all the way just yet. 32 shots in a game is a shocking number. its actually not shocking when the team gives you the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock remaining. Yeah 0 for 6 from Korver in the first half. Him and Deng couldn't get open in the second. Its a bit annoying when people point out Rose's low FG percentage. He is the only player in the top ten in scoring and assists. An absolute workhorse. That stat doesn't mean shit and I wished people stopped quoting it. He's a damn Point Guard obviously he's going to be up there. His shot selection has been bad. Point blank. His teammates screw up but he also screws up. His FG% for the last 3 months has been downright atrocious. Thing is he'll get better but right now you can't make excuses. He has 2 scoring options that have been scoring without him for their careers in Boozer and Deng. He can do better.
Was going to post pretty much the exact same thing. Brute numbers mean quite little in basketball. Russell Westbrook is averaging 22 points a game this playoffs, but I wouldn't want his ass near the Mavericks.
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On May 09 2011 06:54 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:53 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:On May 09 2011 06:39 WitchDoctor wrote:
Mav vs Miami Finals
Miami sweep Mav 4-0
Called it first here Mav vs Miami Finals Mavs in 6, after Miami going 2-0 and lead by 13 pts / 6 mins to go in the third game. called it here first ! :D That, and Nowitsky shooting 30 free throws a game.
amen to that, lololol
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On May 09 2011 12:52 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:42 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 12:32 Judicator wrote:
Honestly, Pau and Odom both played pretty poorly this series and to some extent the last. There's nothing wrong with that criticism, you can't really jump on the fans for saying that just because Odom and Gasol are improvements over Parker and Brown. It's also unfair to literally put all the critics in the same boat. Pau WAS soft. Odom was not too bad. My point wasn't necessarily the legitimacy of the criticism but legitimacy of the critics. Part of the problem, I suppose, is that I live in Los Angeles (as a Clipper fan, Clipper Time!) and I do admire the Lakers; naturally, I get annoyed at the number of fair weather fans and the garbage I have to hear about the Lakers when they fail to live up to lofty expectations. Some teams have never won a championship. Some teams struggle to even get into the playoffs. Anyways, I understand why I might have come off raving, sorry to project real life frustrations onto the forum <---not sarcastic. 1. Yeah Clippers! I just pray that Gordon and Griffin keep growing and can stay healthy for the rest of their promising careers. I really like this roster as a group hard-working young guys who can win on any given night. 2. I sympathize with the frustration of being a basketball fan in LA. There are a lot of idiot fair weather fans who like to come out of nowhere and refer to the Lakers as "we" when they're winning, and then are the first to cast stones at "them" when something goes wrong.
@1: yeah, I'm glad Aminu wasn't traded and Bledsoe showed flashes. It's a really good looking base if the players continue to develop. Just real quick for the people who don't know: Mo Williams/Bledsoe, Eric EJ Gordon, ?????, Blake Griffin, Jordan/Kaman+2012 1st rounder and Al-Farouq Aminu. We are not ready.
@2: That's so well said..I wish I could have just said that to begin with.
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On May 09 2011 11:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 11:24 igotmyown wrote:On May 09 2011 09:17 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 08:46 Stoids wrote:I made the brutal mistake of going to ESPN boards after the game. I forgot what the internet is like outside of Teamliquid..... never again. Edit: Also Laker fans, please remember one of Bill Simmon's rules of being a true fan. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions I'm sorry but I disagree. Teams with "true fans" languish in mediocrity/badness. The Cubs have plenty of "true fans", the Steelers have "good fans." Fans should be informed, know the game, and save criticism for when it is deserved. No that's only true for entitled fans. Red Sox lose for 86 years, they could miss the playoffs the year after 2004 and they'd still feel content. New Orleans, they probably don't mind their exit. Giants, similar, they're "happy to be there" as champions. Championships in sports are often a lucky run where everything just clicks together, and it's got to be more miraculous than a baby being born. Lakers fans feel entitled, like they're supposed to win every year. Like being mad because if Shaq stayed, they'd have won all the championships of the 2000s. You don't hear that sort of nonsense from tortured fanbases. To be fair, Lakers fans expect championships when they have some reason to believe they should. I assure you that Lakers fans did not expect championships during the Van Exel/Elden Campbell years or the Smush/Kwame years. It was only when the Lakers traded for Gasol and everyone, not only Lakers fans, thought that they had a good shot at winning the whole thing (which they almost did). After that, the championship aspirations and expectations were understandable as they were one of the top teams in the league by everyone's estimation. Lakers fans are definitely spoiled, but fans for any team would feel the same way under the same circumstances, i.e. great team that are legitimate contenders. Weren't Dallas fans disappointed when they lost to the Heat in the Finals? Weren't Celtics fans disappointed when they lost in the Finals? I have yet to see a fanbase that goes into a Finals series expecting to lose, or being happy with coming up second. Lakers fans often expect championships because the Lakers are often championship contenders. Fans for any team expect the same if their team were in a similar situation.
No Lakers fan just suck. There were Dallas Media at games 1 and 2 of the Lakers for this series and recorded audio of the fans at the game. People in Lakers gear saying Kobe sucks, Booing Pau off the floor, showing up late and leaving early at a playoff game. Never standing to cheer to get the Lakers into the game. Go back and look at those Laker home PLAYOFF games, they just sat there like a king waiting for their jester to entertain them.
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thats right mavs, THIS IS OUR YEAR!!!!!
As excellent as jason terry and stojackovic were shooting today, i was most impressed with Dirk and JJ barea. At no point did Dirk ever try to force himself in on that game, they doubleteamed him all game and he made great passes, shot a high percentage, played basically a perfect game. A real superstar that plays the right way.
JJ barea I just have so much respect for, he ran the offense really well and set a great uptempo pace, made got in the lane and made great passes. Being 5-10 in the NBA going up against gasol and bynum in the lane, the degree of difficulty on everything he does is just astounding. One of the toughest and most talented (considering his height) players in the league. Both of those guys were the reason for so many of those 3s.
PS, jason terry is the real sixth man of the year, everyone can see that now. go mavs
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On May 09 2011 12:41 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:32 scaban84 wrote:On May 09 2011 12:25 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2011 12:17 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 11:43 slyboogie wrote:
The quintessential Derrick Rose. 12-32, 34 points, 11 free throws(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and 10 assists. He is a great mystery. Textbook Rose in the playoffs. I personally don't see the buzz around Chicago. Their regular season record was grossly inflated by their joke of a division. They are a solid team, but I'm not sure Derrick Rose is a complete enough player to take them all the way just yet. 32 shots in a game is a shocking number. its actually not shocking when the team gives you the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock remaining. Yeah 0 for 6 from Korver in the first half. Him and Deng couldn't get open in the second. Its a bit annoying when people point out Rose's low FG percentage. He is the only player in the top ten in scoring and assists. An absolute workhorse. That stat doesn't mean shit and I wished people stopped quoting it. He's a damn Point Guard obviously he's going to be up there. His shot selection has been bad. Point blank. His teammates screw up but he also screws up. His FG% for the last 3 months has been downright atrocious. Thing is he'll get better but right now you can't make excuses. He has 2 scoring options that have been scoring without him for their careers in Boozer and Deng. He can do better.
I suppose you think that rebound stats don't mean shit either because Noah is a "damn" center. So Noah being in the top 3 in rebounding doesn't mean "shit". Every team has a different system. Rose driving and putting up a floater on so many plays works because of Noah's offensive rebounding. It works and thats how the Bulls have managed to pull off a sick season despite Rose's low FG percentage. How many plays have finished with Rose driving, drawing in defenders and either A) missing a floater, Noah rebounds and dishes to a perimeter shooter or B) Rose throwing it back to the arc. This system works. The perimeter shooters just need to get open and knock down their shots.
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On May 09 2011 12:27 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:09 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 11:51 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 11:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 09 2011 11:24 igotmyown wrote:On May 09 2011 09:17 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 08:46 Stoids wrote:I made the brutal mistake of going to ESPN boards after the game. I forgot what the internet is like outside of Teamliquid..... never again. Edit: Also Laker fans, please remember one of Bill Simmon's rules of being a true fan. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions I'm sorry but I disagree. Teams with "true fans" languish in mediocrity/badness. The Cubs have plenty of "true fans", the Steelers have "good fans." Fans should be informed, know the game, and save criticism for when it is deserved. No that's only true for entitled fans. Red Sox lose for 86 years, they could miss the playoffs the year after 2004 and they'd still feel content. New Orleans, they probably don't mind their exit. Giants, similar, they're "happy to be there" as champions. Championships in sports are often a lucky run where everything just clicks together, and it's got to be more miraculous than a baby being born. Lakers fans feel entitled, like they're supposed to win every year. Like being mad because if Shaq stayed, they'd have won all the championships of the 2000s. You don't hear that sort of nonsense from tortured fanbases. To be fair, Lakers fans expect championships when they have some reason to believe they should. I assure you that Lakers fans did not expect championships during the Van Exel/Elden Campbell years or the Smush/Kwame years. It was only when the Lakers traded for Gasol and everyone, not only Lakers fans, thought that they had a good shot at winning the whole thing (which they almost did). After that, the championship aspirations and expectations were understandable as they were one of the top teams in the league by everyone's estimation. Lakers fans are definitely spoiled, but fans for any team would feel the same way under the same circumstances, i.e. great team that are legitimate contenders. Weren't Dallas fans disappointed when they lost to the Heat in the Finals? Weren't Celtics fans disappointed when they lost in the Finals? I have yet to see a fanbase that goes into a Finals series expecting to lose, or being happy with coming up second. Lakers fans often expect championships because the Lakers are often championship contenders. Fans for any team expect the same if their team were in a similar situation. The problem is, most of those "fans" weren't there for the 2005-2006 Smush Parker era. They weren't around for the pre-Kobe/Shaq era. Laker fans are fair weather fans that jump on a Los Angeles bandwagon and go to see a winner. They (again, I know I'm being overly broad...I'm aware there are true devoted fans) have no investment, no attachment, no sentiment. These "fans" never sweat with Kobe or tasted the ash in their mouths when the Lakers lost to the Suns in '06. They didn't even stand during game 2 when the Lakers needed them. Ugh, I will say, many Laker fans on this sit, you included, are insightful and seem to be real fans but in general....Ugh. If fans actually came out for those crappy teams what incentive would teams have to be good? The Pirates have sucked for years and the reason is that the owners have calculated that sucking is profitable for them. Wait. Are you being serious? The Pirates suck because they haven't drafted competently for two decades. You are, erroneously, associating payroll with victories. But there are still loyal Pirates fans, who believe that Andrew McCutchen will be better than Justin Upton. That a rotation of Correia, Karston and Malholm can get them to .500. Those fans have every right to rend their clothes and scream about the incompetence of their management. If people don't want to see a shitty product, then don't come. But they are watching the Los Angeles Lakers; they have no ground to stand on when they bitch and moan about "Pau's toughness" or "Odom's assertiveness." Shut up. You didn't stand with the team in the past, you aren't a fan. You're a guy who got nice playoff tickets cause you work in finance at Raytheon or Northrop Grunnam. (You is not targeted at Clutz but the "hypothetical" you.)
I'm just saying that it is the "entitled" fanbases that have winning franchises. You can argue chicken or the egg all day, but I really think that fanbases that demand excellence get it way more than those that do not.
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On May 09 2011 13:25 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:27 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 12:09 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 11:51 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 11:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 09 2011 11:24 igotmyown wrote:On May 09 2011 09:17 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 08:46 Stoids wrote:I made the brutal mistake of going to ESPN boards after the game. I forgot what the internet is like outside of Teamliquid..... never again. Edit: Also Laker fans, please remember one of Bill Simmon's rules of being a true fan. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions I'm sorry but I disagree. Teams with "true fans" languish in mediocrity/badness. The Cubs have plenty of "true fans", the Steelers have "good fans." Fans should be informed, know the game, and save criticism for when it is deserved. No that's only true for entitled fans. Red Sox lose for 86 years, they could miss the playoffs the year after 2004 and they'd still feel content. New Orleans, they probably don't mind their exit. Giants, similar, they're "happy to be there" as champions. Championships in sports are often a lucky run where everything just clicks together, and it's got to be more miraculous than a baby being born. Lakers fans feel entitled, like they're supposed to win every year. Like being mad because if Shaq stayed, they'd have won all the championships of the 2000s. You don't hear that sort of nonsense from tortured fanbases. To be fair, Lakers fans expect championships when they have some reason to believe they should. I assure you that Lakers fans did not expect championships during the Van Exel/Elden Campbell years or the Smush/Kwame years. It was only when the Lakers traded for Gasol and everyone, not only Lakers fans, thought that they had a good shot at winning the whole thing (which they almost did). After that, the championship aspirations and expectations were understandable as they were one of the top teams in the league by everyone's estimation. Lakers fans are definitely spoiled, but fans for any team would feel the same way under the same circumstances, i.e. great team that are legitimate contenders. Weren't Dallas fans disappointed when they lost to the Heat in the Finals? Weren't Celtics fans disappointed when they lost in the Finals? I have yet to see a fanbase that goes into a Finals series expecting to lose, or being happy with coming up second. Lakers fans often expect championships because the Lakers are often championship contenders. Fans for any team expect the same if their team were in a similar situation. The problem is, most of those "fans" weren't there for the 2005-2006 Smush Parker era. They weren't around for the pre-Kobe/Shaq era. Laker fans are fair weather fans that jump on a Los Angeles bandwagon and go to see a winner. They (again, I know I'm being overly broad...I'm aware there are true devoted fans) have no investment, no attachment, no sentiment. These "fans" never sweat with Kobe or tasted the ash in their mouths when the Lakers lost to the Suns in '06. They didn't even stand during game 2 when the Lakers needed them. Ugh, I will say, many Laker fans on this sit, you included, are insightful and seem to be real fans but in general....Ugh. If fans actually came out for those crappy teams what incentive would teams have to be good? The Pirates have sucked for years and the reason is that the owners have calculated that sucking is profitable for them. Wait. Are you being serious? The Pirates suck because they haven't drafted competently for two decades. You are, erroneously, associating payroll with victories. But there are still loyal Pirates fans, who believe that Andrew McCutchen will be better than Justin Upton. That a rotation of Correia, Karston and Malholm can get them to .500. Those fans have every right to rend their clothes and scream about the incompetence of their management. If people don't want to see a shitty product, then don't come. But they are watching the Los Angeles Lakers; they have no ground to stand on when they bitch and moan about "Pau's toughness" or "Odom's assertiveness." Shut up. You didn't stand with the team in the past, you aren't a fan. You're a guy who got nice playoff tickets cause you work in finance at Raytheon or Northrop Grunnam. (You is not targeted at Clutz but the "hypothetical" you.) I'm just saying that it is the "entitled" fanbases that have winning franchises. You can argue chicken or the egg all day, but I really think that fanbases that demand excellence get it way more than those that do not.
If you think that the fans have any significant effect on how a team approaches the game, you are kidding yourself. Jerry Buss didn't head straight to the Laker boards and say "damn, they are mad, better go get Dwight Howard." The Laker fans have not contributed to championships in any way.
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On May 09 2011 13:14 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 12:41 Ace wrote:On May 09 2011 12:32 scaban84 wrote:On May 09 2011 12:25 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2011 12:17 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 11:43 slyboogie wrote:
The quintessential Derrick Rose. 12-32, 34 points, 11 free throws(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and 10 assists. He is a great mystery. Textbook Rose in the playoffs. I personally don't see the buzz around Chicago. Their regular season record was grossly inflated by their joke of a division. They are a solid team, but I'm not sure Derrick Rose is a complete enough player to take them all the way just yet. 32 shots in a game is a shocking number. its actually not shocking when the team gives you the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock remaining. Yeah 0 for 6 from Korver in the first half. Him and Deng couldn't get open in the second. Its a bit annoying when people point out Rose's low FG percentage. He is the only player in the top ten in scoring and assists. An absolute workhorse. That stat doesn't mean shit and I wished people stopped quoting it. He's a damn Point Guard obviously he's going to be up there. His shot selection has been bad. Point blank. His teammates screw up but he also screws up. His FG% for the last 3 months has been downright atrocious. Thing is he'll get better but right now you can't make excuses. He has 2 scoring options that have been scoring without him for their careers in Boozer and Deng. He can do better. I suppose you think that rebound stats don't mean shit either because Noah is a "damn" center. So Noah being in the top 3 in rebounding doesn't mean "shit". Every team has a different system. Rose driving and putting up a floater on so many plays works because of Noah's offensive rebounding. It works and thats how the Bulls have managed to pull off a sick season despite Rose's low FG percentage. How many plays have finished with Rose driving, drawing in defenders and either A) missing a floater, Noah rebounds and dishes to a perimeter shooter or B) Rose throwing it back to the arc. This system works. The perimeter shooters just need to get open and knock down their shots.
Noah is a good rebounder and has a high rebound rate. Of course he's a good rebounder. But it's only so high. Rose driving and taking floaters isn't itself a bad shot. But doing it with 3 guys around you when you see the trap a mile away is.
As for the bolded you are just wrong. What works is the Bull's defense that allows them to trade possessions. They can tolerate it because they always have a chance to stop the other team from scoring. When it doesn't work - aka their defense can't keep up with trading possessions - they often lose.
The Bull's offense is "ok". But it's not elite and it's not really a system that works very well. Against the better defensive teams of the league they have struggled. Saying something like the perimeter shooters just need to knock down open shots is laughable. If it was that easy then why doesn't anyone else run their offense like Chicago does? Because it's a very hard path to winning and can only be done with an elite defense.
Understand the game before you post. That's all I ask.
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On May 09 2011 13:34 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 13:14 scaban84 wrote:On May 09 2011 12:41 Ace wrote:On May 09 2011 12:32 scaban84 wrote:On May 09 2011 12:25 icystorage wrote:On May 09 2011 12:17 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 11:43 slyboogie wrote:
The quintessential Derrick Rose. 12-32, 34 points, 11 free throws(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and 10 assists. He is a great mystery. Textbook Rose in the playoffs. I personally don't see the buzz around Chicago. Their regular season record was grossly inflated by their joke of a division. They are a solid team, but I'm not sure Derrick Rose is a complete enough player to take them all the way just yet. 32 shots in a game is a shocking number. its actually not shocking when the team gives you the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock remaining. Yeah 0 for 6 from Korver in the first half. Him and Deng couldn't get open in the second. Its a bit annoying when people point out Rose's low FG percentage. He is the only player in the top ten in scoring and assists. An absolute workhorse. That stat doesn't mean shit and I wished people stopped quoting it. He's a damn Point Guard obviously he's going to be up there. His shot selection has been bad. Point blank. His teammates screw up but he also screws up. His FG% for the last 3 months has been downright atrocious. Thing is he'll get better but right now you can't make excuses. He has 2 scoring options that have been scoring without him for their careers in Boozer and Deng. He can do better. I suppose you think that rebound stats don't mean shit either because Noah is a "damn" center. So Noah being in the top 3 in rebounding doesn't mean "shit". Every team has a different system. Rose driving and putting up a floater on so many plays works because of Noah's offensive rebounding. It works and thats how the Bulls have managed to pull off a sick season despite Rose's low FG percentage. How many plays have finished with Rose driving, drawing in defenders and either A) missing a floater, Noah rebounds and dishes to a perimeter shooter or B) Rose throwing it back to the arc. This system works. The perimeter shooters just need to get open and knock down their shots. Noah is a good rebounder and has a high rebound rate. Of course he's a good rebounder. But it's only so high. Rose driving and taking floaters isn't itself a bad shot. But doing it with 3 guys around you when you see the trap a mile away is. As for the bolded you are just wrong. What works is the Bull's defense that allows them to trade possessions. They can tolerate it because they always have a chance to stop the other team from scoring. When it doesn't work - aka their defense can't keep up with trading possessions - they often lose. The Bull's offense is "ok". But it's not elite and it's not really a system that works very well. Against the better defensive teams of the league they have struggled. Saying something like the perimeter shooters just need to knock down open shots is laughable. If it was that easy then why doesn't anyone else run their offense like Chicago does? Because it's a very hard path to winning and can only be done with an elite defense. Understand the game before you post. That's all I ask.
What you've quoted in bold is simply fact. You can simply look Rose's volume this season. He is one of 3 players in the past 30 years to score 2,000 points and put up 600 assists in one season. You and many other "efficiency" experts do not understand the game. You don't understand how hard it is to play isolation, drive and split the defenders and create opportunities for your teammates.
What you said about the Bulls defense is obvious. The offense is not elite, but all the blame on offense should not be put on Rose.
Go to the basketball court and get your game on before you post.
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Claiming that he's scored 2,000 points and 600 assists as if it's some ridiculous rare feat that makes you unstoppable is laughable. I'm no efficiency expert but it does matter. If you shoot 20 shots a game and only hit 8 well then you're not exactly irreplaceable when their are guys out there that can do it better. I don't even blame "all of Chicago's offensive problems" on Rose. He's clearly good but he takes the major share of it because guess what - he's the Point Guard.
I do play a lot of basketball though. Thanks for asking.
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Josh Smith just needs to never shoot the basketball ever, ever again
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He is one of 3 players in the past 30 years to score 2,000 points and put up 600 assists in one season. You and many other "efficiency" experts do not understand the game.
So did Allen Iverson, but intelligent basketball fans weren't pegging him as a godsend capable of leading a championship team. None of us here are arguing that Derrick Rose is not an elite player, we are simply stating that the adoration and love he is getting may be a little over the top.
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On May 09 2011 13:31 Stoids wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 13:25 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 12:27 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 12:09 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 11:51 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 11:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 09 2011 11:24 igotmyown wrote:On May 09 2011 09:17 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 08:46 Stoids wrote:I made the brutal mistake of going to ESPN boards after the game. I forgot what the internet is like outside of Teamliquid..... never again. Edit: Also Laker fans, please remember one of Bill Simmon's rules of being a true fan. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions I'm sorry but I disagree. Teams with "true fans" languish in mediocrity/badness. The Cubs have plenty of "true fans", the Steelers have "good fans." Fans should be informed, know the game, and save criticism for when it is deserved. No that's only true for entitled fans. Red Sox lose for 86 years, they could miss the playoffs the year after 2004 and they'd still feel content. New Orleans, they probably don't mind their exit. Giants, similar, they're "happy to be there" as champions. Championships in sports are often a lucky run where everything just clicks together, and it's got to be more miraculous than a baby being born. Lakers fans feel entitled, like they're supposed to win every year. Like being mad because if Shaq stayed, they'd have won all the championships of the 2000s. You don't hear that sort of nonsense from tortured fanbases. To be fair, Lakers fans expect championships when they have some reason to believe they should. I assure you that Lakers fans did not expect championships during the Van Exel/Elden Campbell years or the Smush/Kwame years. It was only when the Lakers traded for Gasol and everyone, not only Lakers fans, thought that they had a good shot at winning the whole thing (which they almost did). After that, the championship aspirations and expectations were understandable as they were one of the top teams in the league by everyone's estimation. Lakers fans are definitely spoiled, but fans for any team would feel the same way under the same circumstances, i.e. great team that are legitimate contenders. Weren't Dallas fans disappointed when they lost to the Heat in the Finals? Weren't Celtics fans disappointed when they lost in the Finals? I have yet to see a fanbase that goes into a Finals series expecting to lose, or being happy with coming up second. Lakers fans often expect championships because the Lakers are often championship contenders. Fans for any team expect the same if their team were in a similar situation. The problem is, most of those "fans" weren't there for the 2005-2006 Smush Parker era. They weren't around for the pre-Kobe/Shaq era. Laker fans are fair weather fans that jump on a Los Angeles bandwagon and go to see a winner. They (again, I know I'm being overly broad...I'm aware there are true devoted fans) have no investment, no attachment, no sentiment. These "fans" never sweat with Kobe or tasted the ash in their mouths when the Lakers lost to the Suns in '06. They didn't even stand during game 2 when the Lakers needed them. Ugh, I will say, many Laker fans on this sit, you included, are insightful and seem to be real fans but in general....Ugh. If fans actually came out for those crappy teams what incentive would teams have to be good? The Pirates have sucked for years and the reason is that the owners have calculated that sucking is profitable for them. Wait. Are you being serious? The Pirates suck because they haven't drafted competently for two decades. You are, erroneously, associating payroll with victories. But there are still loyal Pirates fans, who believe that Andrew McCutchen will be better than Justin Upton. That a rotation of Correia, Karston and Malholm can get them to .500. Those fans have every right to rend their clothes and scream about the incompetence of their management. If people don't want to see a shitty product, then don't come. But they are watching the Los Angeles Lakers; they have no ground to stand on when they bitch and moan about "Pau's toughness" or "Odom's assertiveness." Shut up. You didn't stand with the team in the past, you aren't a fan. You're a guy who got nice playoff tickets cause you work in finance at Raytheon or Northrop Grunnam. (You is not targeted at Clutz but the "hypothetical" you.) I'm just saying that it is the "entitled" fanbases that have winning franchises. You can argue chicken or the egg all day, but I really think that fanbases that demand excellence get it way more than those that do not. If you think that the fans have any significant effect on how a team approaches the game, you are kidding yourself. Jerry Buss didn't head straight to the Laker boards and say "damn, they are mad, better go get Dwight Howard." The Laker fans have not contributed to championships in any way.
I'm sorry, but that can't be true, your statement is a violation of the laws of economics
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On May 09 2011 13:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 13:31 Stoids wrote:On May 09 2011 13:25 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 12:27 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 12:09 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 11:51 slyboogie wrote:On May 09 2011 11:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 09 2011 11:24 igotmyown wrote:On May 09 2011 09:17 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2011 08:46 Stoids wrote:
I made the brutal mistake of going to ESPN boards after the game. I forgot what the internet is like outside of Teamliquid..... never again.
Edit: Also Laker fans, please remember one of Bill Simmon's rules of being a true fan.
[quote] I'm sorry but I disagree. Teams with "true fans" languish in mediocrity/badness. The Cubs have plenty of "true fans", the Steelers have "good fans." Fans should be informed, know the game, and save criticism for when it is deserved. No that's only true for entitled fans. Red Sox lose for 86 years, they could miss the playoffs the year after 2004 and they'd still feel content. New Orleans, they probably don't mind their exit. Giants, similar, they're "happy to be there" as champions. Championships in sports are often a lucky run where everything just clicks together, and it's got to be more miraculous than a baby being born. Lakers fans feel entitled, like they're supposed to win every year. Like being mad because if Shaq stayed, they'd have won all the championships of the 2000s. You don't hear that sort of nonsense from tortured fanbases. To be fair, Lakers fans expect championships when they have some reason to believe they should. I assure you that Lakers fans did not expect championships during the Van Exel/Elden Campbell years or the Smush/Kwame years. It was only when the Lakers traded for Gasol and everyone, not only Lakers fans, thought that they had a good shot at winning the whole thing (which they almost did). After that, the championship aspirations and expectations were understandable as they were one of the top teams in the league by everyone's estimation. Lakers fans are definitely spoiled, but fans for any team would feel the same way under the same circumstances, i.e. great team that are legitimate contenders. Weren't Dallas fans disappointed when they lost to the Heat in the Finals? Weren't Celtics fans disappointed when they lost in the Finals? I have yet to see a fanbase that goes into a Finals series expecting to lose, or being happy with coming up second. Lakers fans often expect championships because the Lakers are often championship contenders. Fans for any team expect the same if their team were in a similar situation. The problem is, most of those "fans" weren't there for the 2005-2006 Smush Parker era. They weren't around for the pre-Kobe/Shaq era. Laker fans are fair weather fans that jump on a Los Angeles bandwagon and go to see a winner. They (again, I know I'm being overly broad...I'm aware there are true devoted fans) have no investment, no attachment, no sentiment. These "fans" never sweat with Kobe or tasted the ash in their mouths when the Lakers lost to the Suns in '06. They didn't even stand during game 2 when the Lakers needed them. Ugh, I will say, many Laker fans on this sit, you included, are insightful and seem to be real fans but in general....Ugh. If fans actually came out for those crappy teams what incentive would teams have to be good? The Pirates have sucked for years and the reason is that the owners have calculated that sucking is profitable for them. Wait. Are you being serious? The Pirates suck because they haven't drafted competently for two decades. You are, erroneously, associating payroll with victories. But there are still loyal Pirates fans, who believe that Andrew McCutchen will be better than Justin Upton. That a rotation of Correia, Karston and Malholm can get them to .500. Those fans have every right to rend their clothes and scream about the incompetence of their management. If people don't want to see a shitty product, then don't come. But they are watching the Los Angeles Lakers; they have no ground to stand on when they bitch and moan about "Pau's toughness" or "Odom's assertiveness." Shut up. You didn't stand with the team in the past, you aren't a fan. You're a guy who got nice playoff tickets cause you work in finance at Raytheon or Northrop Grunnam. (You is not targeted at Clutz but the "hypothetical" you.) I'm just saying that it is the "entitled" fanbases that have winning franchises. You can argue chicken or the egg all day, but I really think that fanbases that demand excellence get it way more than those that do not. If you think that the fans have any significant effect on how a team approaches the game, you are kidding yourself. Jerry Buss didn't head straight to the Laker boards and say "damn, they are mad, better go get Dwight Howard." The Laker fans have not contributed to championships in any way. I'm sorry, but that can't be true, your statement is a violation of the laws of economics
I don't see how you can actually believe that teams win because they have entitled fans. Entitlement requires precedent, and precedent in sports is a consequence of winning. There is no question of the chicken or the egg, because it is quite apparent which one comes first.
There are a select few Lakers fans who I call true fans, but sadly their knowledge and loyalty is overshadowed by the silence of the Staples Center when things don't go their way.
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EPT
