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On August 03 2011 03:34 MagisterMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 03:26 superstartran wrote:
Diablo 2 got infested with it years ago. All Blizzard is doing is legitimizing the process, while also inconviencing people by forcing them to pay a tax on everything for the auction house (sellers predominantly). Any complaints about it here are from people who have never legitimately played Diablo 2 hard, or even WoW hard (WoW gear/gold etc. can easily be bought). I'm feeling like I'm repeating myself here but: just because D2 got infested with it doesn't mean D3 will. Bnet 2.0 infrastructure and security are so much better than old bnet. You can easily report spammers. Blizzard has enormous resources to pursue legal actions against item shops and in D3 they would actually have an reason to do so because the game will be bringing in serious revenue. I played a lot of D2 on bnet, and not once did I buy items via item shops or via jsp. I traded legit and still managed to build up my wealth from nothing to an almost fully decked out BvC. I'm baffled by the number of people just bending over to Blizzards ludicrous business models.
They arguably would have more assets to find gold farmers in wow since that game will most certainly continue to make them more money than d3 ever will. But they can't, most of it is off shore anyways in countries that don't respect IP laws. If D3 has a sizable player base it will most certainly end up with gold farmers in it, every game with rpg gear/wealth aspects has to deal with it.
Barter as a trade system is absolutely garbage, thats why JSP was so popular not because you go buy gear on your credit card but because you could feasibly amass wealth and trade at community established prices, because joining 1million open trade games fighting with spammers in the trade channels or having to argue with an idiot who thinks your zod rune is worth only a perfect diamond is not fun. Sure you might get to ripoff people who don't realize the true value of their item but in the end a currency model makes sense.
All they did was make a more secure JSP that was ran by blizzard which more people would identify as some one they would trust. People are going to buy items just like people will buy drugs and prostitutes no matter what the law says or how some self righteous gamer thinks it cheapens the experience much akin to a religious person wanting prostitution to be illegal because their sky wizard said it was immoral and naughty.
Its not a ludicrous business model if its one the market has already been engaging in for well over a decade.
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On August 03 2011 02:52 SoBeDragon wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts they would like to share about the persistent internet connection that's required to play the game...even single player.
I've played Diablo 2 for almost ten years and I think I played offline once for about 15 minutes during that time.
The persistent internet connection for D3 is not a problem for me.
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On August 03 2011 03:51 abominare wrote:
Its not a ludicrous business model if its one the market has already been engaging in for well over a decade.
Ludicrous in the way that it goes against Blizzards own philosophy of fair gaming.
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I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game?
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On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game?
Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.
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On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.
As someone stated, They just took D2JSP and put it INSIDE THE GMAE ENGINE, and into a safer more secure palce where u wont get scammed for FG or items.
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On August 03 2011 04:06 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way. As someone stated, They just took D2JSP and put it INSIDE THE GMAE ENGINE, and into a safer more secure palce where u wont get scammed for FG or items.
Actually this idea is genius by Blizzard. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually thought of it in D2 days and decieded to let itemshops and advertising bots to run wild just so they could use D2 as a exampel of the flawed system and thus easily implement it in D3. As I've said so so many times: Blizzard has the resources to take down itemshops and Bnet 2.0 has the infrastructure to prevent duping, hacking, botting, and spamming = we could have had a system without RMAH and a minimal black market, compared to legitimizing it (and from Blizzard's part actually encouraging it). Of course Blizzard chose the system that will make them the most money, I'm just surprised that so many people just take it. Maybe we have a bunch of aspiring D3-daytraders in this thread?
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I could care less that people buy items or that they make a few bucks but i fear that it destroyes the gaming experience. Not only did it got cut from 8 to 4 Players but if a Item Drop can earn them 5bucks there will be less fun public games and a very serious atmosphere in the higher ranks. Guess i have to stick to inhouse and hardcore only. I liked hardcore more anyway.
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I didnt understand the hate for JSP, because i personally used it more because of the fact that it was really hard to find trades using the bartering system ingame. JSP gave me a real currency so i could actually get the stuff I needed. so as long as there is a decent ingame currency that people actually want and that doesnt start at extremely high values(HRs) Im fine.
as for real money market, i feel like it will depend on how many people will actually shell out money for items. especially in a game that ladder resets. if people arent willing to spend excessive amounts of money for items, it will deflate quickly with everyone trying to get real money for things.
also the fees associated with using the real money transactions as opposed to in game one will probably decrease the urge of everyone to just liquidate everything they have at all times.
the thing I am more bothered by is the elimination of the skill system. trying out all the unique builds was what made D2 fun. this is def a step backwards even if they took a step forwards with the cool rune system.
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On August 03 2011 04:06 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way. As someone stated, They just took D2JSP and put it INSIDE THE GMAE ENGINE, and into a safer more secure palce where u wont get scammed for FG or items.
That's avoiding the point and you know it.
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Don't judge a book by its cover
Edit
Don't judge a game by its Pre-Beta build.
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The point is that pragmatism wins over ideology in the real world.
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It matters more in an MMO where you have to play with other people but if you just stay in your own games with your own friends it basically doesn't harm you in any way i think ::::
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It's amazing how much this reminds me of the drug war.
"Can't stop illegal drugs, so we might as well legalize it."
In all honesty though, I never really understood why people seem to hate the idea of real-money trade. In a competitive game like SC2, it's obviously a bad thing, but games like Diablo actually benefit a lot from RMT, and even games that forbid RMT (WoW) were never really harmed by the few people who did it. Any decent auctioneer in WoW could still easily earn money despite rampant gold farmers and undercutters, so I don't really see that being a problem in D3.
The more I think about it, the more I like the RMAH. Gonna be a lot of fun to use it when the game comes out.
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On August 03 2011 04:21 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:06 SMD wrote:On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way. As someone stated, They just took D2JSP and put it INSIDE THE GMAE ENGINE, and into a safer more secure palce where u wont get scammed for FG or items. That's avoiding the point and you know it.
Exactly. If people who RMT get scammed, and that reduces the amount of RMT going around, i see absolutely nothing wrong with that. RMT is not good for games. Maybe it is good for making profit of it, or for making blizzard more profit, but it is not good for having fun with it. As such, if there is a thing that makes RMT more risky or complicated, i don't see any reason to remove it. On the other hand, making RMT easier and less risky is a bad thing.
My main problem with this whole idea is that i don't expect any useful items to be in the gold-AH. Because seriously, when you can sell something for real money or for gold, most people will choose money, since it is the more flexible currency. For the money, you can buy stuff ingame and outside of the game, for gold you can only buy stuff ingame.
When playing a game, i want to relax and not be involved in real economics for real money, but just chill out, and waste my fake money on fun stuff. When that fake money suddenly is real money, that is no longer possible,
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On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.
It does not! It sure makes things more epic. Think of it, you kill a very hard boss and he drops something that you can get real money for! Its real treasure hunting!
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On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.
It does trivialize everything you find in game as opposed to buy. However, D3 is NOT a competitive game. I think most people in this forum are looking at this from a competitive (BW / SC2) stand point where, yes, the model would be awful.
Look at SC2, lets say you have to "unlock" each unit every ladder season or pay $50 to have them all instantly. Obviously, paying would give you a huge competitive advantage. This is what will happen in D3, however, its not a PvP game so it doesn't matter if someone instantly has better gear because your not in competition with that person.
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On August 03 2011 03:34 MagisterMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 03:26 superstartran wrote:
Diablo 2 got infested with it years ago. All Blizzard is doing is legitimizing the process, while also inconviencing people by forcing them to pay a tax on everything for the auction house (sellers predominantly). Any complaints about it here are from people who have never legitimately played Diablo 2 hard, or even WoW hard (WoW gear/gold etc. can easily be bought). I'm feeling like I'm repeating myself here but: just because D2 got infested with it doesn't mean D3 will. Bnet 2.0 infrastructure and security are so much better than old bnet. You can easily report spammers. Blizzard has enormous resources to pursue legal actions against item shops and in D3 they would actually have an reason to do so because the game will be bringing in serious revenue. I played a lot of D2 on bnet, and not once did I buy items via item shops or via jsp. I traded legit and still managed to build up my wealth from nothing to an almost fully decked out BvC. I'm baffled by the number of people just bending over to Blizzards ludicrous business models.
1) Offshore gold farmers are untouchable, as are the majority of item shop sellers etc.
2) B.net 2.0 isn't going to stop jack diddly squat except botting/spamming.
3) It took you MONTHS to build that BvC, period, and it probably took alot of no lifing to do it, along with crafty trading and alot of ripping off. There's no fucking way you didn't spend countless of hours to get a fully decked out BvC when it consists of some of the most expensive items in the game like Grief.
Not everyone has time to sit there and grind all day for a fucking rune that is only one of the few HR's that you need to piece together Grief, BotD, Last Wish, etc. Not everyone can sit there and try and grind it out for a Griffon's Eye, JMOD, etc.
People are growing up. Blizzard isn't doing anything different other than modeling F2P transactions. They are allowing players to pay for convenience, not for power. Someone out there STILL has to go out there and find the damn gear before anyone can pay for it, and most of the time that player usually keeps it.
People are getting all uppdy uppdy for no damn reason. Blizzard is not doing the equivalent of offering only Grief/LW/BotD/JMODs/Perfect Crafted Gloves/etc. to only people who pay. They are simply allowing players who have lives, jobs, etc. to spend money on items that they realistically do not have time to grind. It just means that people who have no lives that grind items all freaking day get paid, and the person that actually does have real life obligations can actually realistically do those builds that people always talk about.
It's a win win situation.
On August 03 2011 04:58 ThanksALot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way. It does trivialize everything you find in game as opposed to buy. However, D3 is NOT a competitive game. I think most people in this forum are looking at this from a competitive (BW / SC2) stand point where, yes, the model would be awful. Look at SC2, lets say you have to "unlock" each unit every ladder season or pay $50 to have them all instantly. Obviously, paying would give you a huge competitive advantage. This is what will happen in D3, however, its not a PvP game so it doesn't matter if someone instantly has better gear because your not in competition with that person.
There is no issue. Blizzard is allowing players to pay for convenience. Someone out there still has to go find the items. They are not allowing players to pay for power like some people are trying to make out.
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This is why I always just played diablo single player = /
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On August 03 2011 04:58 ThanksALot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:On August 03 2011 04:01 homer001 wrote:
I dont understand why ppl are complainin about the auction house.
So wat if someone bought all their gear with money.
How would that impact on u enjoyin the game? Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way. It does trivialize everything you find in game as opposed to buy. However, D3 is NOT a competitive game. I think most people in this forum are looking at this from a competitive (BW / SC2) stand point where, yes, the model would be awful. Look at SC2, lets say you have to "unlock" each unit every ladder season or pay $50 to have them all instantly. Obviously, paying would give you a huge competitive advantage. This is what will happen in D3, however, its not a PvP game so it doesn't matter if someone instantly has better gear because your not in competition with that person.
Any online game is competetive, and if only in the showing off sense of things. But my concerns are mostly not in the ego area, where it sucks if someone who did not invest as much time/thoughts/whatever into the game gets the same stuff as you, it is the idea that this will actually, measurably diminish my gaming experience. RMT will reduce the amount of useful stuff in the Gold AH. I don't think anyone will question this. Also, if Items ingame suddenly have a real value attached to them, that forces you to think about the real money you are spending when playing that game. You can't just waste ingame money on something fun, because it is directly linked to real money. If you are remotely smart, you tend to get enough money in games to have more then you need for stuff, and can waste some on fun things. Now, this fun money is directly linked to real money, and as a result everytime i spent something on fun things, i have to think about the real money i waste. Which i don't want to when i play a game. I want to not care about things, i want to not have responsibility attached to fun.
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EPT
