On May 10 2019 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: The plan didn't go to shit completely, they will just have another dragon they will support now. There are also other threads going on, the sandsnakes in the books are placed at key locations. We didn't see the full plan yet. Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans.
In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north.
that's the problem though, that plan is just going to generate even more POV characters. books 1-3 were tight, and action packed. 4-5 were dragged down. again, this is because GRRM strength is world building and planting a character like a gardener and seeing where the character will go. although he has some big picture idea of how the story ends, he's finding it really difficult to get the characters from point A to point B with his writing style.
originally feast for crows and dance with dragons was supposed to be told in quick flashbacks in winds of winter. they weren't going to be standalone books. that's where a PM/TPM type role in a corporation should have stepped in, told him STFU no one cares about dorne or iron borne, keep them as flashbacks!!!! and then saved everybody time and money, and given us winds of winter directly.
EDIT: similarly someone should've stepped in and said STFU nobody wants blood and fire right now, write the silmarillion AFTER LOTR is published not before!!!! and technically jrr tolkien didn't finish silmarillion, his son did. GRRM should have been paying close attention.
On May 10 2019 01:38 Logo wrote: There's a major reasons why the show is so one dimensional right now... there's not enough characters to easily support anything more. If we didn't want Euron's fleet to teleport in S7 and S8 we'd need another Cersei side army. Who would be a character figurehead of that? If we want people to question Dany's authority believably we need more people around her, but all we have are Varys (who's spent 8 seasons setting up her rule), and the Northeners neither of which are very believable at this point. And so on... So it's funny to say it's good to cut Dorne when that sort of shrinking of the cast is what gets you in this narrative mess to begin with.
On this I don't quite agree I think there are plenty of characters (also, Varys didn't support Dany at all in the first seasons, he actually tried to murder her following Robert's command) but the necessity to wrap up the different sub-plots to get to a single final storyline makes it so that most characters are "agreeing" with each other, and team up.
For instance, I like that in the recent episodes you can see some doubts in Tyrion and Varys, but it also feels a bit rushed because you know that in 2 episodes it'll be all done, so there isn't much time to develop that part of the story. Similarly for the rest, you know that it's going towards the end, so most of the characters don't have a well separated story arc, but things tend to merge together, which result in less complexity.
But this I think is less a fault of the writers, more a feature of the ending of a complex story.
Varys has always been setting up for a Targaryen ruler, it was just supposed to be Viserys at first so Dany was expendable. Well that doesn't make much sense either to be honest, but that's because the show cut out a character making Varys motivations somewhat awkwardly connected. But in effect this is the plot driver of part of season 1 and why Varys is working with Illyrio and trying to undermine Robert and the Lannister/Stark relations.
I think people use teleport differently, and I only find one way problematic. I don't want to watch the armies travel at this point. That was good for character building during earlier seasons (good conversations happen during travels), but now I don't really care. Then there's the 'person undertakes a 1 week journey in 1 day' type of teleporting which is really bad. Season 7 had the latter, I have not seen it in season 8.
On May 10 2019 02:35 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think people use teleport differently, and I only find one way problematic. I don't want to watch the armies travel at this point. That was good for character building during earlier seasons (good conversations happen during travels), but now I don't really care. Then there's the 'person undertakes a 1 week journey in 1 day' type of teleporting which is really bad. Season 7 had the latter, I have not seen it in season 8.
I think Bronn arguably teleports a bit by getting up to Winterfell, especially since he would have had to leave before knowing if the army of the dead was defeated or if he was walking into his own death. But it's not that big a deal like the S7 examples.
Asha's fleet teleports a bit but we don't see it (sailing all the way around Westeroes should take forever, but she does it by time Dany gets to Dragonstone). At this point they've pretty much just relocated the Iron Islands to the east side of the continent which really isn't that big a deal I guess?
Euron's fleet I agree though, they're actually in the absolutely most logical place for them to be (near Blackwater Bay) and are in a place that's very close to the place you'd expect the royal fleet to anchor at (King's Landing). But that just makes the scene even more ridiculous because it's the most obvious place for there to be trouble and the Dany fleet was still caught unguarded.
Certainly nothing as bad as the fleet teleporting from King's Landing to places that are on the opposite side of Dany's Army & fleet.
On May 10 2019 01:36 sharkie wrote: Fishje inwas arguing the exact same point about Martin but its no use discussing that with some people in here. They see him as some sort of jesus who wrote a new bible. Martin could duplicate arya killing night king scene of the show and his fans would call it ingenious and perfect
If you have any better arguments than this religious angle, something which actually counters what we present when we argue in favor of the books, then pls present it. Noone even said anything about genius work so far, not at all, you are literally making shit up while not engaging actual conversation. It's annoying and makes me question if you are just trolling/acting in bad faith or actually incapable of doing any form of analysis.
On May 10 2019 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: The plan didn't go to shit completely, they will just have another dragon they will support now. There are also other threads going on, the sandsnakes in the books are placed at key locations. We didn't see the full plan yet. Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans.
In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north.
that's the problem though, that plan is just going to generate even more POV characters. books 1-3 were tight, and action packed. 4-5 were dragged down. again, this is because GRRM strength is world building and planting a character like a gardener and seeing where the character will go. although he has some big picture idea of how the story ends, he's finding it really difficult to get the characters from point A to point B with his writing style.
originally feast for crows and dance with dragons was supposed to be told in quick flashbacks in winds of winter. they weren't going to be standalone books. that's where a PM/TPM type role in a corporation should have stepped in, told him STFU no one cares about dorne or iron borne, keep them as flashbacks!!!! and then saved everybody time and money, and given us winds of winter directly.
EDIT: similarly someone should've stepped in and said STFU nobody wants blood and fire right now, write the silmarillion AFTER LOTR is published not before!!!! and technically jrr tolkien didn't finish silmarillion, his son did. GRRM should have been paying close attention.
There won't be new POV characters, the key locations they are planted at already have POV characters. Books 1-3 weren't that much tighter, book 1 maybe but as soon as book 2 came around the world expanded and other major houses got included in the game of thrones. It is only natural and organic that these houses actually affect the big picture. This was clear from very early on.
The original plan was to have a time skip indeed and i am sure not doing that anymore made it harder for him to finish the series. But the reason he decided against it was because of cersei, jon, dany, arya and sansa the people who were in power/training. It would have been too awkward to retell what happened in these years, the structure would have been broken. It is fine if you dislike it, but you didn't really bring in any real arguments. Though i would certainly agree that especially adwd could have used some editing, so it at least ends with the battles which will now start twow.
I think people are really sleeping on the bullshit and controversy that surrounded the ending of lost. TWD was never good for more then the handful of the first couple episodes before the budget was cut and the showrunner was replaced.
Lost ran so far off the tracks that the ending is a wild unregonizealbe mess that was filled to the brim with lies. incompetence, and bullshit.
I welcome everyone to run through this rabbit hole with me before the end of the series.
Jamie leaves Kings Landing at the end of season 7, Cersei sends Bronn after him in episode 1? He gets there in episode 4. I don't actually see him as a horrible continuity breaking teleport.
A lot of 'teleporting' is just story telling without giving any indication of time passing which can make things really jarring.
It wasn't such a big deal in earlier seasons because there were enough story lines you got to see that time was assumed to have passed naturaly.
From person A to B to C to D back to A you assume time has passed for person A but now the story is jumping back to characters we just saw to quickly which breaks that feeling.
Like Eurons attack last episode, instead of going from Euron to the survivors getting out of the water and strait to Euron several hours later in King's Landing there needed to be 10 minutes of some other place in the world to allow time to pass, or put it on screen if you don't have enough happening to show in the meantime.
On May 10 2019 01:36 sharkie wrote: Fishje inwas arguing the exact same point about Martin but its no use discussing that with some people in here. They see him as some sort of jesus who wrote a new bible. Martin could duplicate arya killing night king scene of the show and his fans would call it ingenious and perfect
If you have any better arguments than this religious angle, something which actually counters what we present when we argue in favor of the books, then pls present it. Noone even said anything about genius work so far, not at all, you are literally making shit up while not engaging actual conversation. It's annoying and makes me question if you are just trolling/acting in bad faith or actually incapable of doing any form of analysis.
On May 10 2019 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: The plan didn't go to shit completely, they will just have another dragon they will support now. There are also other threads going on, the sandsnakes in the books are placed at key locations. We didn't see the full plan yet. Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans.
In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north.
that's the problem though, that plan is just going to generate even more POV characters. books 1-3 were tight, and action packed. 4-5 were dragged down. again, this is because GRRM strength is world building and planting a character like a gardener and seeing where the character will go. although he has some big picture idea of how the story ends, he's finding it really difficult to get the characters from point A to point B with his writing style.
originally feast for crows and dance with dragons was supposed to be told in quick flashbacks in winds of winter. they weren't going to be standalone books. that's where a PM/TPM type role in a corporation should have stepped in, told him STFU no one cares about dorne or iron borne, keep them as flashbacks!!!! and then saved everybody time and money, and given us winds of winter directly.
EDIT: similarly someone should've stepped in and said STFU nobody wants blood and fire right now, write the silmarillion AFTER LOTR is published not before!!!! and technically jrr tolkien didn't finish silmarillion, his son did. GRRM should have been paying close attention.
There won't be new POV characters, the key locations they are planted at already have POV characters. Books 1-3 weren't that much tighter, book 1 maybe but as soon as book 2 came around the world expanded and other major houses got included in the game of thrones. It is only natural and organic that these houses actually affect the big picture. This was clear from very early on.
The original plan was to have a time skip indeed and i am sure not doing that anymore made it harder for him to finish the series. But the reason he decided against it was because of cersei, jon, dany, arya and sansa the people who were in power/training. It would have been too awkward to retell what happened in these years, the structure would have been broken. It is fine if you dislike it, but you didn't really bring in any real arguments. Though i would certainly agree that especially adwd could have used some editing, so it at least ends with the battles which will now start twow.
how many POVs in feast for crows did you care about? its been almost over a decade since i read it, but there were a bunch of iron born, brienne walking around on a pointless errand to find arya and sansa (the show had arya + hound which i thoroughly enjoyed), and some sand snakes. samwell gets laid. sansa was in it but like most people i hated her chapters and they were boring. i guess she was being tutored by littlefinger and was going to get good eventually? nothing happened in that book, other than a cliffhanger ending. brienne is about to be hung and says a word. what word was it? i dunno but she's alive in book 5. the entire book could've been cut and nobody would have missed out. what he did well in FFC is his world building. its clear he took great care in it. its too bad nobody liked it.
in book 5, which its been like 6 years since i've read was a little better. tyrion had great dialogue but again nothing happened. he should have already ended up at dany's doorstep before the book ended, then he could have helped dany extricate herself from mereen using his smarts. dany is a teenage hormonal girl who fan girls over who to sleep with. jon snow dies and its clear he will be brought back. iirc ramsay bolton and stannis are about to fight.
come to think of it, GRRM's books follow the same progression of quality of the show. books 1 - 3 awesome, book 4 bad, book 5, slightly less bad.
On May 10 2019 01:36 sharkie wrote: Fishje inwas arguing the exact same point about Martin but its no use discussing that with some people in here. They see him as some sort of jesus who wrote a new bible. Martin could duplicate arya killing night king scene of the show and his fans would call it ingenious and perfect
If you have any better arguments than this religious angle, something which actually counters what we present when we argue in favor of the books, then pls present it. Noone even said anything about genius work so far, not at all, you are literally making shit up while not engaging actual conversation. It's annoying and makes me question if you are just trolling/acting in bad faith or actually incapable of doing any form of analysis.
On May 10 2019 02:08 fishjie wrote:
On May 10 2019 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: The plan didn't go to shit completely, they will just have another dragon they will support now. There are also other threads going on, the sandsnakes in the books are placed at key locations. We didn't see the full plan yet. Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans.
In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north.
that's the problem though, that plan is just going to generate even more POV characters. books 1-3 were tight, and action packed. 4-5 were dragged down. again, this is because GRRM strength is world building and planting a character like a gardener and seeing where the character will go. although he has some big picture idea of how the story ends, he's finding it really difficult to get the characters from point A to point B with his writing style.
originally feast for crows and dance with dragons was supposed to be told in quick flashbacks in winds of winter. they weren't going to be standalone books. that's where a PM/TPM type role in a corporation should have stepped in, told him STFU no one cares about dorne or iron borne, keep them as flashbacks!!!! and then saved everybody time and money, and given us winds of winter directly.
EDIT: similarly someone should've stepped in and said STFU nobody wants blood and fire right now, write the silmarillion AFTER LOTR is published not before!!!! and technically jrr tolkien didn't finish silmarillion, his son did. GRRM should have been paying close attention.
There won't be new POV characters, the key locations they are planted at already have POV characters. Books 1-3 weren't that much tighter, book 1 maybe but as soon as book 2 came around the world expanded and other major houses got included in the game of thrones. It is only natural and organic that these houses actually affect the big picture. This was clear from very early on.
The original plan was to have a time skip indeed and i am sure not doing that anymore made it harder for him to finish the series. But the reason he decided against it was because of cersei, jon, dany, arya and sansa the people who were in power/training. It would have been too awkward to retell what happened in these years, the structure would have been broken. It is fine if you dislike it, but you didn't really bring in any real arguments. Though i would certainly agree that especially adwd could have used some editing, so it at least ends with the battles which will now start twow.
how many POVs in feast for crows did you care about? its been almost over a decade since i read it, but there were a bunch of iron born, brienne walking around on a pointless errand to find arya and sansa (the show had arya + hound which i thoroughly enjoyed), and some sand snakes. samwell gets laid. sansa was in it but like most people i hated her chapters and they were boring. i guess she was being tutored by littlefinger and was going to get good eventually? nothing happened in that book, other than a cliffhanger ending. brienne is about to be hung and says a word. what word was it? i dunno but she's alive in book 5. the entire book could've been cut and nobody would have missed out. what he did well in FFC is his world building. its clear he took great care in it. its too bad nobody liked it.
in book 5, which its been like 6 years since i've read was a little better. tyrion had great dialogue but again nothing happened. he should have already ended up at dany's doorstep before the book ended, then he could have helped dany extricate herself from mereen using his smarts. dany is a teenage hormonal girl who fan girls over who to sleep with. jon snow dies and its clear he will be brought back. iirc ramsay bolton and stannis are about to fight.
come to think of it, GRRM's books follow the same progression of quality of the show. books 1 - 3 awesome, book 4 bad, book 5, slightly less bad.
It is hard to argue with you when you don't give anythign to argue about, you basically just point out that you don't like it. Which is fine, saying that noone liked it is complete nonsense though, both audiences and critics enjoyed these books. AFFC is probably the richest book thematically and a bunch of things happen, both on the plot level and the character development level. The only real storyline i didn't care for was the brienne one, it mainly didn''t work that well because we know she is doomed to fail on her quest, but at the same time her chapters show us what war did to the land and its people, so even in this one there is something to appreciate. The way you present your case is just so simplistic and reductive that i have no real idea how to reply, "jon snow dies and its clear he will be brought back" , that is the only thing you got out of his storyline? Not the hardship of ruling (as the lord commander) and the struggle to stay true to his oath? I cannot wait to read the inner struggle after he is brought back in the books and how that mircale will affect everything around him, the show neglected this almost completely, it didn't affect him, there are no real conversations about it with anyone he cares for and it certainly didn't affect any subplots around this occurrence.
I think we really care about very different things in stories, sometimes it seems to me like other people only want to know the big plot points and that's it. It doesn't matter to them how the buildup is, if the characters develop, if there are themes, etc. After the show is over i am gonna reread all the books during a year or so, hopefully just in time for twow
Btw the answer to the word brienne screams was posted on the ice and fire forum after an interview with grrm + Show Spoiler +
so at miscon 2012, george r.r. martin read not one but two chapters from winds of winter!
he also answered a pressing and important question: what word did brienne of tarth scream in feast for crows?
anyway after he finished reading the chapters, he opened the floor to some discussion about the plot of asoiaf, and some amazing genius girl said: you know my friends and i were debating this pretty heavily in the lobby just today, brienne screams “one word” as she is being hung by lady stoneheart’s men in a feast for crows - what was the word?
george turned the question on the audience and asked if anyone had figured it out - we shouted all kinds of dumb stuff, “jaime”, “sapphires”, etc. but some other genius in the second row said “sword”!
george confirmed that the word brienne screamed was “sword”; lady stoneheart gave brienne the choice of either swearing her sword to her or being hung, saying “sword or noose”, and as brienne was being hung she screamed “sword”
the questions moved on for some time, but then a girl asked “well what about podrick payne? he was getting hung with brienne!” and george confirmed that brienne had made the decision to swear her sword to stoneheart in order to save the innocent podrick payne from the noose
On May 10 2019 01:36 sharkie wrote: Fishje inwas arguing the exact same point about Martin but its no use discussing that with some people in here. They see him as some sort of jesus who wrote a new bible. Martin could duplicate arya killing night king scene of the show and his fans would call it ingenious and perfect
If you have any better arguments than this religious angle, something which actually counters what we present when we argue in favor of the books, then pls present it. Noone even said anything about genius work so far, not at all, you are literally making shit up while not engaging actual conversation. It's annoying and makes me question if you are just trolling/acting in bad faith or actually incapable of doing any form of analysis.
On May 10 2019 02:08 fishjie wrote:
On May 10 2019 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: The plan didn't go to shit completely, they will just have another dragon they will support now. There are also other threads going on, the sandsnakes in the books are placed at key locations. We didn't see the full plan yet. Now you could say that martin shouldn't have expanded the story at this point, i could see that potentially, wouldn't agree with it though because the dornish and greyjoys are major houses, talked about before. Ofc they would be scheming their own plans.
In the show they simplified multiple major plotlines (cut them), never included countless minor ones, now you can be happy about that because it means a more straightforward path to the end, but it also means making the world small and removing what GoT was always about, scheming and politics while the end of humanity approaches from the north.
that's the problem though, that plan is just going to generate even more POV characters. books 1-3 were tight, and action packed. 4-5 were dragged down. again, this is because GRRM strength is world building and planting a character like a gardener and seeing where the character will go. although he has some big picture idea of how the story ends, he's finding it really difficult to get the characters from point A to point B with his writing style.
originally feast for crows and dance with dragons was supposed to be told in quick flashbacks in winds of winter. they weren't going to be standalone books. that's where a PM/TPM type role in a corporation should have stepped in, told him STFU no one cares about dorne or iron borne, keep them as flashbacks!!!! and then saved everybody time and money, and given us winds of winter directly.
EDIT: similarly someone should've stepped in and said STFU nobody wants blood and fire right now, write the silmarillion AFTER LOTR is published not before!!!! and technically jrr tolkien didn't finish silmarillion, his son did. GRRM should have been paying close attention.
There won't be new POV characters, the key locations they are planted at already have POV characters. Books 1-3 weren't that much tighter, book 1 maybe but as soon as book 2 came around the world expanded and other major houses got included in the game of thrones. It is only natural and organic that these houses actually affect the big picture. This was clear from very early on.
The original plan was to have a time skip indeed and i am sure not doing that anymore made it harder for him to finish the series. But the reason he decided against it was because of cersei, jon, dany, arya and sansa the people who were in power/training. It would have been too awkward to retell what happened in these years, the structure would have been broken. It is fine if you dislike it, but you didn't really bring in any real arguments. Though i would certainly agree that especially adwd could have used some editing, so it at least ends with the battles which will now start twow.
how many POVs in feast for crows did you care about? its been almost over a decade since i read it, but there were a bunch of iron born, brienne walking around on a pointless errand to find arya and sansa (the show had arya + hound which i thoroughly enjoyed), and some sand snakes. samwell gets laid. sansa was in it but like most people i hated her chapters and they were boring. i guess she was being tutored by littlefinger and was going to get good eventually? nothing happened in that book, other than a cliffhanger ending. brienne is about to be hung and says a word. what word was it? i dunno but she's alive in book 5. the entire book could've been cut and nobody would have missed out. what he did well in FFC is his world building. its clear he took great care in it. its too bad nobody liked it.
in book 5, which its been like 6 years since i've read was a little better. tyrion had great dialogue but again nothing happened. he should have already ended up at dany's doorstep before the book ended, then he could have helped dany extricate herself from mereen using his smarts. dany is a teenage hormonal girl who fan girls over who to sleep with. jon snow dies and its clear he will be brought back. iirc ramsay bolton and stannis are about to fight.
come to think of it, GRRM's books follow the same progression of quality of the show. books 1 - 3 awesome, book 4 bad, book 5, slightly less bad.
It is hard to argue with you when you don't give anythign to argue about, you basically just point out that you don't like it. Which is fine, saying that noone liked it is complete nonsense though, both audiences and critics enjoyed these books. AFFC is probably the richest book thematically and a bunch of things happen, both on the plot level and the character development level. The only real storyline i didn't care for was the brienne one, it mainly didn''t work that well because we know she is doomed to fail on her quest, but at the same time her chapters show us what war did to the land and its people, so even in this one there is something to appreciate. The way you present your case is just so simplistic and reductive that i have no real idea how to reply, "jon snow dies and its clear he will be brought back" , that is the only thing you got out of his storyline? Not the hardship of ruling (as the lord commander) and the struggle to stay true to his oath? I cannot wait to read the inner struggle after he is brought back in the books and how that mircale will affect everything around him, the show neglected this almost completely, it didn't affect him, there are no real conversations about it with anyone he cares for and it certainly didn't affect any subplots around this occurrence.
I think we really care about very different things in stories, sometimes it seems to me like other people only want to know the big plot points and that's it. It doesn't matter to them how the buildup is, if the characters develop, if there are themes, etc. After the show is over i am gonna reread all the books during a year or so, hopefully just in time for twow
AFFC is absolutely the best book and one that I think has a lot of important setup for how GRRM may want to reach the endgame is a much different manner.
On May 10 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote: Jamie leaves Kings Landing at the end of season 7, Cersei sends Bronn after him in episode 1? He gets there in episode 4. I don't actually see him as a horrible continuity breaking teleport.
A lot of 'teleporting' is just story telling without giving any indication of time passing which can make things really jarring.
It wasn't such a big deal in earlier seasons because there were enough story lines you got to see that time was assumed to have passed naturaly.
From person A to B to C to D back to A you assume time has passed for person A but now the story is jumping back to characters we just saw to quickly which breaks that feeling.
Like Eurons attack last episode, instead of going from Euron to the survivors getting out of the water and strait to Euron several hours later in King's Landing there needed to be 10 minutes of some other place in the world to allow time to pass, or put it on screen if you don't have enough happening to show in the meantime.
I think there's at least two things that make the teleporting seem pretty jarring.
One is the passing of time. There needs to be clear cut signals for the viewer on how things progress and when bigger skips happen and how the time has affected the characters and world and so on.
The other thing is that travelling is a serious commitment. Being visited by someone bears heavy weight in it. If it someone takes days or weeks to visit someone else, there better be consequences. If Bronn just appears suddenly, threatens the hand of the Queen and then disappears again without any proper consequences, it makes the travel commitment seem trivial.
On first reading, I enjoyed books 1-3 and thought books 4-5 were boring as hell.
On a re-read, I appreciated 4-5 a bit more, but I still much prefer the 3 others. Idk what Cricketer has smoked to say that AFFC is the best book. That's wild.
On May 10 2019 17:20 Laurens wrote: On first reading, I enjoyed books 1-3 and thought books 4-5 were boring as hell.
On a re-read, I appreciated 4-5 a bit more, but I still much prefer the 3 others. Idk what Cricketer has smoked to say that AFFC is the best book. That's wild.
AFFC is remarkably good on a reread. Because it focuses so much on the world, and on the first read through you're automatically more interested in the plot, you get frustrated at its plodding pace. But when rereading you already know the plot points and all the "irrelevant" details really create a great narrative.
I will also add my voice to those that enjoyed AFFC. I read it 3 times and enjoyed them all. Also enjoyed 2nd and 3rd read more as I knew there would be no important plot related things happening so I could enjoy all the rich details Martin puts into his books (something that has been missing a lot in the show since season 3 or 4). Only Season 1 truly felt like they cared about details, after that there was less and less.
And in other books when people complained how Jon wasted time counting food I enjoyed that as well. Such details are just as important when making a believable character as are major plot points.
is anyone able to recommend me an adventure book ?
i don't know about these big world-building books...
i read Dragonlance book 1 , Sword of Shinara, and Gemmel's Winter Warriors
so my kinda thing is a small group of lads on an adventure together. those 3 books are literally 3-5 blokes on an adventure quest LoTR style , warrior, wizard, thief, etc
(also i read almost all Discworld books. that's pretty much all i ever read plus those 3 adventure books)
can anyone recommend me something like those? thanks
EPT
