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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18195 Posts
On May 09 2019 20:54 Nakajin wrote: Maybe Martin was waiting to see how his planned ending was receive before restarting the books, there's maybe some hope. Imagine if the show completely botches the ending. And then GRRM says "yeah, that was the plan all along" :O | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
The show on the other hand just wants to shove in the highlight moments and doesn't care if the path to get there makes any sense or not. I expect that if Martin ever finishes the series, it will be significantly different from what we see on the show, even if the over all "winner" of the Iron Throne is the same. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
And then season 8 they're like, okay, now we gotta manage to get it back to martin's proposed ending. That does sound like a pretty rough task. Myself I'm totally enjoying these episodes. I had bigger problems with some moments in season 7 than I've had with any scenes of season 8 so far. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22064 Posts
On May 09 2019 20:54 Nakajin wrote: You can hope that, but my guess is simply with Martin having no clue how he can possibly resolve all the different threads of his story and that is paralysing his ability to actually write.Maybe Martin was waiting to see how his planned ending was receive before restarting the books, there's maybe some hope. Who knows, maybe seeing the botched ending (assuming the writing doesn't suddenly increase dramatically) for the series he will finally get the impulse to finish his work. But there to I fear he will be unable to live up to expectations. | ||
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VHbb
691 Posts
On May 09 2019 21:36 Liquid`Drone wrote: martin has said that the show is going to end very similarly to the books. But the journey there is different. Which again makes it pretty understandable that the last episodes are going to be a bit wonky; book and show are basically the same for the first season, then during season 2 and 3 it starts deviating a bit more, then season 4 onwards more and more, butterfly effect etc where small changes in season 2 becomes a huge change in season 6. So then season 6 and 7 is just completely different. And then season 8 they're like, okay, now we gotta manage to get it back to martin's proposed ending. That does sound like a pretty rough task. Myself I'm totally enjoying these episodes. I had bigger problems with some moments in season 7 than I've had with any scenes of season 8 so far. Yep same here, I'm enjoying the show, and to be honest I am a bit surprised by the reactions in this thread, which seems very extreme in the negative. My friends are also overall liking the last season (more than the 7th as well).. maybe we are just "normies"  I too have some negative comments, and for sure the tone changed quite a bit compared to the first seasons, but nothing that makes me dislike the show too much. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18566 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On May 09 2019 21:36 Liquid`Drone wrote: martin has said that the show is going to end very similarly to the books. But the journey there is different. Which again makes it pretty understandable that the last episodes are going to be a bit wonky; book and show are basically the same for the first season, then during season 2 and 3 it starts deviating a bit more, then season 4 onwards more and more, butterfly effect etc where small changes in season 2 becomes a huge change in season 6. So then season 6 and 7 is just completely different. And then season 8 they're like, okay, now we gotta manage to get it back to martin's proposed ending. That does sound like a pretty rough task. Myself I'm totally enjoying these episodes. I had bigger problems with some moments in season 7 than I've had with any scenes of season 8 so far. I get that that's the consensus interpretation of his 60 minutes interview, but I think he was actually quite ambiguous. For example, he says the ending won't be that different because of what he discussed with the show writers but then says that people will fight on the internet about which ending is better. He also compares the books and tv show to different adaptations of Spider-Man, that share the same themes but whole different characters (and people will hardly call them the same stories). There's also a chance that by saying both will end "the same", it just means something like "white walkers are defeated and the centralized monarchy is abolished". | ||
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VHbb
691 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On May 09 2019 22:01 Sbrubbles wrote: I get that that's the consensus interpretation of his 60 minutes interview, but I think he was actually quite ambiguous. For example, he says the ending won't be that different because of what he discussed with the show writers but then says that people will fight on the internet about which ending is better. He also compares the books and tv show to different adaptations of Spider-Man, that share the same themes but whole different characters (and people will hardly call them the same stories). There's also a chance that by saying both will end "the same", it just means something like "white walkers are defeated and the centralized monarchy is abolished". agreed, the ending over all meaning or result regarding the state of westros may be the same but i highly doubt that the books will go the way of ending storylines that we've seen in the show. Martin has, young griff competing for the throne, euron doesnt have a way to kill a dragon but can enslave one (or so he claims), the wall is up and atm theres nothing to suggest the others can breach it (althought euron seems to be insane and hinted as linked to the others) so maybe he enslaves a dragon to bring down the wall for the others (thats a popular theory). Ladystone heart is unresolved, dorne is unresolved, the stormlands are under griff, cersi hasnt exploded the sept so theres still that to deal with and i strongly believe the people are not going to be okay with that. So while "the wheel being broken" or killing of characters may happen, the journey for the books wont be the same as the show. I dont think this is GRRM testing plots to see if the audiences reactions, as the books already have things in place that cant follow into the show. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On May 09 2019 22:00 sharkie wrote: Season 7 definitely was worse with all that teleporting are we not watching the same season 8? arya stark nightcrawler teleports past hundreds of zombones into the air and gets the drop on ice king bronn gets an xbow and then teleports in to threaten jaime and tyrion, and presumably teleports back out euron blinks in and snipes a liberator, shoots down all the medivacs, and then teleports back out to join cersei | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10665 Posts
On May 09 2019 19:35 sharkie wrote: + Show Spoiler + oh god if those Tyrion spoilers are true even I will go batshit crazy + Show Spoiler + I just caught up with the leaks. They’re not THAT bad lol. Or maybe I’m just jaded at this point haha. Like, I’m literally laughing as I’m posting this because I cant imagine people’s reaction as the finale unfolds. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
like wtf was the point of feast for crows with the badass ending where the prince of dorne was all like: "yeah i'm going to get fucking revenge, why'd you think i wasn't?", only to be trashed in book 5, when he sent his son over to court dany and JK LOL he got rejected by dany and burned to death by dragon. THAT WAS HIS PLAN????? i'm glad the show killed off dorne because martin's storyline far worse. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 09 2019 23:35 fishjie wrote: GRRM will never finish, unless he gets what's known as a Product manager/project manager/technical project manager/product owner. essentially, GRRM's greatest strength is his weakness. he is a gardener. he plants the characters, and watches them grow and sees that direction they go in. but these plants sprout additional seeds, until eventually there is an exponential explosion of characters. A PM/TPM is needed go in and ruthlessly cut scope, weed out everything, kill shit (feast for crows and dance w dragons should've been ONE book). like wtf was the point of feast for crows with the badass ending where the prince of dorne was all like: "yeah i'm going to get fucking revenge, why'd you think i wasn't?", only to be trashed in book 5, when he sent his son over to court dany and JK LOL he got rejected by dany and burned to death by dragon. THAT WAS HIS PLAN????? i'm glad the show killed off dorne because martin's storyline far worse. The point was to setup another player in the game, there was already a marriage pact between the dornish and the targaryens before that, but viserys died. Offering another alliance seems only logical. At the same time it was a subversion of the plotline of the young prince trying to get his princess. And as always, martin doesn't just do it for shock value, there is an actual consequence to it because it will directly lead to the dornish helping another dragon, setting up the 2nd dance. Saying this is worse than what the show did with dorne (and we didn't even talk about what happened in dorne with arianne's queenmaker plot, and the apparent plan with the sandsnakes) is ludicrous | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 09 2019 23:35 fishjie wrote: GRRM will never finish, unless he gets what's known as a Product manager/project manager/technical project manager/product owner. essentially, GRRM's greatest strength is his weakness. he is a gardener. he plants the characters, and watches them grow and sees that direction they go in. but these plants sprout additional seeds, until eventually there is an exponential explosion of characters. A PM/TPM is needed go in and ruthlessly cut scope, weed out everything, kill shit (feast for crows and dance w dragons should've been ONE book). like wtf was the point of feast for crows with the badass ending where the prince of dorne was all like: "yeah i'm going to get fucking revenge, why'd you think i wasn't?", only to be trashed in book 5, when he sent his son over to court dany and JK LOL he got rejected by dany and burned to death by dragon. THAT WAS HIS PLAN????? i'm glad the show killed off dorne because martin's storyline far worse. What? The storyline there makes pretty good sense... There's an implication he had made specific arrangements to marry Elia to Viserys and was going to act on them, but those fell through so he made a more desperate attempt to marry off his son instead which was always going to be much harder with Dany's position and power. And they're not trashed yet? They still have their whole army intact from not engaging in the previous wars. They may not have a 'crush everyone' sized army, but they're certainly going to be a major tipping point of power and could be very interesting later if they have to choose between Jon, "Aegon", and Dany. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On May 09 2019 23:51 The_Red_Viper wrote: The point was to setup another player in the game, there was already a marriage pact between the dornish and the targaryens before that, but viserys died. Offering another alliance seems only logical. At the same time it was a subversion of the plotline of the young prince trying to get his princess. And as always, martin doesn't just do it for shock value, there is an actual consequence to it because it will directly lead to the dornish helping another dragon, setting up the 2nd dance. Saying this is worse than what the show did with dorne (and we didn't even talk about what happened in dorne with arianne's queenmaker plot, and the apparent plan with the sandsnakes) is ludicrous in the book doran was only physically weak but was cold and calculating, and that was revealed at the end. he was like kaiser soze. i forget the exact quote but after stopping the sand snake rebellion he said he had his plan for revenge and it was clear he meant business. that was cool. not cool: book 5 LOL JK his plan went to shit. pointless. it was an entire waste of hundreds of pages of POV that should have been cut, and used to merge feast for crows and dance with dragons into one shortened and condensed book. he should have used those pages to figure out how to get dany out of mereen instead of languishing there. similarly, nobody gives a shit about the iron born, they did not need multiple POVs jesus christ. the show did good killing all of sandsnakes and terminating that plot. the show did bad by making the prince weak physically and mentally weak. they did him dirty. otherwise they had the right idea of terminating all the POV characters. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans. In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18566 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 09 2019 22:01 Sbrubbles wrote: I get that that's the consensus interpretation of his 60 minutes interview, but I think he was actually quite ambiguous. For example, he says the ending won't be that different because of what he discussed with the show writers but then says that people will fight on the internet about which ending is better. He also compares the books and tv show to different adaptations of Spider-Man, that share the same themes but whole different characters (and people will hardly call them the same stories). There's also a chance that by saying both will end "the same", it just means something like "white walkers are defeated and the centralized monarchy is abolished". In my dream fan fic is that White Walkers threat isn't some army, but a crack in the wall that allows the undead and white walkers to leak to the North. Including the ambient effect of the dead coming back. And the conflict isn't about fighting an army, but banding the north together to create a sustained military presence to defend repairs of the Wall with the help of Bran(therefore justifying him). It is less about bombastic conflict and more about the difficulties of collations and fixing things. Plus it would keep the white Walkers as a vague threat and not have a "Kill the big bad and all the problems are solved" ending. And then they team up with Danny for reasons, perhaps because she hears of the plight of the north and goes to help. Then they ride south to deal with Cersie. But that isn't going to happen because those books will never get written. Because the man is trying to write 7 books at once. Seriously, the plot of Jon Snow would a trilogy all its own. Same with Danny. Same with Arya. | ||
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