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On August 02 2011 20:27 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 20:11 lofung wrote:and if it is like this it would likely promote hacking a lot  That is why everyone who does not use an authenticator is an idiot or should not complain.
you know that in some part of the world, taiwan, at least, had a large wave of hacking over accounts with an authenticator binded in january this year? authenticator does put a higher cost on hacking but it will not soften the incentive to hack. real money AH does making everything worse while putting a cost on everyone, even if you are not spending the money.
of course, i have the right to complain.
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On August 02 2011 20:27 Artrey wrote:
That is why everyone who does not use an authenticator is an idiot or should not complain.
Riiiight. You like binding a paid game to an online account, don't you?
Imho this is the worst thing about the 'new' bnet (and Steam). It has some fancy features like downloading gameclients, but it always feel insecure. And i won't pay another 10 just to make sure (?) i can keep my purchased games. I agree that hacking may improve with this AH thingy though.
Nvm, sorry for being offtopic;
For me it's a much worse thing to have the 4-player cap, then anything else which has been announced.
AH? Just dont use it. I dont care how others get their items. I care how I get MY items and can have fun slaughtering the evil.
Imo any mechanics Blizzard made in their games are good. The gameplay is just better then any of their competitors'. I just trust em and will wait until I tried the game before complaining about anything.
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On August 02 2011 18:48 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 17:57 MasterFischer wrote:
-There will be region locking, so no, there won't be chinese sweapshops ruining your realm.
OMG you are so smart. You just found the perfect solution to stopping all the chinese sweapshops. No one, including the chinese sweapshops, had ever thought of a region lock. Now they are all going to go out of business. Seriously, are you even serious with that comment? Have you ever played WoW? Have you heard of gold sellers? What, you think the ones selling on EU realms are kids from Germany and France?
You're totally right but there is no reason to answer so aggressively :<
I'm hesitant about pre-ordering the game right now because I'm pretty sure there is gonna be one of those 'preorder here and we give you a beta key' kinda deal popping up!
Although considering how easy it was to get a beta key near the end of SC2 beta, I'm pretty confident that I will actually get one again this time :p
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On August 02 2011 07:43 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:30 xarthaz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 abominare wrote:On August 02 2011 06:55 xarthaz wrote:On August 02 2011 06:40 abominare wrote:On August 02 2011 06:36 Logo wrote:
The disappointing thing about the skill system change is there are less trade-offs. It was cool in D2 that you had the option to have 1-point skills and that different skills had different costs in getting the requirements for the skill. So if you went for something further down the tree you had less points for other things giving you a more powerful ability with (in theory at least) a cost of having less other things.
With the way it is now all abilities need to be roughly the same power level since they all have the same opportunity cost. This is false because there was typically only 2-3 builds per class that were worth anything and all the points were stacking in the 3-4 skills that made the build worthwhile and and only a single point towards all the requisites. It wasnt about trade offs it was about spreadsheets, it was really one of the first pc games to really capitalize on the min maxing aspects from traditional PnP (not pvp) games, pnp being the grand daddy where minmax/theorycrafting your wow character came from. Uhh, diablo 2 only became the mess you describe after patch 1.07 with immunes and 1.10 with the synergies. those two things messed up the variety in gameplay, along with the craptastic balance of post-1.06 patch diablo 2. The expansion in general was a terrible addition from gameplay and balance perspective, aside from the 2 classes and extra areas. The game was always horribly balanced, what d2 were you playing? You can still google d2 community sites and find stickies in the character build sections that list theorycrafted builds from pre 1.07 patch. amusingly synergies allowed classes that were typically seen as useless to be more legitimate, however it still shoe horned you into a couple optimal builds + a couple novelty builds. Good players still always just just maxed the important skills and the rest of the skills got one if any points. Concerning stats it had been since d1 standard play to put all your points outside of gear reqs into vit or in some case split vit/damage dealing stat. Nothing changed except for a bunch of people who were terrible and tried to play the field with spells and stats. Curious to hear what class you think is useless in 1.06 and before, they all have extremely powerful builds from what i have played(100+ hours). Unlike 1.10+ where everything other than light sorcs, light zons and hdins is slow at endgame and there exists a massive performance gap between dupeword & botter minmaxers and the regular players compared to the rare-based system of 1.06 and older. Also funny you say synergies make skills useful. When it and other expansion changes (no cool downs) decreased options of skills due to forced skill tree maxing, not increased them. The funny "theorycrafted" builds are only funny because they dont make sense within the gear and skill concept of 1.10+. You see, in the old patches the ED, +skills and cooldowns are very low compared to now, so the skill appliance mechanics are what matter Paladins sucked throught out the entire D2 history, and yes, my first class was a charge-hammerdin, way back in 1.01. The hammerdin back then was the only halfass viable build for a paladin to even try soloing act4, and even in that you had to have a handfull of rejs, because he sucked, HARD.
Well, ive done p5 hell cs games with my hdin in 1.00 and the damage with conc is big(1k+, takes monsters down quickly even in big games), i gotta say, its pretty damn effective. And unlike casters like necros and sorcs they have the quick battery charge redemption mechanic meaning less energy investment necessary
On August 02 2011 08:20 delHospital wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:43 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 07:30 xarthaz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 abominare wrote:On August 02 2011 06:55 xarthaz wrote:On August 02 2011 06:40 abominare wrote:On August 02 2011 06:36 Logo wrote:
The disappointing thing about the skill system change is there are less trade-offs. It was cool in D2 that you had the option to have 1-point skills and that different skills had different costs in getting the requirements for the skill. So if you went for something further down the tree you had less points for other things giving you a more powerful ability with (in theory at least) a cost of having less other things.
With the way it is now all abilities need to be roughly the same power level since they all have the same opportunity cost. This is false because there was typically only 2-3 builds per class that were worth anything and all the points were stacking in the 3-4 skills that made the build worthwhile and and only a single point towards all the requisites. It wasnt about trade offs it was about spreadsheets, it was really one of the first pc games to really capitalize on the min maxing aspects from traditional PnP (not pvp) games, pnp being the grand daddy where minmax/theorycrafting your wow character came from. Uhh, diablo 2 only became the mess you describe after patch 1.07 with immunes and 1.10 with the synergies. those two things messed up the variety in gameplay, along with the craptastic balance of post-1.06 patch diablo 2. The expansion in general was a terrible addition from gameplay and balance perspective, aside from the 2 classes and extra areas. The game was always horribly balanced, what d2 were you playing? You can still google d2 community sites and find stickies in the character build sections that list theorycrafted builds from pre 1.07 patch. amusingly synergies allowed classes that were typically seen as useless to be more legitimate, however it still shoe horned you into a couple optimal builds + a couple novelty builds. Good players still always just just maxed the important skills and the rest of the skills got one if any points. Concerning stats it had been since d1 standard play to put all your points outside of gear reqs into vit or in some case split vit/damage dealing stat. Nothing changed except for a bunch of people who were terrible and tried to play the field with spells and stats. Curious to hear what class you think is useless in 1.06 and before, they all have extremely powerful builds from what i have played(100+ hours). Unlike 1.10+ where everything other than light sorcs, light zons and hdins is slow at endgame and there exists a massive performance gap between dupeword & botter minmaxers and the regular players compared to the rare-based system of 1.06 and older. Also funny you say synergies make skills useful. When it and other expansion changes (no cool downs) decreased options of skills due to forced skill tree maxing, not increased them. The funny "theorycrafted" builds are only funny because they dont make sense within the gear and skill concept of 1.10+. You see, in the old patches the ED, +skills and cooldowns are very low compared to now, so the skill appliance mechanics are what matter Paladins sucked throught out the entire D2 history, and yes, my first class was a charge-hammerdin, way back in 1.01. The hammerdin back then was the only halfass viable build for a paladin to even try soloing act4, and even in that you had to have a handfull of rejs, because he sucked, HARD. I remember there was a cute (japanese?) comic strip showing how the characters destroy hordes of cows with their ultimate abilities -- the amazon with multiple shot, barbarian with whirlwind, sorceress with firewall and nova, necromancer by reviving the fallen cows, and the paladin was just sitting there in a corner with his head down. But I seem to be unable to find it D: Might have been patch 1.04 where conc didnt work, but in other patches to iterate my point, the balance before expansion was good, every class had power build
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On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote:
I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour.
Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd.
On August 02 2011 20:49 lofung wrote:
you know that in some part of the world, taiwan, at least, had a large wave of hacking over accounts with an authenticator binded in january this year? authenticator does put a higher cost on hacking but it will not soften the incentive to hack. real money AH does making everything worse while putting a cost on everyone, even if you are not spending the money.
I know there has been 1 trojan which attacked authenticators, but that is non-trivial and on the same level as TAN hacking for online banking. Additionally you immediately see it (as the attacker has a timing window of max a few minutes and it logs you out) and can take counter measures in time. Aside the fact that it is your own fault to get your machine infected in the first place.
On August 02 2011 20:49 okinoki wrote:
Riiiight. You like binding a paid game to an online account, don't you?
Imho this is the worst thing about the 'new' bnet (and Steam). It has some fancy features like downloading gameclients, but it always feel insecure. And i won't pay another 10 just to make sure (?) i can keep my purchased games. I agree that hacking may improve with this AH thingy though.
WTH has that to do with an authenticator (which you can get free for your mobile phone if you are too cheap to pay 5 euro)?
The authenticator is a token for security, just like the ones everyone uses for company VPN access or online banking... standard 2 factor security.
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The reason for d2jsps success was the absence of a real currency in diablo 2. It's not a shady itemshop and its purpose isn't exploiting people. Blizzard basically introduce the exact system with its auction house.
Here's how d2jsp works in a tl;dr version.
This is the trading forum for the european ladder: http://forums.d2jsp.org/forum.php?f=170
If you have a item, you can create an auction for it by creating a topic inside of this forum.
Here's an example of somebody selling his items using d2jsp topic: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56740410&f=170
The opening post lists all of the items this guy wants to sell.
The first reply in the thread is a guy offering 20 forum gold for an item called "heart of the oak": http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56740410&f=170&p=379352661
His avatar, on the left side, gives away various information about him. It tells you how much forum gold he has, when he joined and how many posts he has. This is useful information when evaluating wether or not you're in danger of being scammed; a guy that has many posts and has been a member for years will most likely not scan you when on the other hand, a guy thats been a member for 2 days and has only 2 posts might be using a throwaway account. The site offers a mediator service for when you want to trade with a guy that seems shady. Mediators are long-time members that are well respected in the community.
That's d2jsp in a nutshell. The advantages d2jsp offers should be obvious. It's not a scam or anything. The real money people are talking about comes from donations you can make to the site. To counteract inflation, the site offers services that will destroy forum gold. For example, you can buy tickets for a raffle, you can buy a colored nickname, you can buy a colored topic etc.
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just going to say
the fact that i know any item i get is worthless because anyone anywhere can just buy it ruins the entire game for me
people are wondering why people like me are upset. because this game is effectively ruined.
diablo is all about the items and the progression. the combat is a plus, there are games that do it better.
once again. game is ruined. Blizzard lost a sale out of me by pushing this system. congratulations on that.
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I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account)
What I'm worried about is character individuality; I can't see many ways for your sorc to be any different to anyone elses sorc with no stat or skill points; and I feel as though this is a core part of any RPG, even ARPGs.
Also why is blizzard even bothering with arena if they can't balance it, just give people an optional hostility box when they make a game and be done with it. Player driven PvP is normally more fun anyway.
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On August 02 2011 20:58 zbedlam wrote:
I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account)
it wont. it will encourage it.
you can easily transfer money from your blizzard account into paypal at an additional fee.
it wont shut down anything. it will encourage it. item selling will be rampant.
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On August 02 2011 21:00 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 20:58 zbedlam wrote:
I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account) it wont. it will encourage it. you can easily transfer money from your blizzard account into paypal at an additional fee. it wont shut down anything. it will encourage it. item selling will be rampant.
Can you source this? Because I was pretty sure money you earned stayed on bnet. If you're right though; yeah this game is pretty much fucked.
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On August 02 2011 20:56 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
That's d2jsp in a nutshell. The advantages d2jsp offers should be obvious. It's not a scam or anything. The real money people are talking about comes from donations you can make to the site. To counteract inflation, the site offers services that will destroy forum gold. For example, you can buy tickets for a raffle, you can buy a colored nickname, you can buy a colored topic etc.
Still all fg (except for the very very little from back when you got 1 per posting you made) comes from donations and the total amount should be several million dollars by now..
I think the availability of cheap duped runes (half the price at other itemstores if you calculate the price of donations for fg) was the leading factor rather than the lack of a trade currency...
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On August 02 2011 21:01 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 21:00 MavercK wrote:On August 02 2011 20:58 zbedlam wrote:
I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account) it wont. it will encourage it. you can easily transfer money from your blizzard account into paypal at an additional fee. it wont shut down anything. it will encourage it. item selling will be rampant. Can you source this? Because I was pretty sure money you earned stayed on bnet. If you're right though; yeah this game is pretty much fucked.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/misc/9047-Auction-House-FAQ
Q) Can players choose to get cash from currency-based auction house sales, instead of having the proceeds deposited into their Battle.net account?
A) Yes, as an advanced feature, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Note that this process will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house that have been deposited into the Battle.net account will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.
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As soon as this game releases, I'm going to be switching out of SC2. Just because of one epic spell of the witch doctor - Zombies climbing out of the ground and jumping onto each other's shoulders to form a zombie tower and then leaning forward and exploding to cause destruction in one straight line. MOST EPIC SPELL EVER ZOMG.
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I have a quick question about the AH, Say i played D3 without using real money on the AH and i stubble across a very rare item which is worth $40 so i decide to sell it for real money, So i add some real money currency on to my Bnet account and i put the item up. It sells and now i have say $45 currency is there a way for me to redraw my money from the ingame money and back into my account which is real life money ??? Thanks in advance
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On August 02 2011 21:02 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 21:01 zbedlam wrote:On August 02 2011 21:00 MavercK wrote:On August 02 2011 20:58 zbedlam wrote:
I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account) it wont. it will encourage it. you can easily transfer money from your blizzard account into paypal at an additional fee. it wont shut down anything. it will encourage it. item selling will be rampant. Can you source this? Because I was pretty sure money you earned stayed on bnet. If you're right though; yeah this game is pretty much fucked. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/misc/9047-Auction-House-FAQQ) Can players choose to get cash from currency-based auction house sales, instead of having the proceeds deposited into their Battle.net account? A) Yes, as an advanced feature, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Note that this process will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house that have been deposited into the Battle.net account will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.
Once you sell an item, you have to decide to "cash out" or to put it on your ebalance for the Blizzard Store /ingame. When it is on ebalance, you are not able to withdraw it any further.
Given the fees it takes for real money transactions (30-50 Cent or more is the raw cost for a CC/PP tranaction, so with a server provicer in between, rather more!) applied to each small sale, there is a huge incentive to rather put it on ebalance which means no payout to real money...
The big question is if you can accumulate small sales into one payout or not. If not, most real money sales will be for huge chunks of ingame gold I suppose.
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On August 02 2011 20:56 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 20:49 lofung wrote:
you know that in some part of the world, taiwan, at least, had a large wave of hacking over accounts with an authenticator binded in january this year? authenticator does put a higher cost on hacking but it will not soften the incentive to hack. real money AH does making everything worse while putting a cost on everyone, even if you are not spending the money.
I know there has been 1 trojan which attacked authenticators, but that is non-trivial and on the same level as TAN hacking for online banking. Additionally you immediately see it (as the attacker has a timing window of max a few minutes and it logs you out) and can take counter measures in time. Aside the fact that it is your own fault to get your machine infected in the first place.
that really showed your intelligence. go read about the taiwan issues if you actually know it. it has nothing to do with the client side but server side as some people had tried to change password and play with a completely clean new pc and seperate internet access with wow only in it and still get fucked. a significant amount of accounts are surrendered first time since release of the game, including 30 of my friends who had never been hacked in anyway. and dun say it like everyone would be online 24/7 and can immediately detect it like you just sit in front of the computer. not to mention lousy customer services given by local distributors where you need to mess with them for 1 month to get back what you had.
and it is legal only to play on those servers.
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On August 02 2011 21:02 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 21:01 zbedlam wrote:On August 02 2011 21:00 MavercK wrote:On August 02 2011 20:58 zbedlam wrote:
I think blizzard's stance on the AH is pure genius actually. Firstly, if they didn't do it someone else would. Secondly it is the only way I can think of that completely shuts down professional farming.(as from what I understand, you can't withdraw money tied to your bnet account) it wont. it will encourage it. you can easily transfer money from your blizzard account into paypal at an additional fee. it wont shut down anything. it will encourage it. item selling will be rampant. Can you source this? Because I was pretty sure money you earned stayed on bnet. If you're right though; yeah this game is pretty much fucked. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/misc/9047-Auction-House-FAQQ) Can players choose to get cash from currency-based auction house sales, instead of having the proceeds deposited into their Battle.net account? A) Yes, as an advanced feature, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Note that this process will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the currency-based auction house that have been deposited into the Battle.net account will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.
Oh wow, thanks for the link.
Yeah having serious doubts about d3 now.
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On August 02 2011 20:56 Artrey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2011 20:36 Zpm wrote:
I think the main thing here is that they are making this officially approved behaviour.
Sure you could buy gold/items and stuff in d2 or WoW but my perception is that people doing it were looked down to by most of the legit players... And legit players are the crushing majority, this is something that seems to escape some of the reasoning behind the RMAH...
You have not played in the recent patches, have you? EVERYONE used d2jsp... definitely not a minority, especially not of the players that invested a lot of time or pvpd. On August 02 2011 20:49 lofung wrote:
you know that in some part of the world, taiwan, at least, had a large wave of hacking over accounts with an authenticator binded in january this year? authenticator does put a higher cost on hacking but it will not soften the incentive to hack. real money AH does making everything worse while putting a cost on everyone, even if you are not spending the money.
I know there has been 1 trojan which attacked authenticators, but that is non-trivial and on the same level as TAN hacking for online banking. Additionally you immediately see it (as the attacker has a timing window of max a few minutes and it logs you out) and can take counter measures in time. Aside the fact that it is your own fault to get your machine infected in the first place. On August 02 2011 20:49 okinoki wrote:
Riiiight. You like binding a paid game to an online account, don't you?
Imho this is the worst thing about the 'new' bnet (and Steam). It has some fancy features like downloading gameclients, but it always feel insecure. And i won't pay another 10 just to make sure (?) i can keep my purchased games. I agree that hacking may improve with this AH thingy though. WTH has that to do with an authenticator (which you can get free for your mobile phone if you are too cheap to pay 5 euro)? The authenticator is a token for security, just like the ones everyone uses for company VPN access or online banking... standard 2 factor security.
Awesome, i can get some free stuff for a mobile phone that costs 300+EUR. I dont have one. I have a phone which can do phone calls. Maybe I'm just to 'cheap' for modern society. But I think that 50EUR for a computer game is freaking expensive. Also paying 700EUR for an iPhone is kinda disturbed imo. But well.. No offense dude, but you been the one calling others idiots.
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On August 02 2011 21:02 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 20:56 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
That's d2jsp in a nutshell. The advantages d2jsp offers should be obvious. It's not a scam or anything. The real money people are talking about comes from donations you can make to the site. To counteract inflation, the site offers services that will destroy forum gold. For example, you can buy tickets for a raffle, you can buy a colored nickname, you can buy a colored topic etc.
Still all fg (except for the very very little from back when you got 1 per posting you made) comes from donations and the total amount should be several million dollars by now.. I think the availability of cheap duped runes (half the price at other itemstores if you calculate the price of donations for fg) was the leading factor rather than the lack of a trade currency...
Yes. Blizzard employs the same system with a few differences.
#1 The currency will be created by playing the game.
#2 The currency can be freely exchanged for money and back.
#3 You won't have to worry about scams.
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Is anyone else having problems downloading the beta-opt in program?
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EPT
