Diablo III General Discussion - Page 164

On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:

Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.

On August 03 2011 05:09 Simberto wrote:


Any online game is competetive, and if only in the showing off sense of things. But my concerns are mostly not in the ego area, where it sucks if someone who did not invest as much time/thoughts/whatever into the game gets the same stuff as you, it is the idea that this will actually, measurably diminish my gaming experience. RMT will reduce the amount of useful stuff in the Gold AH. I don't think anyone will question this. Also, if Items ingame suddenly have a real value attached to them, that forces you to think about the real money you are spending when playing that game. You can't just waste ingame money on something fun, because it is directly linked to real money. If you are remotely smart, you tend to get enough money in games to have more then you need for stuff, and can waste some on fun things. Now, this fun money is directly linked to real money, and as a result everytime i spent something on fun things, i have to think about the real money i waste. Which i don't want to when i play a game. I want to not care about things, i want to not have responsibility attached to fun.

On August 03 2011 05:10 Spawkuring wrote:


If this is how you feel, then technically you should be against not just real-money shops, but any kind of shop or trading in general.

The mere existence of trading means that there will always be a possibility that a person gets a good item without having to kill a single monster, therefore "trivializing" it. In WoW for example, a person who knows how to work the AH can earn literally 100,000g+ gold on a regular basis. Since Diablo has no BoE or BoP, a person who knows how to auction can get all the loot in the game with little to no monster killing. But I see nothing wrong with that because it takes a lot of effort to gain that much profit in the AH. In my eyes, a person who earned their loot through auctioning is just as valid as a person who did it through killing monsters.

Now you might be worried about the occasional rich kid who is able to just credit card swipe and buy a super decked out lv 60, but those situations are going to be small minority even with the RMAH. Decked out characters are very expensive as MMO players can attest to, so only a small handful of people are going to be able to afford it. I don't think I've ever heard of an MMO player having his experience ruined by a tiny amount of eBayers, so I see no reason to think D3 will be any different.

On August 03 2011 05:09 Simberto wrote:


Any online game is competetive, and if only in the showing off sense of things. But my concerns are mostly not in the ego area, where it sucks if someone who did not invest as much time/thoughts/whatever into the game gets the same stuff as you, it is the idea that this will actually, measurably diminish my gaming experience. RMT will reduce the amount of useful stuff in the Gold AH. I don't think anyone will question this. Also, if Items ingame suddenly have a real value attached to them, that forces you to think about the real money you are spending when playing that game. You can't just waste ingame money on something fun, because it is directly linked to real money. If you are remotely smart, you tend to get enough money in games to have more then you need for stuff, and can waste some on fun things. Now, this fun money is directly linked to real money, and as a result everytime i spent something on fun things, i have to think about the real money i waste. Which i don't want to when i play a game. I want to not care about things, i want to not have responsibility attached to fun.

On August 03 2011 05:03 superstartran wrote:



1) Offshore gold farmers are untouchable, as are the majority of item shop sellers etc.

2) B.net 2.0 isn't going to stop jack diddly squat except botting/spamming.

3) It took you MONTHS to build that BvC, period, and it probably took alot of no lifing to do it, along with crafty trading and alot of ripping off. There's no fucking way you didn't spend countless of hours to get a fully decked out BvC when it consists of some of the most expensive items in the game like Grief.

Not everyone has time to sit there and grind all day for a fucking rune that is only one of the few HR's that you need to piece together Grief, BotD, Last Wish, etc. Not everyone can sit there and try and grind it out for a Griffon's Eye, JMOD, etc.

People are growing up. Blizzard isn't doing anything different other than modeling F2P transactions. They are allowing players to pay for convenience, not for power. Someone out there STILL has to go out there and find the damn gear before anyone can pay for it, and most of the time that player usually keeps it.

People are getting all uppdy uppdy for no damn reason. Blizzard is not doing the equivalent of offering only Grief/LW/BotD/JMODs/Perfect Crafted Gloves/etc. to only people who pay. They are simply allowing players who have lives, jobs, etc. to spend money on items that they realistically do not have time to grind. It just means that people who have no lives that grind items all freaking day get paid, and the person that actually does have real life obligations can actually realistically do those builds that people always talk about.

On August 03 2011 05:17 superstartran wrote:




You don't need to use the AH to play Diablo 3. You never even needed to trade in D2 to beat the game on Hell mode.

On August 03 2011 05:22 ThanksALot wrote:


I mostly agree. I won't be playing D3. I am just saying that the game is being made and marketed as one where you can grab some friends, run around, kill stuff, get treasure. Rinse and repeat.

People who need that competitive piece to enjoy the game (me) won't play it. Tons of others will.

On August 03 2011 05:30 [Agony]x90 wrote:
So I was surfing the Blizzard forums for information on the new skill system, and i found this..

"Leveling to 60, finding gear, finding runes, all go toward making a viable build with 6 skills and 3 passives.

Diablo III is a more complex game, combat-wise, you can't max out a single attack skill and whirlwind to victory. We have around eight different types of skills (attack, cc, escape, etc.), each class has around twenty four, and with only six slots that's some hard decisions on how you can build your character. Limits mean variety if we do our job right.

Yes you'll be able to see some guy with his skills and passives set a certain way and copy him, but that's always been the case. What's important is experimenting and finding unique builds, and finding the items to support it.

There's far more build potential in Diablo III, especially with the recent changes. "

This was posted by Bashiok, who is a Blizzard poster. In any case, from what I see here, I now understand what Blizzard was aiming for in customization for skills. Thinking about it, respecing in general exists now in D2 and will in D3. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing, but because respecing does exist, it is completely invalid to argue that D2 is fully customizable, at least in terms of skills. With respecing, your character becomes a template and the only number that really matters is what level you are, because at any point, you could burn those powders and lose all your stat and skill points with the freedom to replace them. D3 simply allows the same exact thing without having to actually go through that whole process.

At this point, having skill points in D2 do not give you any customization. Therefore in D3, in order to add customization, the dev team forces the players to select 9 skills (6 active, 3 passive), and although the player does not HAVE to use all 9, doing so will make you the better player. Think of D3 as one huge MOBA, except rather than having heroes premade by the makers of the game, you get to choose what skills you have. In the end, the heroes that you play in MOBAs are just pixels with statistics and numbers behind them. What sucks is that you don't get to pick your skills. However, this is essential for game balance, which does not neccesarilly have to exist in D3.

Now, what D2 does have over D3, are two things (imo), stat points and a cost for respec. I don't know this for certain, but at the moment it seems stats are automatically given out and there is no cost for respecing skills.

Personally, I don't want to see people able to swap a skill set for another instantly. There must be a cost or a limitation. Otherwise, a person will simply keep switching his or her skill sets as is needed. For example, a person might pick BASH when going against a certain boss, but then switch it out for WAR CRY for the aoe for the mobs that follow up right after. Ideally, the system should let you pick one before you start, but then you're either stuck with BASH or WAR CRY for both the boss fight and the mob fight. Ways they could correct this is to make it cost money in order to swap one skill for another. Meaning if you wanna swap all 9 skills, it would cost 9 times number of swaps you want to make. Another way would be to only allow swaps when you level up. This way, leveling up means more than just "my skills are stronger". If you want to try a bad skill, you will have to wait until you level in order to replace it. And then maybe once you hit a certain level, you can opt to pay a heavy gold fee in order to make replacements. These are just ideas of mine, but there should definitely be some kind of limitation in order to avoid abuse and to encourage diversity (even if its because some poor sap choose a crappy skill at lvl 7 and must wait til lvl 8 to change it).

As for stat points, people argue that it was bad in D2 because it was so streamlined. I agree with this. I hated putting in points because I wanted to make sure what my build was 100 percent before doing it. With respecing, this removed this fear, but in the end it was indeed, enough str to wear gear, dex for max block (or none) and rest into vit. However, i don't think completely removing it is the correct answer. IMO, the correct way to handle it is to give more meaning to those stats. They should alter things depending on each character type.

For example, the barb should gain more rage gain if he has more vitality, or maybe more damage with str. Also, dex could increase attack speed or provide a dodge chance of sorts. I feel that the more complicated the stats, the less obvious optimal builds can become. If items are more randomized in this game, then perhaps I might need more strength for damage because an item gives me more attack speed, but hardly any damage. Or maybe I actually do need energy or magic because it improves my abilities damage. There are a huge array of things they could do with that, but in my opinion, the more things those stats affect, the more customization it'll provide. This way, maybe i can make a castor barb or an autoattacking wizard, even if its not optimal.

As for the AH, I know where I stand and have come to the conclusion that no one will change their minds until they see it in action. We can't know if the system will indeed work and that items will be rare enough that people will want to trade fairly OR the system could break and the game can be swarmed with bots and hackers. In either case, I know blizzard will respond immediately, especially because that has to do with their players' money, something you don't want to mess with. In either case, as a personal anger note... If you're gonna threaten to go play torchlight 2 or cancel your subscription, please just do that and don't bother coming onto this thread. I'd rather not have people bitch when i'm just trying to play or discuss the game.

On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:

Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.

On August 03 2011 06:17 Playguuu wrote:


Well written. I think all these changes are good, but many people are too nostalgic about the skills and their 'wealth' on d2jsp to notice that. It's all player driven anyway, so what is the difference whether you buy from other players directly or use the AH or use a 3rd party site? If you're going to participate in real money transactions I'd much rather have it through the game itself than to possibly get scammed or deal with shady sites.

On August 03 2011 06:17 Playguuu wrote:

Well written. I think all these changes are good, but many people are too nostalgic about the skills and their 'wealth' on d2jsp to notice that. It's all player driven anyway, so what is the difference whether you buy from other players directly or use the AH or use a 3rd party site? If you're going to participate in real money transactions I'd much rather have it through the game itself than to possibly get scammed or deal with shady sites.

On August 03 2011 04:02 Serpico wrote:

Because it trivializes everything you get the honest way.

On August 03 2011 05:17 superstartran wrote:




You don't need to use the AH to play Diablo 3. You never even needed to trade in D2 to beat the game on Hell mode.





Average decked out build in D2 will run you about 50+ bucks depending on the build/items. That's with all the duping that goes on. Sometimes it can run you an easy 200+ if you are running an expensive build.


D3 you can multiply those numbers by about 3-5 times, possibly more.