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On May 13 2011 13:02 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. lol .. look up my account on GG.net .. I've followed Starcraft when Savior was defeated by up and coming Bisu.
Dude, you are so new school omg! D:
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On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene.
This is true.
This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce."
Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this?
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On May 13 2011 12:45 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 12:43 Fraidnot wrote:On May 13 2011 12:37 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 13 2011 12:33 Fraidnot wrote:On May 13 2011 12:18 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 13 2011 12:14 Fraidnot wrote:On May 13 2011 12:05 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 13 2011 12:03 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:
[quote]
I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread.
Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW.
If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch MC has made about 164k in 4 months. the amount of money he makes is not even stable.If he slumps now how won't make any money because all his money is from tournment winnings,oGs's sponsors does not pay its players any salaries. If the OP was right(which he isn't) Flash would just be playing against a bunch of skill less noobs who he would dominate. Flash would easily win every tournament without trying and would make even more money than MC. You can't say that Flash would dominate, but wouldn't make as much money. I never said that he wouldn't make as much money,of course he would,he would dominate the shit out of everyone :p. There is some bias in the post,but it is backed up with facts. Facts? Facts!? Conjecture and correlated statistics are not facts! who said I'm using the stats that Intrigue used.I'm basing my facts on actually watching his play and his actual track record. So your 'facts' are based on even less quantitative material? Wow, just wow. What are these 'facts' anyways? Just watch him play.:p I did explain why he would dominate in an earlier post I made. just a sec. of course I can always count on moopie to pull out some real facts. + Show Spoiler +On May 13 2011 00:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
trolololol
anyways this is why I thinkknow TBLS will dominate SC2 if the switch over since so many of you are convinced that because some former BW players are not dominating none of them can.
what do you need to be top of the top in BW.
1)Mechanics
2)Game Sense
3)Decision Making
2 and 3 combined makes strategy.
now TBLS are the masters of mechanics but what truly puts them on top is their Game sense and Decision making.
What do you need in SC2?
well mechanics are much much much easier in SC2 thanks to MBS and Automine(so everyone's mechanics are pretty much the same at the highest of the highest levels).
you are left with Game sense and Decision making which most players do lack behind the TBLS,without mechanics limiting them as much they will dominate.
What is TBLS?figure that out,atleast then you might learn some BW knowledge.
That's just evidence that suggests Flash would be good not facts that Flash would be good. Evidence does not equate fact. So come back when you got something tangible.
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Sorry, but your rhetorical efforts to defuse the obvious response, "It's a different game," fail completely.
It's a different game.
The mix of skills required are different enough from BW, that at the very tippy-top of the rankings, players who have the ideal mix for SC2 will rise to the top, even if they were not at the top of the BW rankings. As an analogy, take the sport of swimming; swimmers who gold medal at the 50 m breaststroke rarely gold medal at 400 m breaststroke, even though it is the same stroke! Yes, they are similar, but they are not the same.
We see this with the performance of world-class WC3 players. They are not tearing it up, either. Why not? Because it's a different game.
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On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this?
I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential.
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On May 13 2011 13:02 SpaceYeti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:58 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should. Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about? Wow....just wow. I don't even know what to say here; this is just so sad.  I might be one of those who joined TL.net with SC2 Beta, so maybe I'm not in a position to point this out, but it is really disheartening to see people with this attitude towards the game that really started it all for professional, competitive RTS. I'll be honest, I didn't learn who Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, July, NaDa, or BoxeR were until after I joined TL.net, but when I did and I read about what they accomplished and watched VODs of their games on YouTube, etc., I realized that I had been missing out on something amazing. I have yet to see anything of that caliber in SC2.
This guy knows his stuff. Humble virgin to the starcraft scene who appreciates the history of starcraft in general.
honestlyy I'm willing to bet most people here shutting down sc1 are just newbies fresh to the starcraft scene who have something against sc1 (be it the graphics or something else). I see more of these types of people than sc1 players who shut down sc2 (which they shouldn't because sc2 is the successor to a legendary game). There's nothing wrong with liking both games.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On May 13 2011 13:07 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:02 SpaceYeti wrote:On May 13 2011 11:58 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should. Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about? Wow....just wow. I don't even know what to say here; this is just so sad. I might be one of those who joined TL.net with SC2 Beta, so maybe I'm not in a position to point this out, but it is really disheartening to see people with this attitude towards the game that really started it all for professional, competitive RTS. I'll be honest, I didn't learn who Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, July, NaDa, or BoxeR were until after I joined TL.net, but when I did and I read about what they accomplished and watched VODs of their games on YouTube, etc., I realized that I had been missing out on something amazing. I have yet to see anything of that caliber in SC2. This guy knows his stuff. Humble virgin to the starcraft scene who appreciates the history of starcraft in general. honestlyy I'm willing to bet most people here shutting down sc1 are just newbies fresh to the starcraft scene who have something against sc1 (be it the graphics or something else). I see more of these types of people than sc1 players who shut down sc2 (which they shouldn't because sc2 is the successor to a legendary game). There's nothing wrong with liking both games.
I love both games 
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On May 13 2011 13:07 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this? I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential.
It's an opinion that does not need to be said, and especially on the front page of a SC2-focused website.
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On May 13 2011 13:09 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:07 rysecake wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 SpaceYeti wrote:On May 13 2011 11:58 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should. Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about? Wow....just wow. I don't even know what to say here; this is just so sad. I might be one of those who joined TL.net with SC2 Beta, so maybe I'm not in a position to point this out, but it is really disheartening to see people with this attitude towards the game that really started it all for professional, competitive RTS. I'll be honest, I didn't learn who Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, July, NaDa, or BoxeR were until after I joined TL.net, but when I did and I read about what they accomplished and watched VODs of their games on YouTube, etc., I realized that I had been missing out on something amazing. I have yet to see anything of that caliber in SC2. This guy knows his stuff. Humble virgin to the starcraft scene who appreciates the history of starcraft in general. honestlyy I'm willing to bet most people here shutting down sc1 are just newbies fresh to the starcraft scene who have something against sc1 (be it the graphics or something else). I see more of these types of people than sc1 players who shut down sc2 (which they shouldn't because sc2 is the successor to a legendary game). There's nothing wrong with liking both games. I love both games
But you love Cornell more than me and Sheep! D:
And as an additional note....I would like SC2....
If only my computer didn't freeze when a single templar caused my computer to crash.
On May 13 2011 13:09 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:07 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this? I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential. It's an opinion that does not need to be said, and especially on the front page of a SC2-focused website.
1. It is an opinion that deserves to be said if it's well founded. And clearly you haven't paid enough attention to the post to really appreciate the position.
2. It's not an SC2-focused website. It's a website about Starcraft, not 1 or 2.
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Wow. I am amazed at Hot_bids narrow mindset and the writer's biased beliefs and the fact that he tries to round up 6 different points with some statistics and out of context quotes. This is more hurting for e-sport than helping, really. One side of the story too.
Oh, and when I read the part about JD and Flash I just rolled my eyes and thought to myself "How the fuck can this passive aggressive guy use one of the oldest arguements in an article that already falling apart?".
Horrible piece of written material.
Not saying that everything's wrong, but I hate to read shit that tries to do all the thinking for you and make you go "Ah, so correct!" without even applying a single fucking self-constructed thought to the proposition of the argument.
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On May 13 2011 13:02 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. lol .. look up my account on GG.net .. I've followed Starcraft when Savior was defeated by up and coming Bisu. How is it exaggerated? Seems pretty accurate to me. SC2 was over hyped even before beta began. I mean, I too was looking forward in playing the game. But when they removed all the good things about BW. That was it for me. With The Clueless Browder running behind the scene, SC2 is bound to be just another RTS. The proscene you are now witnessing in SC2 is because of BW's glorious scene.
I've been following pro SC since the days of Grrr, BoxeR and Yellow, but I don't need to make snobby elitist posts like yours. It's exaggerated because it's all theorizing, since no one knows how far ahead any of TBLS would be against the current crop of SC2 players. Obviously they'll probably be the best in the scene, but doesn't mean they'll be completely untouchable.
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On May 13 2011 13:09 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:07 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this? I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential. It's an opinion that does not need to be said, and especially on the front page of a SC2-focused website.
I agree to 100%. All this actually states is that every progamer us sc2 fanboys are a fan of are a piece of fucking trash and won't be worth a dime in 6 months.
It's not a OP that opens up to discussion, it rather closes it by saying that every SC2 player sucks, and that if we're lucky, a SC:BW B teamer might switch over to own everyone.
It's considered rude, and it's stunning that it's got the front page.
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On May 13 2011 04:50 Pleiades wrote:
Until SC2: Legacy of the Void comes out and Blizzard balances the entire game in stone, we can make better comparisons. SC2 is still in it's infancy as an E-Sport.
I know i already posted a few comments on the thread.. But i repeatedly see this "more expansions" thing from the SC2 people..
Am i not allowed to critique a game for what it is now, simply because it will have an expansion in the future?.. Will SC2 stay good no matter what if Blizz reschedule Legacy of the Void's release to be in another 50 years?
If the expansions makes the game beautiful, i (along with many many others) would profess my/our love for it without restraint (like mine for Bisu BW).. For now, let me express my honest opinion that i dont find it very good.
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On May 13 2011 13:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:09 l10f wrote:On May 13 2011 13:07 rysecake wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 SpaceYeti wrote:On May 13 2011 11:58 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should. Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about? Wow....just wow. I don't even know what to say here; this is just so sad. I might be one of those who joined TL.net with SC2 Beta, so maybe I'm not in a position to point this out, but it is really disheartening to see people with this attitude towards the game that really started it all for professional, competitive RTS. I'll be honest, I didn't learn who Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, July, NaDa, or BoxeR were until after I joined TL.net, but when I did and I read about what they accomplished and watched VODs of their games on YouTube, etc., I realized that I had been missing out on something amazing. I have yet to see anything of that caliber in SC2. This guy knows his stuff. Humble virgin to the starcraft scene who appreciates the history of starcraft in general. honestlyy I'm willing to bet most people here shutting down sc1 are just newbies fresh to the starcraft scene who have something against sc1 (be it the graphics or something else). I see more of these types of people than sc1 players who shut down sc2 (which they shouldn't because sc2 is the successor to a legendary game). There's nothing wrong with liking both games. I love both games But you love Cornell more than me and Sheep! D: And as an additional note....I would like SC2.... If only my computer didn't freeze when a single templar caused my computer to crash. Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:09 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:07 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this? I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential. It's an opinion that does not need to be said, and especially on the front page of a SC2-focused website. 1. It is an opinion that deserves to be said if it's well founded. And clearly you haven't paid enough attention to the post to really appreciate the position. 2. It's not an SC2-focused website. It's a website about Starcraft, not 1 or 2.
I have asked this question 2 times already, and I'll ask it again.
What is this supposed to accomplish? What positives were garnered from the editorial other than making a lot of people upset?
It's about as effective as writing personal letters to pro sc2 players telling them they suck and should practice more if they ever want to be as good as SC1 pros.
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On May 13 2011 13:04 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:02 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. lol .. look up my account on GG.net .. I've followed Starcraft when Savior was defeated by up and coming Bisu. Dude, you are so new school omg! D:
lol not entirely, I've known SC had a proscene since 2004 back then but never really took it seriously since I was blinded by the awesomesauce of DotA. but yeah I still consider myself new compared to the guys who followed the scene way back when Nada, July, or Nal_ra or even Boxer were at their peak of fame.
On May 13 2011 13:12 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:02 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. lol .. look up my account on GG.net .. I've followed Starcraft when Savior was defeated by up and coming Bisu. How is it exaggerated? Seems pretty accurate to me. SC2 was over hyped even before beta began. I mean, I too was looking forward in playing the game. But when they removed all the good things about BW. That was it for me. With The Clueless Browder running behind the scene, SC2 is bound to be just another RTS. The proscene you are now witnessing in SC2 is because of BW's glorious scene. I've been following pro SC since the days of Grrr, BoxeR and Yellow, but I don't need to make snobby elitist posts like yours. It's exaggerated because it's all theorizing, since no one knows how far ahead any of TBLS would be against the current crop of SC2 players. Obviously they'll probably be the best in the scene, but doesn't mean they'll be completely untouchable.
Where in my post that I was a snobby elitist??
All of it are just my opinions coupled with facts. Nothing more. You're the one here accusing me of elitist when infact you yourself claim to follow way back.
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On May 13 2011 13:07 out4blood wrote:
Sorry, but your rhetorical efforts to defuse the obvious response, "It's a different game," fail completely.
It's a different game.
The mix of skills required are different enough from BW, that at the very tippy-top of the rankings, players who have the ideal mix for SC2 will rise to the top, even if they were not at the top of the BW rankings. As an analogy, take the sport of swimming; swimmers who gold medal at the 50 m breaststroke rarely gold medal at 400 m breaststroke, even though it is the same stroke! Yes, they are similar, but they are not the same.
We see this with the performance of world-class WC3 players. They are not tearing it up, either. Why not? Because it's a different game.
Michael Phelps is to Swimming as Flash or Jaedong are to Starcraft.
And BW players ARE tearing it up. 5/5 GSLs have gone to Broodwar Players. When hasn't a final gone to one of the former BW pros?
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On May 13 2011 13:13 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:09 l10f wrote:On May 13 2011 13:07 rysecake wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 SpaceYeti wrote:On May 13 2011 11:58 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should. Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about? Wow....just wow. I don't even know what to say here; this is just so sad. I might be one of those who joined TL.net with SC2 Beta, so maybe I'm not in a position to point this out, but it is really disheartening to see people with this attitude towards the game that really started it all for professional, competitive RTS. I'll be honest, I didn't learn who Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, July, NaDa, or BoxeR were until after I joined TL.net, but when I did and I read about what they accomplished and watched VODs of their games on YouTube, etc., I realized that I had been missing out on something amazing. I have yet to see anything of that caliber in SC2. This guy knows his stuff. Humble virgin to the starcraft scene who appreciates the history of starcraft in general. honestlyy I'm willing to bet most people here shutting down sc1 are just newbies fresh to the starcraft scene who have something against sc1 (be it the graphics or something else). I see more of these types of people than sc1 players who shut down sc2 (which they shouldn't because sc2 is the successor to a legendary game). There's nothing wrong with liking both games. I love both games But you love Cornell more than me and Sheep! D: And as an additional note....I would like SC2.... If only my computer didn't freeze when a single templar caused my computer to crash. On May 13 2011 13:09 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:07 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:05 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 13:02 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Um....isn't this article talking about the competition of the games....not which game is better?
Why are half of the people here thinking that it's an attack on SC2?
It's not. It's an argument stating that the best competition in SC2 has yet to come because the current crop is, at this point, comparatively worse than those who are dominating the BW scene. This is true. This line - "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." Is not true. How can you not see the problem with this? I don't see a problem with it. It's intrigue's opinion, and I partially agree. If you read the rest of his post, he give you a very compelling reason as to why the current scene is nothing compared to its true potential. It's an opinion that does not need to be said, and especially on the front page of a SC2-focused website. 1. It is an opinion that deserves to be said if it's well founded. And clearly you haven't paid enough attention to the post to really appreciate the position. 2. It's not an SC2-focused website. It's a website about Starcraft, not 1 or 2. I have asked this question 2 times already, and I'll ask it again. What is this supposed to accomplish? What positives were garnered from the editorial other than making a lot of people upset? It's about as effective as writing personal letters to pro sc2 players telling them they suck and should practice more if they ever want to be as good as SC1 pros.
Does an editorial need a point? Really, the only thing it needs to do is to spur on dialogue and discussion. I believe there's genuine arguments that point out that SC2's competition is lackluster compared to BW, and those arguments should be heard and considered before people say: "What you doing brrrooo?"
And since when were editorials supposed to be positive? Are we supposed to be constantly praising something that some people don't believe deserve praise? Of course not. There's two sides to every argument, and in this case, there's someone who's trying to point out something flawed in the status quo...
That's why there's "letters to the editor"...because there ARE people dissatisfied, and they have a RIGHT to voice said dissatisfcation.
And because people have honestly been spoiled by all the hype of SC2 and the tournaments....which is fine I guess....there's all the more outrage over a different opinion that's merely trying to express a point with hard facts and evidence.
It wasn't a baseless claim. It was argued.
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On May 13 2011 00:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
trolololol
anyways this is why I thinkknow TBLS will dominate SC2 if the switch over since so many of you are convinced that because some former BW players are not dominating none of them can.
what do you need to be top of the top in BW.
1)Mechanics
2)Game Sense
3)Decision Making
2 and 3 combined makes strategy.
now TBLS are the masters of mechanics but what truly puts them on top is their Game sense and Decision making.
What do you need in SC2?
well mechanics are much much much easier in SC2 thanks to MBS and Automine(so everyone's mechanics are pretty much the same at the highest of the highest levels).
you are left with Game sense and Decision making which most players do lack behind the TBLS,without mechanics limiting them as much they will dominate.
What is TBLS?figure that out,atleast then you might learn some BW knowledge.
The other guy had a weak rebuttal, so I thought I would chime in and it goes back to what I said earlier about Flash.
He's fast yes.
Has good mechanics, yes. I believe he can adapt to the new interface rather quickly.
Your last two points with regards to Game Sense and Decision-making. Trail and error. Same rules apply for when he was 9 to 16. Game sense and decision-making come with time. He's going to lose a whole lot before he starts winning shit just like his early days in Brood War. There will be an adjustment period and how long this adjustment period is any person's guess.
In SC2 there are a lot more time attacks that can wipe you out in a heart beat. I think there will be a lot of growing pains for any player that makes the switch, but eventually yeah these guys could be very good.
aimaimaim
lol not entirely, I've known SC had a proscene since 2004 back then but never really took it seriously since I was blinded by the awesomesauce of DotA. but yeah I still consider myself new compared to the guys who followed the scene way back when Nada, July, or Nal_ra or even Boxer were at their peak of fame.
I was razzing you. :o You came into the scene at a good time. Bisu dismantling Savior was pretty fun to watch.
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On May 13 2011 13:09 l10f wrote:I love both games
Me too!
Bro five!
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This thread, while maybe not an attack on SC2, is an attack on fans of SC2 players, or those fan favorites themselves. It's basically a snobbish way of saying something like, "Lol, stupid American can't appreciate real food," because I don't like escargot. In before the analogy police, just let it be. Do Americans laugh at Europeans and their basketball teams? Well, yes, but I, personally, find such behavior rude and distasteful. And we already know that particular skill gap is closing, although there still is greater incentive in the U.S. with the salaries NBA players receive, and the "way out of poverty for poor kids"--well that's mostly another discussion. That point being that it's just another talent pool that is defined by what's socially acceptable. Korea has BW and U.S. has basketball; Brazil? Duh.
You can apply the same theory to a lot of stuff. If everyone in the world received a solid musical education during the 18th and 19th century, chances are there would have been a better composer than (insert your favorite here), for example, Mozart. I realize there's a difference as that's history, but we have 7 billion people alive today, many of which never receive chances to excel at music, basketball, or Starcraft. I'm not going to waste time pining away on "what could have been" because of all of the untapped talent (but it is sad and I think about it in a general sense when I hear the typical news from Africa).
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EPT
