On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote: I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour. Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
By majority I mean the majority of gamers in general.
I don't think the recent d2 patches can apply to sample what the actual gaming population will be when d3 will be released. As you said, a lot of the d2 players that remain today are the people who invest time (and money?) into this - people who stay longer on a game are most likely going to be a bit more hardcore than the people who start with everybody from day one and stop playing within the first year.
What I mean is I don't believe that practices that are currently going on with d2jsp are 100% transferable to the players that will join the d3 community after the release - there would not be the instinctive reflex for these people to try and buy items with real money, but Blizzard is just putting this right under their nose and effectively generalizes (and encourages) a practice for which bans currently occur in their other games.
You don't pay money on d2jsp, it's not an item shop. When you start out, you sell a bunch of shitty items and will get your first funds. If you have your first roll, you either try to buy and resell or you keep on farming items. D2jsp exists because there is no real currency in diablo 2. Blizzard took care of this in diablo 3 by introducing their own currency and an auction house.
yes the site creator (njaguar) sells forum gold for real cash, theres whole donor system this site is dirty as ****, after some thought the whole blizzard AH isnt as bad as I thought, somebody would make it anyway and i preffer it to be run by blizzard than by some random german shops created by hacker who knows how to import/dupe items.
See, you're 100% clueless. People don't go there and buy items using cash. If you want to purchase items using cash, you go to a itemshop.
D2jsp provides a currency. If you don't understand why currency is important and useful, stop posting.
Also, stop making shit up and pulling random facts out of your ass, you don't even know wether or not duping is possible, you just assume it is because you heard about it 5 years ago.
And to create that currency, SOMEONE had to pay real money. Just like in the blizzard ah.^^ Additionally most items were cheaper (half the price) if you donate for star upgrades at d2jsp than buying at itemshops, so several people did that. fg has the same value of a currency as the new e-balance of blizzard and NOT as the ingame gold. That was the part of runes and pgems lately. You could argue that it was mostly the itemshops themselves buying fg so they could trade for the items that they sell to others, but that does not make the whole thing better and rather speaks FOR the blizzard solution (taking out 2 middlemen at once instead of just 1).^^
The game will still be just as fun and you don't NEED to use the real money AH....
It's about bad players buying the best gear/chars and facerolling through the game. The Game is dead and most people won't buy it now. The players who spend the most real-life money will win.
It's not a competitive game. You're supposed to ask yourself "Will I have fun playing this? and will that fun be worth the X amount of money I pay for it?" If the answer is yes, you get the game and you play it.
Exactly! The people who are like "oh noes rich people can just faceroll the game, therefore my enjoyment is ruined".
You know there are people who climb mountains. Do you think their enjoyment is lessened because rich people can just fly to the summit in a helicopter?
Yes actually it is. I was going to climb kilimanjaro on my lunch break today but then I discovered we had flight technology and now it's not worth my time. Fuck Boeing.
On August 02 2011 20:24 landmarktiger wrote: I am in favour of this even though i know it has gotten a lot of hate from the community. It helps the hardcore players by giving them a source of income while playing this game, it helps the casual people by allowing them to get top gear without spending too much time in the game and it also helps blizzard by giving them a source of income- this in turn will ensure that we get continued support for this game for "free" essentially - i would much rather have this than paying ridiculous amounts like 15 dollars for 5 shitty maps every few months like what CoD people pay. Now real money trading did exist before also through third party websites but now this will be much more secure and safe way - i much rather have this than risk getting scammed. For SC2 blizzard get money through their esport partners because it has such a huge esport industry and hence we are able to get free continued support like balance changes, bug fixes, new maps etc but for diablo blizz needed this buiseness model or they could have just charged us a monthly fee. Sorry for the wall of text but this is my 2 cents.
Do people seriously think youll make more than a few dollars a month through this? It doesnt matter how hardcore you are the market will be massively flooded by millions of chinese farmers playing 24/7. Nothing but the most rare items will be worth more than a few dollars and if youre banking on one of those u might as well start playing the lottery. Its gonna be nice for different reasons but definetly not as a source of income.
You contradict yourself. Not only will these millons of chinese farmers compete with normal players, they will also compete with themselves. In that scenario, everything will be too cheap to live off of it, even in china.
Umm..those millions of farmers already compete in games like wow and pretty much every other multiplayer game in existence. They have the manpower to turn a profit. The point is no one player can compete with that enough to make a living for themselves unless they feel like grinding 24/7 for minimum wage. Where is the contradiction exactly?
You're saying that millons of people will compete in a market where they can't make any profit while trying to make profit.. really? Also, you're 100% clueless about china farming. You have no numbers, nothing. You pull all your facts straight out of your ass.
On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote: I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour. Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
By majority I mean the majority of gamers in general.
I don't think the recent d2 patches can apply to sample what the actual gaming population will be when d3 will be released. As you said, a lot of the d2 players that remain today are the people who invest time (and money?) into this - people who stay longer on a game are most likely going to be a bit more hardcore than the people who start with everybody from day one and stop playing within the first year.
What I mean is I don't believe that practices that are currently going on with d2jsp are 100% transferable to the players that will join the d3 community after the release - there would not be the instinctive reflex for these people to try and buy items with real money, but Blizzard is just putting this right under their nose and effectively generalizes (and encourages) a practice for which bans currently occur in their other games.
You don't pay money on d2jsp, it's not an item shop. When you start out, you sell a bunch of shitty items and will get your first funds. If you have your first roll, you either try to buy and resell or you keep on farming items. D2jsp exists because there is no real currency in diablo 2. Blizzard took care of this in diablo 3 by introducing their own currency and an auction house.
yes the site creator (njaguar) sells forum gold for real cash, theres whole donor system this site is dirty as ****, after some thought the whole blizzard AH isnt as bad as I thought, somebody would make it anyway and i preffer it to be run by blizzard than by some random german shops created by hacker who knows how to import/dupe items.
See, you're 100% clueless. People don't go there and buy items using cash. If you want to purchase items using cash, you go to a itemshop.
D2jsp provides a currency. If you don't understand why currency is important and useful, stop posting.
Also, stop making shit up and pulling random facts out of your ass, you don't even know wether or not duping is possible, you just assume it is because you heard about it 5 years ago.
Exactly. That guy is clueless. You don't need to pay using real money to get fg, you just trade some items in exchange for fg... ( Usually at start of ladder, items are worth significantly more ( 800-1600 per HR within the first 1-2 days ) and would eventually drop to 2-3 fg by the end of a season. There's some ladder only items ( they can be on the normal characters only after a season has ended and the ladder characters get converted to normal ones ). Certain items ( socketed ones of a certain type are sought after ) and any Ethereal 6 Socketed Berzerker Axe ( Superior +15% ) trades quite well ( magic find doesn't help you get these and they're used for making other items )
On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote: I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour. Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
By majority I mean the majority of gamers in general.
I don't think the recent d2 patches can apply to sample what the actual gaming population will be when d3 will be released. As you said, a lot of the d2 players that remain today are the people who invest time (and money?) into this - people who stay longer on a game are most likely going to be a bit more hardcore than the people who start with everybody from day one and stop playing within the first year.
What I mean is I don't believe that practices that are currently going on with d2jsp are 100% transferable to the players that will join the d3 community after the release - there would not be the instinctive reflex for these people to try and buy items with real money, but Blizzard is just putting this right under their nose and effectively generalizes (and encourages) a practice for which bans currently occur in their other games.
You don't pay money on d2jsp, it's not an item shop. When you start out, you sell a bunch of shitty items and will get your first funds. If you have your first roll, you either try to buy and resell or you keep on farming items. D2jsp exists because there is no real currency in diablo 2. Blizzard took care of this in diablo 3 by introducing their own currency and an auction house.
yes the site creator (njaguar) sells forum gold for real cash, theres whole donor system this site is dirty as ****, after some thought the whole blizzard AH isnt as bad as I thought, somebody would make it anyway and i preffer it to be run by blizzard than by some random german shops created by hacker who knows how to import/dupe items.
See, you're 100% clueless. People don't go there and buy items using cash. If you want to purchase items using cash, you go to a itemshop.
D2jsp provides a currency. If you don't understand why currency is important and useful, stop posting.
Also, stop making shit up and pulling random facts out of your ass, you don't even know wether or not duping is possible, you just assume it is because you heard about it 5 years ago.
And to create that currency, SOMEONE had to pay real money. Just like in the blizzard ah.^^ Additionally most items were cheaper (half the price) if you donate for star upgrades at d2jsp than buying at itemshops, so several people did that. fg has the same value of a currency as the new e-balance of blizzard and NOT as the ingame gold. That was the part of runes and pgems lately. You could argue that it was mostly the itemshops themselves buying fg so they could trade for the items that they sell to others, but that does not make the whole thing better and rather speaks FOR the blizzard solution (taking out 2 middlemen at once instead of just 1).^^
What the fuck man, I dont even understand your english. Yes, if you donate money to d2jsp, you get a fixed amount of forum gold. No, if you have a star, items won't magically be half price, d2jsp is not an item shop.
On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote: I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour. Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
By majority I mean the majority of gamers in general.
I don't think the recent d2 patches can apply to sample what the actual gaming population will be when d3 will be released. As you said, a lot of the d2 players that remain today are the people who invest time (and money?) into this - people who stay longer on a game are most likely going to be a bit more hardcore than the people who start with everybody from day one and stop playing within the first year.
What I mean is I don't believe that practices that are currently going on with d2jsp are 100% transferable to the players that will join the d3 community after the release - there would not be the instinctive reflex for these people to try and buy items with real money, but Blizzard is just putting this right under their nose and effectively generalizes (and encourages) a practice for which bans currently occur in their other games.
You don't pay money on d2jsp, it's not an item shop. When you start out, you sell a bunch of shitty items and will get your first funds. If you have your first roll, you either try to buy and resell or you keep on farming items. D2jsp exists because there is no real currency in diablo 2. Blizzard took care of this in diablo 3 by introducing their own currency and an auction house.
yes the site creator (njaguar) sells forum gold for real cash, theres whole donor system this site is dirty as ****, after some thought the whole blizzard AH isnt as bad as I thought, somebody would make it anyway and i preffer it to be run by blizzard than by some random german shops created by hacker who knows how to import/dupe items.
See, you're 100% clueless. People don't go there and buy items using cash. If you want to purchase items using cash, you go to a itemshop.
D2jsp provides a currency. If you don't understand why currency is important and useful, stop posting.
Also, stop making shit up and pulling random facts out of your ass, you don't even know wether or not duping is possible, you just assume it is because you heard about it 5 years ago.
the only person whos clueless is you, plenty of people go on jsp and buy forum gold from njaguar for cash and later buy items for it, you have to be insanely out of touch to belive there's no dupe method when everybody who played the game knows there is lol (even i duped), how otherwise would you be able to buy 60high runs from one person who doesnt even hide they are duped because they tell u to perm when you leave the game, on top of that there's probably method to import items because people keep running around with shopped hybrid runewords.
If the WoW business model works for them, all they have to do is steal enough accounts and pay their workers badly enough and they can apparently turn a profit. The price of WoW gold is somewhere around $2 an hour if you were to grind and sell it yourself. Sure if you're an AH baron you can make a lot more gold, but you'll get banned in a heartbeat if you try to sell it all.
Millions of people will be perfectly happy to sell in this market, but who's buying? The exchange rate is going to be astronomical with so few willing to put money into the system. A barter market would have been a more logical approach considering Diablo's history... but then they wouldn't have gotten their cut.
Interesting point of view. He's probably right in the sense of this is gonna get more and more presents in future games and in 5 years it'll feel normal. But the part were people will make a living out of gaming, I'm extremelly doubtfull... I hope I'm wrong
On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote: I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour. Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
By majority I mean the majority of gamers in general.
I don't think the recent d2 patches can apply to sample what the actual gaming population will be when d3 will be released. As you said, a lot of the d2 players that remain today are the people who invest time (and money?) into this - people who stay longer on a game are most likely going to be a bit more hardcore than the people who start with everybody from day one and stop playing within the first year.
What I mean is I don't believe that practices that are currently going on with d2jsp are 100% transferable to the players that will join the d3 community after the release - there would not be the instinctive reflex for these people to try and buy items with real money, but Blizzard is just putting this right under their nose and effectively generalizes (and encourages) a practice for which bans currently occur in their other games.
You don't pay money on d2jsp, it's not an item shop. When you start out, you sell a bunch of shitty items and will get your first funds. If you have your first roll, you either try to buy and resell or you keep on farming items. D2jsp exists because there is no real currency in diablo 2. Blizzard took care of this in diablo 3 by introducing their own currency and an auction house.
yes the site creator (njaguar) sells forum gold for real cash, theres whole donor system this site is dirty as ****, after some thought the whole blizzard AH isnt as bad as I thought, somebody would make it anyway and i preffer it to be run by blizzard than by some random german shops created by hacker who knows how to import/dupe items.
See, you're 100% clueless. People don't go there and buy items using cash. If you want to purchase items using cash, you go to a itemshop.
D2jsp provides a currency. If you don't understand why currency is important and useful, stop posting.
Also, stop making shit up and pulling random facts out of your ass, you don't even know wether or not duping is possible, you just assume it is because you heard about it 5 years ago.
And to create that currency, SOMEONE had to pay real money. Just like in the blizzard ah.^^ Additionally most items were cheaper (half the price) if you donate for star upgrades at d2jsp than buying at itemshops, so several people did that. fg has the same value of a currency as the new e-balance of blizzard and NOT as the ingame gold. That was the part of runes and pgems lately. You could argue that it was mostly the itemshops themselves buying fg so they could trade for the items that they sell to others, but that does not make the whole thing better and rather speaks FOR the blizzard solution (taking out 2 middlemen at once instead of just 1).^^
What the fuck man, I dont even understand your english. Yes, if you donate money to d2jsp, you get a fixed amount of forum gold. No, if you have a star, items won't magically be half price, d2jsp is not an item shop.
The rest if 100% made-up bullshit.
If you have access to the donor forum at d2jsp (which I have from when it was a botting site back in 2002 ), there is a subforum where you can buy starupgrades for others. Effectively this almost doubles the return of fg you get for donating instead of a straight donation while not even generating new fg. Most people just do not know it or do not bother with it. If you just monitor the site for a short while, you notice how much real money people actually pay there.
All the fg you can "make by selling" exists because someone previously donated money to njaguar.
On August 02 2011 23:03 Psiven wrote: Millions of people will be perfectly happy to sell in this market, but who's buying? The exchange rate is going to be astronomical with so few willing to put money into the system. A barter market would have been a more logical approach considering Diablo's history... but then they wouldn't have gotten their cut.
If that turns out to be the case then the in-game gold AH will be the dominate market, with the real money one for the few who want to spend real money. I really don't think this whole thing is a problem...
Gosh, so much hate. I got bored reading so many identically whining responses.
I, for one, am still quite excited for the game. I'll surely play through solo and with a friend mostly. The AH sounds like it could be useful, though I'm somewhat wary about the RMAH and won't use it. That said, I doubt it will ruin the game. I hope the AH actually facilitates trading and makes the economic aspect of the game more interesting and stable. The market of item for item trades in D2 was extremely volatile.
If the RMAH becomes intolerable, I'll simply play hardcore. I enjoy the challenge of having to play faultlessly anyway. The game is looking quite polished and good from what I've seen, and I hope to get a beta key!
Can someone explain what is taking place tomorrow and what kind of news we can expect? I thought it was some sort of conference call but now I can't find any information on it.
I wonder if they have considered making a non-hardcore gold only server? It seems that would cut down on some of the whining about pay 2 win and a lot of the other complains. Although I don't agree with the complains, I think the RMAH is a good thing for the game. The players wanted it, and this will help fix a lot of the problems with scams and bots. Still if people don't think this is good, they don't have to use it, and I don't see sites like jsp going away. There's still going to be a market for it, away from paying fees, and I'm sure tons of people have plenty invested in d2 and other games that could transfer over.
On August 02 2011 20:24 landmarktiger wrote: I am in favour of this even though i know it has gotten a lot of hate from the community. It helps the hardcore players by giving them a source of income while playing this game, it helps the casual people by allowing them to get top gear without spending too much time in the game and it also helps blizzard by giving them a source of income- this in turn will ensure that we get continued support for this game for "free" essentially - i would much rather have this than paying ridiculous amounts like 15 dollars for 5 shitty maps every few months like what CoD people pay. Now real money trading did exist before also through third party websites but now this will be much more secure and safe way - i much rather have this than risk getting scammed. For SC2 blizzard get money through their esport partners because it has such a huge esport industry and hence we are able to get free continued support like balance changes, bug fixes, new maps etc but for diablo blizz needed this buiseness model or they could have just charged us a monthly fee. Sorry for the wall of text but this is my 2 cents.
Do people seriously think youll make more than a few dollars a month through this? It doesnt matter how hardcore you are the market will be massively flooded by millions of chinese farmers playing 24/7. Nothing but the most rare items will be worth more than a few dollars and if youre banking on one of those u might as well start playing the lottery. Its gonna be nice for different reasons but definetly not as a source of income.
You contradict yourself. Not only will these millons of chinese farmers compete with normal players, they will also compete with themselves. In that scenario, everything will be too cheap to live off of it, even in china.
Umm..those millions of farmers already compete in games like wow and pretty much every other multiplayer game in existence. They have the manpower to turn a profit. The point is no one player can compete with that enough to make a living for themselves unless they feel like grinding 24/7 for minimum wage. Where is the contradiction exactly?
You're saying that millons of people will compete in a market where they can't make any profit while trying to make profit.. really? Also, you're 100% clueless about china farming. You have no numbers, nothing. You pull all your facts straight out of your ass.
Wtf are u even arguing against...my point was that chinese farmers whos sole purpose is to farm items/gold will make a profit but random players just playing the game normally arent going to make any money off this ah like some seem to think. Its not that hard to comprehend.
On August 02 2011 23:59 Playguuu wrote: I wonder if they have considered making a non-hardcore gold only server? It seems that would cut down on some of the whining about pay 2 win and a lot of the other complains. Although I don't agree with the complains, I think the RMAH is a good thing for the game. The players wanted it, and this will help fix a lot of the problems with scams and bots. Still if people don't think this is good, they don't have to use it, and I don't see sites like jsp going away. There's still going to be a market for it, away from paying fees, and I'm sure tons of people have plenty invested in d2 and other games that could transfer over.
If my guess is right (completely baseless here) servers will probably be created in a similar fashion to D2. In other words I make a server called "My Server" and either password it or not, and then people can join it and play with me.
IIRC, ForceSC2's video mentioned that there is no in-game way to access the auction house (like you can't do it from town) and so it has to be done from battle.net. This means you would do your AH transactions from outside of a server in some way.
Since stashes are shared between your characters on the same account for the same "core" setting (i.e. all your core characters have the same stash, all the hardcore characters have a different, but shared stash) you will probably purchase items with the gold stored in your stash and the item you purchase will be transferred there. If you use RMT then it's SSDD but with "battle-bucks" instead of in-game gold.
EPT
), there is a subforum where you can buy starupgrades for others. Effectively this almost doubles the return of fg you get for donating instead of a straight donation while not even generating new fg. Most people just do not know it or do not bother with it. If you just monitor the site for a short while, you notice how much real money people actually pay there.
