On March 08 2011 15:43 BalliSLife wrote: I think the Heat will be fine when it comes to playoff time despite all the statistics on how bad they do vs elite teams, it's not like they are lacking any experience individually, they know what it takes and hopefully Bosh will become a factor by that time.
No one is questioning the Heat's individual talent, but it's the on-court chemistry and team experience that is lacking. I'm not counting the Heat out just yet, but they'll need to figure out how to play with one another, especially on the defensive end, in order to find postseason success.
On March 08 2011 15:43 BalliSLife wrote: I think the Heat will be fine when it comes to playoff time despite all the statistics on how bad they do vs elite teams, it's not like they are lacking any experience individually, they know what it takes and hopefully Bosh will become a factor by that time.
No one is questioning the Heat's individual talent, but it's the on-court chemistry and team experience that is lacking. I'm not counting the Heat out just yet, but they'll need to figure out how to play with one another, especially on the defensive end, in order to find postseason success.
You're right. And I do believe the chemistry restarted a little with Bibby now in the lineup.
Their on court chemistry isn't really that bad. A lot of their recent woes are being blown way out of proportion. 5-12 against great teams/lost to Chicago 3 times by a combined 8 points and never dominated by anyone except once vs San Antonio and the Celtics.
Seriously nothing about them shows they are in trouble.
They're in trouble in that they're not the winning enough to demonstrate that they're the team to beat. People are expecting more Christmas games.
Or like Lebron's Cavs the last two years, you expect them to win even vs good teams (especially at home), and you're surprised when they lose.
It's kind of like it Lebron turned out to be an allstar but not an MVP candidate. He could still beat you, but it wouldn't be a huge victory if he didn't.
On March 08 2011 17:12 igotmyown wrote: They're in trouble in that they're not the winning enough to demonstrate that they're the team to beat. People are expecting more Christmas games.
Or like Lebron's Cavs the last two years, you expect them to win even vs good teams (especially at home), and you're surprised when they lose.
It's kind of like it Lebron turned out to be an allstar but not an MVP candidate. He could still beat you, but it wouldn't be a huge victory if he didn't.
Lebron is absolutely an MVP candidate. He is probably the MVP, he has practically no competition at the guard spots, except for his own teammate and everyone's favorite Derrick Rose.
Rose scores 24.6 points per game at a 44% click. He hits 1.5 threes at a 33% click. He gets 4.3 rebounds and 8.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
Lebron scores 26.2 points per game at a 49% click. He hits 1.2 threes at a 33% click. He gets 7.5 rebounds and 7.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
These are "box score" stats, without looking at analytics - which heavily favor Lebron, who has 2 and a half more Win Shares, a way higher True Shooting percentage and a much high PER (whatever that's worth.) I feel like I'm pooping all over Derrick Rose but for all the MVP attention that he gets, he does not measure up to Lebron James.
On March 08 2011 17:12 igotmyown wrote: They're in trouble in that they're not the winning enough to demonstrate that they're the team to beat. People are expecting more Christmas games.
Or like Lebron's Cavs the last two years, you expect them to win even vs good teams (especially at home), and you're surprised when they lose.
It's kind of like it Lebron turned out to be an allstar but not an MVP candidate. He could still beat you, but it wouldn't be a huge victory if he didn't.
Lebron is absolutely an MVP candidate. He is probably the MVP, he has practically no competition at the guard spots, except for his own teammate and everyone's favorite Derrick Rose.
Rose scores 24.6 points per game at a 44% click. He hits 1.5 threes at a 33% click. He gets 4.3 rebounds and 8.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
Lebron scores 26.2 points per game at a 49% click. He hits 1.2 threes at a 33% click. He gets 7.5 rebounds and 7.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
These are "box score" stats, without looking at analytics - which heavily favor Lebron, who has 2 and a half more Win Shares, a way higher True Shooting percentage and a much high PER (whatever that's worth.) I feel like I'm pooping all over Derrick Rose but for all the MVP attention that he gets, he does not measure up to Lebron James.
You can say all that, and thats including stats. But Rose is 3-0 vs lebrons heat this season, and if you just watched there last game, who was the best player that game? Who came through and made the most plays? Rose.
@slyboogie: The reason that D-Rose is getting so much MVP attention is that his team has done better than expected and the media always gives more attention to the new kid on the block than the same old guy. But when the MVP voting comes around, I expect Lebron to get another MVP award.
Lebron's simply the better player and with better numbers. He's a stronger defensive player as well. This is probably just me, but I think that Dwight Howard deserves the MVP more than Rose this season. Unfortunately, defense doesn't get as much attention as it should.
I really don't say this to piss anyone off, but moomoo, if you pull up the splits, Lebron was only in two of those games and he vastly outperformed Rose in the first (02-26-2011) and only really outperformed Rose in the second (03-06-2011). If you want to give Rose the credit for those wins, you are disregarding the contributions made that day by Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer. The fact is, as an individual player, Lebron James is better than Derrick Rose.
I don't mean to say you don't have a valid point. "We play to win the game," say Herm Edwards and Derrick Rose's team has won every matchup against the Heat.
On March 08 2011 17:12 igotmyown wrote: They're in trouble in that they're not the winning enough to demonstrate that they're the team to beat. People are expecting more Christmas games.
Or like Lebron's Cavs the last two years, you expect them to win even vs good teams (especially at home), and you're surprised when they lose.
It's kind of like it Lebron turned out to be an allstar but not an MVP candidate. He could still beat you, but it wouldn't be a huge victory if he didn't.
Lebron is absolutely an MVP candidate. He is probably the MVP, he has practically no competition at the guard spots, except for his own teammate and everyone's favorite Derrick Rose.
Rose scores 24.6 points per game at a 44% click. He hits 1.5 threes at a 33% click. He gets 4.3 rebounds and 8.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
Lebron scores 26.2 points per game at a 49% click. He hits 1.2 threes at a 33% click. He gets 7.5 rebounds and 7.1 assists per game. He commits 3.6 turnovers a game.
These are "box score" stats, without looking at analytics - which heavily favor Lebron, who has 2 and a half more Win Shares, a way higher True Shooting percentage and a much high PER (whatever that's worth.) I feel like I'm pooping all over Derrick Rose but for all the MVP attention that he gets, he does not measure up to Lebron James.
You can say all that, and thats including stats. But Rose is 3-0 vs lebrons heat this season, and if you just watched there last game, who was the best player that game? Who came through and made the most plays? Rose.
Stop. Rose was not better than Lebron in that game. 1 on 1 in his last possession Rose waved off his team and tried to break Wade down - he ended up shooting an air ball.
Rose is actually 2-0 vs Lebron since Lebron was out for the first game in Chicago. Rose isn't even close to being MVP level but media hype trumps common sense as always.
It's one thing to hate Lebron but don't come in here and make shit up. At least try and make a damn sensible argument.
@igotmyown: They aren't winning enough? They are 3rd best in the East, have had only iirc 3 blowout losses, 8 losses in the Wade was injured era or whatever you want to call it and have been in every game since except the SA game. Over reaction is a bitch. This is the same thing I got on you guys for last year when you were counting the Celtics out and very few people listened to actual reason on why you need to look at HOW and WHY a team is losing.
Have the Heat been dominated by all of these teams?
Are they executing terrible on these last possession shots?
I mean we just had someone claim Derrick Rose outplayed Lebron in a game where Lebron tore that whole team apart the first half and Rose wasn't even a factor at the end. Hate the Heat all you want but at least be fair in your judgments and back it up with some evidence.
Majority of Heat's losses were decided by 3 points or less. Still a loss but you gotta give them a chance to learn how to close out games considering they got two of the most gifted players in the league.
Ace, I'm sensing some frustration, but I agree with everything you just said, haha.
People are so quick to dethrone Lebron as the MVP just because of the whole "The Decision" free agency fiasco, and how hated the Heat are now. The MVP award is for the best player that season, not for who has the best personality, or who has the most fans. Sure, Rose is a likable guy and Lebron has a cockiness that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And sure, if I had to pick a team to win a best of 7 series, I'd pick the Bulls over the Heat. But when push comes to shove, I'd take Lebron over D-Rose any day.
Not everyone may believe in the statistics that are used for sports, but it's at least something that is quantifiable. Lebron's stats certainly are much, MUCH better. Slyboogie, you mentioned win-shares and Lebron is a top 3 defensive win-share player this season, behind Dwight and Garnett.
@moomoo: The Bulls are 3-0 against the Heat not solely because of Rose. By your logic, Rajon Rondo, who lead his Celtics to a 3-0 record against the Heat, is a better player than Lebron? I think not.
I do get frustrated because year after year we get some outlandish shit posted that I expect to find on ESPN boards - not teamliquid where the level of discussion is much higher and people are expected to do research. Like I can understand if you don't like certain players or teams but it comes across much better when it's posted with numbers, articles, videos - some substance.
On a side note Michael Wilbon is really starting to annoy me. Lebatard pointed out on his show that Rose went 5 for 21 in a game and Wilbon straight up said "your looking at the wrong thing". He also said Rose is the MVP as always.
When asked if Chicago could win the chip he said no.
Sometimes I really wonder why these people are labeled as experts.
On March 08 2011 18:18 Ace wrote: I do get frustrated because year after year we get some outlandish shit posted that I expect to find on ESPN boards - not teamliquid where the level of discussion is much higher and people are expected to do research. Like I can understand if you don't like certain players or teams but it comes across much better when it's posted with numbers, articles, videos - some substance.
Well you do have to remember this is primarily a Starcraft site so there will be a lot of ignorant posts. I agree with you though that a lot of discussion is just thrown out without knowing about what they're talking about.
People react emotionally to the Heat. Bosh alone is a PR calamity and most of it is self inflicted. It in no way makes him a bad player - in fact he had a decent season. It does make him hard to like for any non-heat fan though. Same thing with the LeBron. I think few people would draft someone ahead of LBJ if they owned a team today. It's easy to talk about him "underachieving" in newspapers though. The heat are pretty much what most serious people expected out of their first season: good but not quite deep enough for the celtics or lakers. The Bulls and the Spurs turned out better than expected, so they are also ahead of the heat right now. Maybe the Mavs too.
I still think the Heat are a very dangerous teams, even if they arent winning these close games, and are blowing leads, the Celtics did the exact same thing last year and they were by far the best team in the playoffs. Its like dismissing the Lakers because they are behind the mavs and spurs in the rankings, only a fool would do so. For now Boston/West dont have to worry about chicago and miami, we will see who comes out of that side of the bracket, until then they just need to focus on their current opponents.
Im sure there will be at least 1 epic heat game this post season. :D
On March 08 2011 18:18 Ace wrote: On a side note Michael Wilbon is really starting to annoy me.
It sucks 'cause Wilbon and Kornheiser were pretty cool columnists on the Post back when they actually wrote. And now that they're on TV they look like fools, although PTI is pretty good.
The Heat are definitely not as bad as some people make them out to be. CAN the Heat make it to the Finals? They definitely can, they have some great players on that team. WILL they make it to the Finals? It might not seem like it sometimes, but basketball is a game of streaks, and the Heat can turn it around and start playing great from one week to the next. In no way should people count the Heat out.
As for Wilbon, I still like him but ya there is no way he could hide that he is from Chicago. His Bulls bias is pretty blatant sometimes, but at the same time he is kind of open about it. Ya I like PTI too soutlight.
It's weird how only twice in those close LBJ has taken it to the rim and instead seem content to jack long jump shots.
Is it just me or should be be taking higher % 18-footers or taking it to the rim every time? I mean some of those 3s were like 30-footers? You're never gonna make them at a high clip.
Can't understand why someone with LBJ's physical gifts is settling for such deep, low % shots
On March 09 2011 09:29 RowdierBob wrote: It's weird how only twice in those close LBJ has taken it to the rim and instead seem content to jack long jump shots.
Is it just me or should be be taking higher % 18-footers or taking it to the rim every time? I mean some of those 3s were like 30-footers? You're never gonna make them at a high clip.
Can't understand why someone with LBJ's physical gifts is settling for such deep, low % shots
EPT
