On March 09 2011 15:18 Ace wrote: Bosh is playing really solid overall. Don't let a couple of bad games and public perception, which has always killed Bosh sway his actual value.
Bosh just confuses me...at times he's one of the most consistent players in the cHeat, but is a non-factor in other games. He reminds me of the 2008 Pau Gasol where he has the talent and skill but gets punked around by the more physical players.
If Bynum keeps up this newfound way of playing D and rebounding, the Lakers should be tough to beat. If he doesn't get injured and can stay consistent that is...
Bosh is fine btw, I mean he went from being a no.1 guy to a no.3, they are still learning on the job. If anything people are just comparing him to how he was doing in Toronto, where he was the best guy on a 8th seed playoff team. Sometimes it does look like he could put more effort into things like rebounding though, where he is not even averaging one more rebound than Lebron.
Btw some of you have probably seen this but Griffin is just a beast...says the ref also.
On March 09 2011 15:56 MassHysteria wrote: If Bynum keeps up this newfound way of playing D and rebounding, the Lakers should be tough to beat. If he doesn't get injured and can stay consistent that is...
Bosh is fine btw, I mean he went from being a no.1 guy to a no.3, they are still learning on the job. If anything people are just comparing him to how he was doing in Toronto, where he was the best guy on a 8th seed playoff team. Sometimes it does look like he could put more effort into things like rebounding though, where he is not even averaging one more rebound than Lebron.
On March 09 2011 15:18 Ace wrote: Bosh is playing really solid overall. Don't let a couple of bad games and public perception, which has always killed Bosh sway his actual value.
No way he has been worth the money they've payed for him. Solid overall isn't good enough for the type of player the Heat need him to be.
If any of you watched the last 5 minutes of the Portland game, you'll see that Bosh fucked up defensively 3 or 4 times leading to easy baskets. There is one instance where he's helping on a pick and roll, and he just leaves the guy alone, he waltzes in and drops in the deuce. He gets made to look stupid several times by Aldridge.
Dude is soft, he's a mid-range jump shooter that has a bit more quickness than the average 7 footer.
Anyone notice that he weighs like 25 pounds less than he did the start of his contract year in Toronto? Something tells me he wasn't working too hard this summer vs last.
On March 09 2011 15:18 Ace wrote: Bosh is playing really solid overall. Don't let a couple of bad games and public perception, which has always killed Bosh sway his actual value.
No way he has been worth the money they've payed for him. Solid overall isn't good enough for the type of player the Heat need him to be.
How many times this year has Bosh played badly? Has he been inefficient? Has he been playing terrible defensively all year? He may have had a couple of bad performances here or there but he's been super solid overall.
The "type" of player the Heat need him to be I don't understand. The one thing Bosh isn't doing as much as in Toronto is sitting near the rim and that's partially because of who he has on his team and because he's a deadly mid range shooter. The Heat got exactly what they paid for in Bosh. He's still one of the best Power Forwards in the game on both sides of the ball despite all of the media backlash he receives.
Bosh plays C too much - Dampier and Z aren't good enough and Haslem is injured. He's also putting in lots of minutes. So yeah, he will get tired and have some slip-ups. All in all thought, the Heat's problems are not the big 3.
Can we all agree that bosh doesn't seem as intimidating as he was in TO? I think it's partially due to the fact that he dropped a few pounds...I'd like to see him look a lot like Amare physically since he's already got the mid range.
I'm surprised when you put 3 starters from the USA Olympic team together that they are not blowing teams out by 20 points night after night. It makes me want to think about how the top east and west teams would do in the Olympics as their own team. Would the celts beat Spain? Lakers? Or spurs?
@citizen: He actually only plays Center when they go small. Which just brings back the issues he had in Toronto when asked to guard bigger guys. Thing is Aldridge plays PF but also plays Center and is much bigger than Bosh. Bosh wasn't guarding Aldridge for the majority of the game for good reason.
@BalliSLife: He isn't the same dominant PF due to not being asked to do as much. He's still been hitting his shots and contributing a ton. If you think Lebron gets a lot of hate now, imagine how much Miami would've gotten with a record like Atlanta.
On March 10 2011 01:05 BalliSLife wrote: Can we all agree that bosh doesn't seem as intimidating as he was in TO? I think it's partially due to the fact that he dropped a few pounds...I'd like to see him look a lot like Amare physically since he's already got the mid range.
On March 10 2011 01:05 BalliSLife wrote: Can we all agree that bosh doesn't seem as intimidating as he was in TO? I think it's partially due to the fact that be dropped a few pounds...I'd like to see him look a lot like Amare physically since he's already got the mid range.
I don't think he can ever be as built as Amare, he is a different body type. The lower weight could be a deliberate choice to put less strain on his knees. Remember, these guys have trainers and medics telling them what do do.
On March 10 2011 01:05 BalliSLife wrote: Can we all agree that bosh doesn't seem as intimidating as he was in TO? I think it's partially due to the fact that be dropped a few pounds...I'd like to see him look a lot like Amare physically since he's already got the mid range.
I don't think he can ever be as built as Amare, he is a different body type. The lower weight could be a deliberate choice to put less strain on his knees. Remember, these guys have trainers and medics telling them what do do.
You're right. But remember the time when Kobe was still in his fro days and then the next season he shaved it and he was visibly bigger? I was bit shocked to see his new look after a couple months of offseason, it was like he was on steroids. I don't recall which year it was but I think it was after their 3 rings with shaq. Anyhow, bosh should bring back his old TO built, and yes the dreadlocks matter.
On March 10 2011 00:44 Ace wrote: He's still one of the best Power Forwards in the game on both sides of the ball despite all of the media backlash he receives.
That ridiculous. Here are the only power forwards in the game that I think MIGHT be worse defensively:
David Lee Andray Blatche
If someone could name a third (starting 4), I'll be in your debt.
I could have sworn not too long ago we talked about Bosh's defense. If you think he's one of the worst PFs defensively do you have any numbers and consistent proof?
I think that Miami is going through exactly what many, including me, expected them to. Lebron and Wade are basically the same type of player, i.e. perimeter players who dominate the ball, aren't great 3pt shooters, and are used to playing in systems where their offenses were based on them creating everything for everyone. As such, it's not surprising that they're struggling to find a way to play together since there's only one ball, neither one of them are used to playing off the ball that much, and their games don't complement each other.
Bosh's struggles aren't that surprising either. Everyone knew that he was going to be the one who would take the largest hit in terms of production on offense, have to play a more complementary role, and be asked to spend more time on the perimeter since both Lebron and Wade are at their best attacking the basket. Everyone also knew that he'd have a large burden in terms of rebounding and defending the paint since Miami wasn't left with any dependable bigs after the trade and didn't have any money to go after one. People suspected that Bosh may struggle to fill that role of controlling the paint since he's a beanpole. Dampier was supposed to be a great pickup for them (I thought so), but he doesn't seem to be working out as well as some thought.
Simply put, these are not three superstar players whose games complement each other offensively. This is not the Celtics' or Spurs' Big 3 where the superstars all fulfill different needs and roles for their team, and have games that complement each other. There's only so much room in the paint, and all three want to operate down there. There's only one ball, and all three want it in their hands.
Lastly, everyone knew that the Heat would have issues with depth because they weren't coming in with affordable talent like Rondo, Big Baby and Perkins, like the Boston Big 3 did. Mike Miller was supposed to be their great acquisition, but he's been hurt and extremely disappointing thus far. Haslem was supposed to be their dirty work/hustle/defense role player, but he's been out all season. With that lack of depth, a lot of people (including me) didn't expect them to contend for the first season or even the second. It was only because they were winning so much and by large margins early on that people suddenly started putting them on the list of championship contenders. But then people started realizing that they weren't winning against the best teams and struggled in late game situations where they didn't blow the opponents out of the water.
Miami is still a great team, but they have issues which many foresaw coming in. Most of those people just forgot those issues when the Heat were winning, and are now acting all surprised that they're popping up now.
On March 10 2011 03:34 Ace wrote: I could have sworn not too long ago we talked about Bosh's defense. If you think he's one of the worst PFs defensively do you have any numbers and consistent proof?
First off, you're the one calling him "one of the best Power Forwards in the game on both sides of the ball" so the burden of proof lies just as heavily on you as it does me.
Secondly, individual defensive stats are foggy at best, you can't simply use the offensive stats of the player that they're guarding, because of the liquid nature of a basketball game, double teams, switches, leaving a man to come over and help etc.
There are no real numbers or consistent proof that I can use to prove my argument against your point, nor are there any that you can use to prove your claim that he's among the best defensively. Any unfalsifiable argument is a weak one.
In my above post, I cited 2 specific examples from 2 minutes of a game I watched. He left Brandon Roy alone for an easy two and got eaten alive by Alridge twice in the post.
So instead of demanding numbers and consistent proof that he's a good defensive player, I'll ask that you provide examples of some good defensive plays he has made, or to try and name any additional starting power forwards that you think are better defensively.
Some people tend to compare the Big 3 to Celtics Big 3.
Celtics got 3 different players for each position, Miami got 2 of the same ball hogging players, and a guy (Bosh) who has no clear role on the team at this very moment.
Its similar to what Real Madrid were doing when they bought every star football player under the roof, they bought big names who were known for attacking, while they ignored their defense and their roleplayers. Its the same thing, Miami win when Bron or Wade have a monster game, and that is easy to have against lesser .500 point teams.
But beating great teams has proven to be almost impossible for them, because you cant just give it to Bron or Wade and hope something happens, they are too good.
On March 10 2011 03:34 Ace wrote: I could have sworn not too long ago we talked about Bosh's defense. If you think he's one of the worst PFs defensively do you have any numbers and consistent proof?
First off, you're the one calling him "one of the best Power Forwards in the game on both sides of the ball" so the burden of proof lies just as heavily on you as it does me.
Secondly, individual defensive stats are foggy at best, you can't simply use the offensive stats of the player that they're guarding, because of the liquid nature of a basketball game, double teams, switches, leaving a man to come over and help etc.
There are no real numbers or consistent proof that I can use to prove my argument against your point, nor are there any that you can use to prove your claim that he's among the best defensively. Any unfalsifiable argument is a weak one.
In my above post, I cited 2 specific examples from 2 minutes of a game I watched. He left Brandon Roy alone for an easy two and got eaten alive by Alridge twice in the post.
So instead of demanding numbers and consistent proof that he's a good defensive player, I'll ask that you provide examples of some good defensive plays he has made, or to try and name any additional starting power forwards that you think are better defensively.
Because good defensive players never get exposed by great offensive players...
Not trying to defend Bosh, but you gotta come up with something better than 2 examples from 2 minutes of game footage to declare your statement as universal truth. Shit I can drop like 5 moments in late close games deep in the playoffs for Kobe where he was just god awful in his defensive execution, but that must mean he's a horrible defender by your same logic. In other words, present a larger sample size and a convincing argument rather than some paper thin I-saw-it-this-one-time evidence.
Short of Ace repeating what was already discussed, maybe you can use the search function on this website so we don't repeat what was already discussed.
EPT
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