EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1660
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
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Nesserev
Belgium2760 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Well yeah. If Cersei and Jaime can have another wincest baby, I don't see why Jon can't fuck his exhibitionist aunt. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
On August 15 2017 06:20 Cricketer12 wrote: Yes. A Shireen-loving Stannis would be alive  Well the storylines could have been included in S6 where jon and stannis + wildlings attack winterfell together. It's just really hard to see any type of plots or character introduction that had relevance and couldn't easily be implemented elsewhere. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
I think Stannis’s end is fine. I like his plot line and leaving behind people like Davos to support a better king. As the end of a season, where they also kill Jon Snow, terrible episode. Stannis is a victim of being so close to one of the weirdest plot points in Martin’s writing, killing Jon Snow when it is so clear that someone is going to bring him back from the dead. It's ok, I don't hate it either, but overall it just like a bit meh... Like what impact did Stannis have? We saw him to the Iron bank to get mercanaries and it ended out with no plot relevance. And while I don't believe in a stream-lined plot, I believe that a character - who gets alot of air time - should have a major impact on the plot in one way or the other. And his faith would have been the same (died in battle) if he had allied him self with Jon Snow on the attack on winterfell. I guess he beat the wildlings in S4, however would their faith have been noticeably different giving that Jon Snow let them pass the wall 1 season later? That storyline could probably have played out somewhat similarly without Stannis being there. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1944 Posts
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Denmark9390 Posts
On August 15 2017 06:36 Plansix wrote: Stannis is one of the more interesting plot lines because it feeds into the overall tone story that none of our options for king are good. Robb is foolish and care more about honor than assuring his people have allies. Stannis is a man hell bent on winning at all costs, but also cares about order. This show sort of has two themes: the no one should sit on the Iron thrown, and how parents impact their children. And like another show, breaking bad, we start to get into cheer for the main character to win at all costs, even though its terrible. People saying that the best solution is to burn the red keep is a prime example of this. It would end the war, but another war would crop up in 10 or 20 years. And Dany has realized that how you come to power matters almost as much as winning, even if the audience has sort forgotten that over the seasons. Yes, however most of those storyliens are relatively fast-paced... Or at least they take place in S2-S3. Stannis is defeated in S2, slowly rebuilds and at the end S5 he dies without having had any impact on the other plot lines for 3 seasons. And then we see a similar battle taking place at the same time one season later. But yes I do agree that I love the story about Stannis. Someone who feels he is destined to be king, however what I don't like about it is how much his story dragged on just to end in a meh'ish way, whereas I believe his death/ending could have been more interesting if it was merged together in the battle with jon snow. It just seemed unnecasary to split those battles into two parts. Assuming S5 was scrapped, we could have had Hardhome in early S6 and the battle of the north later in episode 9 and the plot would have worked out just fine. | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On August 15 2017 06:40 Broetchenholer wrote: Considering how they ended their houses, they could have cut Dorne out completely, they could have cout out half of the Tyrells storyline, they could have cut out the ironborne story beside Reek and the show would not have suffered more then it actually did. The problem is that they wrote themselves into a corner when they commited to writing season 5-6 and now 7 and 8 themselves cause their own plotlines are so weak. They tried to copy the style of Martin and they failed and now they try to just finish it with what they are capable of so we get teleporting and random fanservice + forced drama. It does seem a bit jumbled with some of the plot lines where they seem on the fence about whether to follow what Martin has laid out or what they think will be good and will fit into the show. Euron is a weird one now, like it's really hard to imagine the impact he's going to have on the plot going forward other than his own sub plot with his family. At the same time his impact on the Unsullied seem like it should be minimal, they got stranded but Dany's raid on the mainland should have sent the Lannister's packing to defensive positions and they've had months now to march their way back towards Dany. So it's hard to see what exactly he's getting done this season that will have an impact going forward. Stannis is ... eh. I like the arc I guess, but hated the details. His betrayal of Shireen seemed really out of place for his character and it didn't feel properly forced by the narrative. It wasn't entirely like his back was to the wall but instead he was just like, "screw it, burn her and lets finish this crap". Stannis was way more interesting than his ending I thought, the ending felt like him becoming a bit one dimensional. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
It does seem a bit jumbled with some of the plot lines where they seem on the fence about whether to follow what Martin has laid out or what they think will be good and will fit into the show. I am still quite convinced that they were going to follow Dorne's plot in a somewhat similar fashion to the book when they wrote it in S5. But it became clear that they changed their mind and scrapped the idea while writing S6. I think they were right in abanding the books becasue they are a mess after the first 3. Their mistake was instead that they were one season too late in doing that. His betrayal of Shireen seemed really out of place for his character and it didn't feel properly forced by the narrative. It wasn't entirely like his back was to the wall but instead he was just like, "screw it, burn her and lets finish this crap". Stannis was way more interesting than his ending I thought, the ending felt like him becoming a bit one dimensional. I don't really have a strong opinion here. On one hand killing Shireen is one of the GRRM-type of stories that I like in the sense that it's shocking, but in a somewhat believeable manner based on what we know of the character. Because he would do everything to be King - apparently sacrificing his own daughter. But towards the end when he died, I was neither emotionally super upset (as The red wedding/ned stark heading/oberyn death) but neither super excited either. It was just a meh-ending to a meh-season. And hence why I probably would have prefered if he had died a more "heroic" death fighting with jon snow. Perhaps that's a bit more clichee-based, but I would have enjoyed it more. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I agree though that there is no way they planned the storyline the way it was, because that was basically nothing and actually a "mess". I still think following the books more closely where possible would have achieved a way better story, yes you have to make cuts here and there but that's not a legit reasoning to give them a free pass for everything ever. I don't think book 4 and 5 are bad though, so maybe i am biased  | ||
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United States7542 Posts
Like if Stannis was Renly's younger brother he would have fought at his side without hesitation and if Joffery wasn't an illegitimate bastard he would have served his new king faithfully. The only things he seemed to have any emotion for were Shireen, the Red Lady, and Davos' friendship. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1944 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Edit: I am 100% sure Shireen dies in the books. That is the arc of Stannis, the Iron King. In the end he is just a different flavor of monster. Just like his brother, who tried to kill Dany when she was a baby just to assure control of the throne. | ||
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
I looked away for like 10 seconds and suddenly everything took a 180 turn rofl. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
they could have cut out the ironborne story beside Reek and the show would not have suffered more then it actually did. In the alternative GOT-writing where the Martells and the Tyrells are merged into one family, Theon could have been a Frey. Theon was sent to negotiate with the Frey, but betrays the Stark and the red wedding happens (theon isn't directly told about this though). Euron could also just have been a Frey son who kills his father. This would have made the Frey more relevant throughout all seasons rather than bringing them in and out. | ||
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moktira
Ireland1543 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [My theory] + This is my highly speculative theory that I don't really believe. It's now been almost confirmed that Jon is the son of a Targ (fire) and a Stark (ice). However he has also been killed and brought back by fire. Now he's going north of the wall and perhaps this time in a dramatic penultimate episode he'll be killed and then in the final episode be brought back by ice and thus become a total harmony of ice and fire. Somehow he'll interact with the Night's King and then have to deal with balancing his goals (maybe conquering by ice) and Dany's goals of conquering by fire. I don't believe the show runners would do that or kill Jon again really but it's just what makes sense to me. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
On August 15 2017 07:05 The_Red_Viper wrote: I don't see how s5 dorne was somewhat similar to the books tbh. Also without a certain other character it was almost impossible to be similar, even more so because they cut Doran's other two children. I agree though that there is no way they planned the storyline the way it was, because that was basically nothing and actually a "mess". I still think following the books more closely where possible would have achieved a way better story, yes you have to make cuts here and there but that's not a legit reasoning to give them a free pass for everything ever. I don't think book 4 and 5 are bad though, so maybe i am biased It was similar in the sense that Doran Martell didn't want to start a dumb-war but had an alternative plan for revenge. I don't think book 4 and 5 are bad though, so maybe i am biased I am sure you came by reading all of those Brienne chapters. | ||
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Denmark9390 Posts
I never got the impression that Stannis would do anything for power. To me it's more that he's like... really authoritarian-ish? Like he's the rightful king so he should be king, that it's not necessarily a matter of want for him, he's the king and so he should be king. It wasn't that he lusted for power, it was that it was by rights his and so it should be. Then on top of that with the Red Lady's influence was a pushing force to make it happen and compel him to view the unsavory bits as justified in the name of saving the 7 kingdoms. Power itself wasn't what he wanted. However, he clearly was a whatever-it-takes guy. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
Is this just books or was this mentioned in the show at all? | ||
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